There was a series of WT articles from around 1990-1991 on Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, etc. which presented them in a very positive light and did not portray them as apostates, denying (dishonestly) that these same writers believed in the deity of Christ. So they are quite ambiguous on when the "apostasy" supposedly took place.
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
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Do the WT authors consider the early church fathers to have been apostates?
by True North indo the wt authors consider the early church fathers to have been apostates?
i seem to have a vague recollection that they do.
however, they don't seem to have a problem reading and selectively quoting or citing from their writings which would then be the writings of apostates.
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Passover vs Last Supper
by undercover inafter reading of shotgun's experience with the elders and the argument about the events of the night of the last supper, i did some research about the events surrounding jesus' last couple of days.. in true wts fashion, the gb has taken an event, despite all the controversy surrounding it, and has decreed in blanket statements, "facts" of jesus last meal and exactly what happened, all without any question that it didn't happen any other way.
to read a watchtower, it's quite simple what happened.
jesus told the disciples to prepare for passover, they ate passover, jesus exposed judas, judas left and jesus instituted the memorial.
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Leolaia
Please note my contribution to the Shotgun shootout thread....
Shotgun.....Your intuitions are correct. The Eucharist, which is Greek for "giving thanks", is derived not from the Passover seder but from the sabbatical meals held just before the Sabbath starts and on the noon of the Sabbath, which were also held on the eve of the Passover, exactly as described in John. Here is an excerpt from the Jewish Encyclopedia on the subject:
The Sabbath and Holy-Day Meals: These, which in later times assumed the character of simple family repasts permeated by the spirit of genuine domesticity, were originally Banquets of the Pharisaic brotherhood, enlivened by song and discussions, at which the men reclined; the women and children?if they took part at all?not being considered as among the number present. Wine at the opening and closing of the meal was deemed an indispensable feature; over it the benediction and a blessing of sanctification of the day were offered by the one who presided at the table and broke the bread. Perfumes and ointments as well as a variety of dishes were characteristics of these meals, to the preparation of which some would devote a whole week (Ber. viii. 5; Tos. Ber. vi. 5; Tos. Bezah, ii. 13, 14; Bezah 16a; Pes. R. xxiii.; Geiger, "Urschrift," p. 123; idem, "Jüd. Zeit." iv. 105 et seq. ). These Banquets might not be held, however, at the time of the public discourses. "Two great families held such on Saobath eve and Saturday noon at such an improper time, and were exterminated for such transgression" (Git. 38b). Three meals are prescribed for the Sabbath; one on the preceding evening; another at noon (to which some add a breakfast in the forenoon); and the third in the late afternoon (Shab. 117b et seq. ). The Passover-eve meal also, although eminently a family feast, perhaps as early as Mishnaic times (Pes. x. 4), had originally the character of a banquet, at which the Pharisaic brothers sat together eating and drinking, singing hymns, and reciting or expounding chapters from Holy Scripture, as may be learned from the Pesah Haggadah and the New Testament story of the last supper (Matt. xxvi. and parallels).
Thus, if the Eucharist was a continuation of this Jewish practice, it was done every week. And there is direct evidence of this. The late first century A.D. catecism of the Didache says: "On the Lord's day gather together and break bread and give thanks, having first confessed your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 14:1), and a few chapters earlier are given instructions of how to give the thanksgiving of the Eucharist with the bread and wine (9:1-5). It also related fasting to be done on Wednesdays and Fridays right before the mention of the Eucharist, again suggesting a weekly observance (8:1). The expression "Lord's Day" means the Sabbath in Isaiah 58:13 (LXX) and possibly in Revelation 1:10, Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath" in Mark 2:28, and Ignatius of Antioch (writing c. A.D. 117) refered to Christians as "no longer keeping the Sabbath but living in accordance with the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through him" (Magnesians 9:1). This text suggests that the expression "Lord's Day" shifted early on from the Sabbath to Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection. The importance of this day is noted as early as in 1 Corinthians 16:2 which designated "the first day of every week" as including the collection of gifts in worship services, and Acts 20:7 even mentions a service "on the first day of the week" when the Christians "came together to break bread," suggesting possibly a Sunday Eucharist service (tho this is not certain). Even Pliny the Elder noted that Christians assembled together "on a fixed day (stato die)" (Epistolae 10.96). Barnabas 15:9 (early second century A.D.) similarly says that "we spend the eighth day in celebration, the day on which Jesus both arose from the dead and, after appearing again, ascended into heaven". It would not be unreasonable that the Eucharist was part of these weekly gatherings on the "fixed day". Later sources (late second century A.D.) show that the "Lord's Day" was clearly established as Sunday; the Acts of Peter called the "Lord's Day" (dies dominica) "the next day after the Sabbath," and the Acts of Paul referred to praying "on the Sabbath as the Lord's Day drew near" (cf. Act Verc. 29). But regardless of whether the "Lord's Day" fell on a Saturday or Sunday, it is clear that the Didache described a weekly observance of the Eucharist. And Justin Martyr (c. A.D. 155), echoing the same thought in Barnabas, also designated Sunday as the day the Eucharist was partaken every week:
"Hence God speaks by the mouth of Malachi, one of the twelve [prophets], as I said before, about the sacrifices at that time presented by you: 'I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord; and I will not accept your sacrifices at your hands: for, from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, My name has been glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure offering: for My name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord: but ye profane it.' He then speaks of those Gentiles, namely us, who in every place offer sacrifices to Him, i.e., the bread of the Eucharist, and also the cup of the Eucharist, affirming both that we glorify His name, and that you profane . The command of circumcision, again, bidding [them] always circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision, by which we are circumcised from deceit and iniquity through Him who rose from the dead on the first day after the Sabbath, [namely through] our Lord Jesus Christ. For the first day after the Sabbath, remaining the first of all the days, is called, however, the eighth, according to the number of all the days of the cycle, and [yet] remains the first." (Dialogue with Trypho, 41)
Hope this helps!
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Gilgamesh mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls
by Leolaia inin prior posts, i discussed how older ane material from canaanite and sumerian/akkadian tradition can survive quite late.
in 1 enoch, for example, we see how a famed rephaim from canaanite epic poetry, the wise judge danel (cf.
ktu 1.17-19), mentioned in ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3, was recast as a fallen angel in 1 enoch 6:7, 69:2 (see [1] for discussion), and how the stories of enoch's journey to the ends of the earth and into the underworld mimic that from the epic of gilgamesh (cf.
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Leolaia
Narkissos....There's also the two brothers Shalem and Shahar, the gluttonous "gracious gods" of Ugaritic myth. But re Jacob and Esau, note that Genesis 25:27 reads: "And the boys grew, and Esau was a cunning hunter (sayid), a man of the field (sadeh), and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents". There's some wordplay here between sayid and sadeh, and note that sayid is the root for "Sidon," the Phoenician capital, and sayid is used for fishing as well as hunting in Hebrew (cf. Ecclesiastes 9:12), and according to Justinus, the Phoenicians referred to sidon in "fishing" ("a piscium ubertate, nam piscem Phoenices sidon vocant", Progus Pompeius 18.3.4). The midrash of R. Abbahu on Genesis 25:27 also evokes the name of the city ("seidon sodani", Gen. R. 63:10), and Raba, resident of "the City," or Mahoza, nicknames Papa, who lived in the townlet of Naresh, as sodani (b. Ber. 44b; b. Men 71a, b. Niddah 12a, b). Philo of Byblos mentions two brothers, Sidon and Poseidon who were grandsons of Kronos (= El), and the rhyming pair evokes that of Heyya and Aheyya, and Poseidon, the god of the sea, is likely derived from Sidon, the enoymous ancestor of the port city of Sidon, where fishermen set out. It's hard to say, of course, what the real links are (if any) between the biblical story and that of the Phoenician history (perhaps none at all), but it is interesting noting the coincidences.
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Proof Dubya is a Neanderthal
by Leolaia inproof george w. bush is a neanderthal
also check out this site for a good chuckle: .
http://www.bushorchimp.com/
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Leolaia
Proof George W. Bush is a Neanderthal
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Also check out this site for a good chuckle:
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Is Jesus inferior because he is called a servant ?
by hooberus in"the followers of jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant of god, not as god's equal.
they prayed to god about "thy holy servant jesus, whom thou didst anoint, .
and signs and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant jesus.
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Leolaia
The WTS conflates subordination in role with subordination in nature. The latter would imply that regardless of role the Son is always subordinated to the Father, while the former implies that the Son submits to the Father as a function of his role. Acts 4:23, 27, 30 do not present a theological statement on Jesus' nature but rather mention his servanthood in relation to his role as Messiah and Christ (e.g. being annointed, performing signs and wonders, etc.). Thus they do not establish subordinate nature apart from Jesus' role. Philippians 2:7 connects Jesus servanthood explicitly with his incarnation. As far as statements of nature are concerned, Hebrews 1:3 says that the Son is "the exact representation of [God's] nature," thus equal in nature, and Philippians 2:6 designates his pre-incarnation nature as being "equal to God". Although different points of view are being expressed in the NT, it is clear that subordination in role cannot simply be equated with subordination in nature as an exegetical principle. The kenotic conception in Philippians of course raises all sorts of questions about how the Son's servanthood nature is to be conceived.
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Gilgamesh mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls
by Leolaia inin prior posts, i discussed how older ane material from canaanite and sumerian/akkadian tradition can survive quite late.
in 1 enoch, for example, we see how a famed rephaim from canaanite epic poetry, the wise judge danel (cf.
ktu 1.17-19), mentioned in ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3, was recast as a fallen angel in 1 enoch 6:7, 69:2 (see [1] for discussion), and how the stories of enoch's journey to the ends of the earth and into the underworld mimic that from the epic of gilgamesh (cf.
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Leolaia
Patio.....There's lots of interesting connections I've found in my research between biblical materials and ANE mythologies, as you may note from my posts on the subject, and if you haven't yet see them, there's a number of recent posts in the archives. I've got a lot of new fantastic stuff, btw, on the primeval traditions of Genesis that I'll try to post sometime in the near future (the Canaanite background of the Garden of Eden story is just amazing). I worry that the highlighting might clutter up my posts too much, but they really help me find the important points and parallels too.
Nilfun.... Tiny bubbles, tiny bubbles....
Ese....Boring. You should look at Shotgun's shootout posts. The elders try to deflect attention away from the info being presented to their imagined perception of the author's motives. Your thinking seems to not be much different.
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All About The Trinity
by UnDisfellowshipped inwhen jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.
the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.
the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).
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Leolaia
LittleToe....Some days I think my brain is gonna explode....
UnDisfellowshipped: I love your very simple refutation.... Shows that the concept of multiplication (i.e. 1 x 1 = 1) was not that unknown to the ancients (e.g. 1 man x 1 woman = 1 flesh). As I just said in one of the other Trinity threads, addition is totally wrong to begin with because it assumes a division between the things being counted, while the Trinity (as Tertullian put it) expresses distinction without division.
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Gilgamesh mentioned in the Dead Sea Scrolls
by Leolaia inin prior posts, i discussed how older ane material from canaanite and sumerian/akkadian tradition can survive quite late.
in 1 enoch, for example, we see how a famed rephaim from canaanite epic poetry, the wise judge danel (cf.
ktu 1.17-19), mentioned in ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3, was recast as a fallen angel in 1 enoch 6:7, 69:2 (see [1] for discussion), and how the stories of enoch's journey to the ends of the earth and into the underworld mimic that from the epic of gilgamesh (cf.
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Leolaia
In prior posts, I discussed how older ANE material from Canaanite and Sumerian/Akkadian tradition can survive quite late. In 1 Enoch, for example, we see how a famed Rephaim from Canaanite epic poetry, the wise judge Danel (cf. KTU 1.17-19), mentioned in Ezekiel 14:12-20, 28:1-3, was recast as a fallen angel in 1 Enoch 6:7, 69:2 (see [1] for discussion), and how the stories of Enoch's journey to the ends of the earth and into the underworld mimic that from the Epic of Gilgamesh (cf. 1 Enoch 17-19, 24-25, 33-35; Epic of Gilgamesh, Tablets 9-11; see [2] for discussion). The Enochian literature could be thought of as a rich resevoir of older traditions, reused and reformulated in a new synthesis. A number of different copies of 1 Enoch in the original Aramaic were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls (most from the first century BC), but the Qumran material also contained Enochian works not otherwise included in 1, 2, 3 Enoch, Jubilees, or other previously-known texts. The most important of these is the Book of Giants, which retells the part of 1 Enoch and Genesis 6 that describes the rebellion of the angels and the origin of the Nephilim (~ the Rephaim), especially the two children of Semijaza, the leader of the wicked angels, named Ohya and Hahya.
The book exists only in fragments but it is possible to reconstruct the story. After the descent of the angels to intermarry with human women, "sin was great in the earth" and the angels "killed many" of the children of men (1Q 23 9/14/15:3-4). They begat giants who consumed "everything that the earth produced ... and all kinds of grain and all the trees" (4 Q531 3:12-15), a description reminiscent of the giants in 1 Enoch 7:3 which says they "consumed the produce of all the people until the people detested feeding them". This motif is reminiscent of the Bull of Heaven in the Epic of Gilgamesh, who "drank the water of the river in great slurps, with each slurp it used up one mile of the river... it devoured the pasture and stripped the land bare, it broke up the palm trees of Uruk, as it bent them to fit them into its mouth" (Gilgamesh and the Bull of Heaven, Nippur MSS. Seg. A-D). But the motif is especially linked to the myth of the gracious gods of Shahar and Shalem in Canaanite myth (cf. KTU 1.23), the sons of El who were "both gluttonous from birth" and "there entered into their mouths the birds of the air and the fish from the sea, and wandering abroad, they put things from both their right and their left into their mouths, and were not satisfied" (KTU 1.23 v 60-64). Like the later Jewish legend of Lilith and possibly Behemoth, they were cast out from the divine presence and "roamed the edge of the desert" (65-70), and Psalm 82:1-7 and Isaiah 14:12-15 mentions the Shaharim and the "son of Shahar" who were cast from heaven to the earth/underworld. The Book of Giants goes on to describe the zoophilia between the giants and the beasts of the earth (1Q 23 1/6:1-5; cf. 1 Enoch 7:5-6), and the outcome of the demonic corruption was violence, perversion, and monstrous beings born from the unnatural acts between the giants and beasts (4Q 531 2:1-8; 4Q 532 1-6:2-8). But the giants began to have dreams and visions. Mahway, the Nephilim son of the angel Barak'el (cf. 1 Enoch 6:7), was the first the relate his troubling dreams to the other giants. He had a vision of the giants' future punishment, that "we shall die together and be made an end of" (4Q 530 7:4). Ohya and Hahya discuss the dream with Mahway, and one of the brothers says: "It is not for us but for Azazel ... we were not the ones cast down" (4 Q530 7:5-7).
This story actually survived independently in later rabbinical and Islamic legend, which help to shed light on the fragmentary text. In the cycle of legends on the fallen angels (Yalkut Genesis 44, Abkir Midrash), there survived a curious story about the first children born from the alliance with the daughters of men, two brothers named Heyya and Aheyya. These names are obviously the same as Hahya and Ohya from the far older Book of Giants. These lusty giants consumed daily a thousand camels, a thousand horses, and a thousand steers. With his sons having such a stake in the livestock of the world, the angelic father of the lads was disturbed that God had resolved to destroy all flesh. If a flood is to come upon the earth, where will the two brothers find they daily meat? Then the two lads begin to have frightening dreams. One saw lines upon lines of writing obliterated, until but four letters were left intact. The other dreamed of an orchard in which all the trees were cut down, and only a single tree survived with three of its branches. This last dream is related in fragmentary form in the Book of Giants. Ohya's dream vision is of a tree that is uprooted except for three of its roots (6Q 8 2:1-3). From their father the two brothers learned the meaning of their dreams:
"He told them, 'God is about to bring a flood upon the earth, to destroy it, so that there will remain one man and his three sons'. The brothers thereupon cried in anguish, and wept, saying, 'What shall become of us, and how shall our names be perpetuated?' 'Do not trouble yourselves about your names. Heyya and Aheyya will never cease from the mouths of creatures, because every time that men raise heavy stones, or ships, or any heavy load or burden, they will sigh and call your names'. With this his sons were satisfied" (Yalkut Genesis 44).
The concern for their names recalls how the Nephilim were "the heroes of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:4), with shem "name" being the Hebrew word for "renown". Obviously the story is meaningful only if mariners and masons could be heard swearing and cheering each other by something that sounded like Heyya and Aheyya. That this was actually the case with seamen, we learn from Pesahim 112b which says: 'The sailor's cry is 'heyya! heyya!' ". Perhaps grunts from the lifting of stones and the labor of masons was also connected with the names. But name Heyya or Hahya is also a probable survival of Canaanite mythology. We learn in 1 Enoch 7:1-2 and 8:1-4 that the fallen angels were the ones who taught civlization to humanity, or at least matters such as medicine, botany, metallurgy, the making of ornaments, astrology, etc. The primeval history of Philo of Byblos presents a similar story, designating the gods as the discoverers of the necessities of life. Philo calls the first intelligent beings Zophesemin or "Seers of Heaven," which directly recalls the name "Watchers" given to the angels in 1 Enoch, Jubilees, Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, and Daniel (4:13, 17, 23). Among these benefactors of humanity are Agreus and Halieus, the inventors of hunting and fishing, and then the story of their children is told:
"From them were born two brothers, discoverers of iron and the mode of working it. One of them, Khousor, was skilled in words, incantations, and divinations. It is he who was Hephaestus, and invented the hook and bait, and line, and raft, and was the first of all men to navigate, thus he was worshipped as a god after his death, and was also called Zeus Meilichios. And some say that his brother devised the way of making walls from stone blocks" (Philo of Byblos, Phoenician History, Ev. Praep. I 10.35).
Here we have two brothers just like Heyya and Aheyya, connected with sailing and masonry, just like the two Nephilim from Jewish legend. The reference to Khousor being a "discoverer or iron and the mode of working it" and being "skilled in words, incantations, and divinations" recalls exactly the Enochian legend of the fallen angels: "And they taught them magical medicine, incantations.... Azazel taught the people the art of making swords and knives... Amasras taught incantation and the cutting of roots, and Armaros the resolving of incantations" (1 Enoch 7:1, 8:1, 3). As inventors of iron tools, the two brothers made stonecutting and shipbuilding possible. Now the name Zeus Meilichios derives from Aramaic mallachim "sailors" and likely Khousor was venerated by sailors as the "Zeus of the sailors", being the first to travel by water. As for the name Khousor, this is universally regarded as a Hellenistic version of Canaanite Kothar (pronounced "Koshar" in later Semitic, cf. Athtart < Astarte, Athirat < Asherah, etc.), who was the craftsman-god who like Hephaestus crafted weapons for Baal, Anat, Aqhat, and others. Kothar's occupation closely recalls that of Azazel in 1 Enoch. Now in the Ugaritic texts, Kothar is also called Hayin (cf. KTU 1.3 vi 20; KTU 1.17 v 19, 33-34), an epithet meaning "deft, skilled" (cf. Arabic hayyin "easy") which like his other epithet Hasis reflects one of his professional qualities. In fact, in the Targum to Proverbs 28:16, Aramaic hawna' "ability, strength" translates tebuna "understanding," one of the qualities of the human craftsman Bezalel in Exodus 30:3, who made the furnishings for the tabernacle. In the Baal Epic, Kothar builds the divine abode for Baal, a duty paralleled by Bezalel. In short, we see that Hayin is one of the names of the craftsman god that lay behind the legend reported by Philo of Byblos, a legend that also resembles that of Heyya in the Book of Giants and in later Jewish midrash. But who was Khousor's brother in the Ugaritic version? Possibly "Hasis", usually hyphenated with Kothar as Kothar-and-Hasis in the Ugaritic texts, was the basis by which popular fancy later made into the eponymous hero of masons (via a hypostasis of Kothar), a task again recalled by Kothar's role in building Baal's palace. The name Aheyya in the midrash and the Book of Giants would have then been freely invented by the rabbis from Heyya, as a pair of pendent names like Eldad and Modad, Hillek and Billek, and so forth, Orioch and Marioch from 2 Enoch, and continued in Islamic tradition with names like Harun and Karun for Aaron and Korah, Habil and Qabil for Abel and Kain, and so forth.
But there is another name in the Book of Noah that derives from ancient ANE tradition. After Ohya, Hahya, and Mahway discuss each other's dreams, another giant speaks up: Gilgamesh. He begins his speech:
"[I am] a giant, and by the mighty strength of my arm and my own great strength [I can vanquish] anyone mortal, and I have made war against them; but I am not [...] able to stand against them, for my opponents reside in Heaven, and they dwell in holy places. And not [... they] are stronger than I. [...] of the wild beast has come, and the wild man they call me." (4Q 531 1:3-8)
Those familiar with the second-millenium BC Epic of Gilgamesh can note a few close similarities here. The king Gilgamesh was a demi-god like the giants, endowed with mighty strength and virtue: "Two-thirds of him is god, one-third of him is human.... Like a wild bull he makes himself mighty, head raised (over others). There is no rival who can raise his weapon against him. ... You have indeed brought into being a mighty wild bull, head raised! There is no rival who can raise a weapon against him" (Epic of Gilgamesh, Tablet 1). However, Gilgamesh's enemies are those in heaven, the gods, who beseech Aruru to create a human enemy for Gilgamesh, intended to be superior in power, so the gods may have peace. Enkidu is created specifically as a "wild man", living with the beasts of the field, but he is civilized by his harlot lover, and he tells her, "I am the mighty one! Lead me in and I will change the order of things!" Then, like the giants that Gilgamesh converses with in the Book of Giants, Gilgamesh receives symbolic dream-visions of what was to come. He dreams of a giant meteorite that falls from heaven and everyone in Uruk kissing it. His mother tells him: "There will come to you a mighty man, a comrade who saves his friend -- he is the mightiest in the land, he is strongest, his strength is mighty as the meteorite of Anu!" (ibid.).
Back to the Book of Giants story, Ohya goes back to the other giants and "told them what Gilgamesh said to him", but stuck to his belief that the judgment only relates to the demon Azazel and perhaps the other fallen angels...thus "the giants were glad at his words. Then he turned and left" (4 Q530 2:1-3). But more dreams began to afflict the giants, and the visions terrified them: "Thereupon two of them had dreams and the sleep of their eyes fled from them, and they arose and came to [...] and told their dreams," and described "monsters", gardeners watering "two hundred trees", large shoots coming out from the water, and a fire burning up the entire garden (4 Q530 2:3-10). Ohya had another dream about "the Ruler of Heaven coming down to earth" (2:13). The giants were unable to interpret the dreams themselves, and so they called on Enoch, "the noted scribe", to interpret the dream for them. Here Enoch figures in the story just like Daniel or Joseph in their respective stories. Then Mahway flew to Enoch as on the "wings of an eagle" (cf. like the Sumerian myth of Etana?), past the "great desert" and "Desolation", and "Enoch saw him and hailed him," and Mahway proceeded to tell him the visions (3:2-11). Enoch sends back a tablet "in his very handwriting" with a grim message of judgment to "Semijaza and all his companions", condemning them, their wives, their sons, and the wives of their sons, for "all the things you have done ... by your licentiousness on the earth", and announcing the coming of Raphael who will bring "destruction" to all living things, "and whatever is in the deserts and the seas" (4Q 530 f2:1-15). And that is where the text pretty much leaves off.
But as these many examples suggest, Akkadian and Canaanite legends persisted for some time in Judea under a new guise, altered but still recognizable in some form.
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How is a "real" christian to view the custom of "April fool"?
by mineralogist in.
so here is a really sincere topic and out of my stomach i'd say it is just something pagan and such and such .... but - do any of you know about a teaching of the wts?.
and as this is some funmust be something to discourage jws of doing it.
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Leolaia
From what I've read, it has to do with the change to the Gregorian calendar:
In 1582, Pope Gregory XIII ordered a new calendar (the Gregorian Calendar ) to replace the old Julian Calendar. The new calendar called for New Year's Day to be celebrated Jan. 1. Many countries, however, resisted the change. In fact, some European countries held out for centuries (Scotland until 1660; Germany, Denmark, and Norway until 1700; and England until 1752). In 1564 France adopted the reformed calendar and shifted New Year's day to Jan. 1. However, many people either refused to accept the new date, or did not learn about it, and continued to celebrate New Year's Day April 1. Other people began to make fun of these traditionalists, sending them on "fool's errands" or trying to trick them into believing something false.
So you see, an April Fool is someone who celebrates New Year's Day in April. So the WTS could condemn April Fool's Day because it had its origin in the pagan New Year's Day holiday.....Ka-ching!
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I played tennis last night and.................
by desib77 ini suck at it.
i don't even know how to keep score.
anyone else play?
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Leolaia
I used to date someone who taught me tennis but we broke up and I haven't played since. I loved the game. I also like ping-pong a lot. I hate most sports, but I love those two games.