Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

30

"Millions Now Living Will Never Die," Predicted the Watctower before 1914.

by Scott77 in

predicted the watctower falsely predicted before 1914 that,"millions now living will never die" before 1914. its now a year before we hit 100 years mark.

was god's or god's holy spirit guiding them when they falsely predicted that prophesy?

what is your reaction or perspective on this big lie?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

The following quotes show the continued dishonesty of the Watchtower Society in the following years by downplaying the sugnificance of the "Millions" campaign. 1925 was prophesied as being "God's date", and would bring Armageddon and the resurrection of the "ancient worthies" who would live at Beth Sarim. Note that when 1925 failed, the same events were predicted for 1932:

*** jv chap. 12 p. 161 The Great Crowd to Live in Heaven? Or on Earth? ***

They also thought that perhaps — just perhaps — the "ancient worthies" who would serve as princes on the earth during the millennial era would, at the end of that time, somehow be granted heavenly life

This quote is completely dishonest. It makes it appear that this teaching was mere speculation with no definiteness to it. Compare what was really said:

"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89)

...other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favor, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men and Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth." (Millions now living will never die, 1920 p 89-90)

"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)

"The period must end in 1925. The type ending, the antitype must begin; and therefore 1925 is definitely fixed in the scriptures. Every thinking person can see that a great climax is at hand. The Scriptures clearly indicate

"This chronology is not of man but of God . . . of divine origin . . . absolutely and unqualifiedly correct." --Watchtower 7/15/1922, p.217

Notice how this WT makes it sound as if the Watchtower Society had nothing to do with that false prophecy, and indirectly, passed the blame onto Jehovah's Witnesses in general.

"They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom".Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class, and this made the proud "elective elder" crowd very mad." (Watchtower Feb. 15, 1938 p. 54)

30

"Millions Now Living Will Never Die," Predicted the Watctower before 1914.

by Scott77 in

predicted the watctower falsely predicted before 1914 that,"millions now living will never die" before 1914. its now a year before we hit 100 years mark.

was god's or god's holy spirit guiding them when they falsely predicted that prophesy?

what is your reaction or perspective on this big lie?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

The original title of Rutherford's talk was, "Millions Now Living Will Never Die".

When that false promise/false prophecy failed, the Watchtower began to revise the title in later publications to say, "Millions Now Living May Never Die".

If you look on page 163 of the "Proclaimers" book (Jv) you can see copies of the original advertisements for that talk. It says, "Millions Now Living Will Never Die".

The Watchtower has lied about the original title in order to hide the fact that Rutherford's promise, and that campaign, was a false prophecy. Following are several quotes from WT literature showing the original title and the revised title- the cover up:

*** w09 7/15 p. 24 Ninety Years Ago I Began to ‘Remember My Grand Creator’ ***

Ninety Years Ago I Began to ‘Remember My Grand Creator’

As told by Edwin Ridgwell

ON Armistice Day, November 11, 1918, children at my school were unexpectedly assembled to celebrate the end of the Great War, later called World War I. I was only five years old and did not fully understand the occasion. Still, I knew from what my parents had taught me about God that I did not want to be part of the ceremony. I prayed to God, but then my emotions got the better of me, and I began to cry. Yet, I did not share in the celebration. That was the beginning of my ‘remembering my Grand Creator.’ — Eccl. 12:1.

Some months before this incident at school, our family had moved to live near Glasgow in Scotland. About that time, Father attended the public talk entitled "Millions Now Living Will Never Die." It changed his life. Father and Mother began studying the Bible and often talked together about God’s Kingdom and the blessings to come. I thank God that from then on my parents brought me up to love God and to put my trust in him. —

*** w09 8/15 p. 16 par. 17 Everlasting Life on Earth

— A Hope Rediscovered ***

From 1918 until 1925, the talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die,"

which explained the hope of everlasting life on earth, was presented by Jehovah’s servants in over 30 languages worldwide

*** w02 9/1 p. 25 "I Would Not Change a Thing!" ***

IN THE summer of 1929, when I was two years old, something wonderful happened to my father, Matthew Allen. He obtained the booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die!, published by the International Bible Students, as Jehovah’s Witnesses were then known.

*** w01 5/15 p. 14 ‘Behold! The Great Crowd!’ ***

with the public talk "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," featured by Jehovah’s people from 1918 to 1922.

*** w10 2/15 pp. 15-16 par. 8 "The Spirit and the Bride Keep On Saying: ‘Come!’" ***

8 The anointed followers of Christ have been extending the invitation since as far back as 1918. In that year, the public talk entitled "Millions Now Living May Never Die" offered hope that many will gain life in a paradise earth after the battle of Armageddon.

*** w90 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

History shows that the public exposure of these facts actually began before 1922. For example, the lecture "Millions Now Living May Never Die," first delivered in 1918 and published in booklet form in 1920, told of Christendom’s failure and of the approaching end of this world. The Golden Age of September 29, 1920, plainly exposed Christendom as a fornicator, a lying fraud, and a misleader of the people.

*** w58 10/15 p. 630 par. 16 Public Address: God’s Kingdom Rules

— Is the World’s End Near? ***

. Back in January of 1918, in the very throes of World War I, the American president, Woodrow Wilson, proposed the League of Nations. The very next month Jehovah’s witnesses, as represented by the president of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, began preaching the startling message, "The World Has Ended

— Millions Now Living May Never Die."

6

The Organization Does Not Want You To Think!

by minimus in

jw
friends

they try to keep you on a hamster's wheel and never give you a break.. if you are young and single, you should be a regular pioneer.. if you are gifted and intelligent you should not even think of college, just preach the beliefs of the watchtower.. if you want to get married and then have kids, that's typically discouraged since we are so deep in this time of the end.. if you are married and have a family, you are expected to act superhuman and perform feats as a way of life like preparing for and attending all meetings, getting out in field service every weekend, caring for the children, feeding them, getting them ready for theocratic activities, and making sure you show appreciation for the spiritual food by being early for the meetings and commenting as you are expected to.

.

then there's family worship night which the pharisees invented in order to study more of the organization's doctrines.. meanwhile if you or your family are under the weather or feeling ill, you are guilted into going to the kh, participating and looking joyful.. is there any wonder why "apostates" are so content in life, now??.

AndDontCallMeShirley

This all makes sense when you understand the methodology of cults and high-control groups:

If a person has time to think, this person is dangerous to the leaders. Therefore, the leaders must hijack ALL of your time and energy, keeping you so immersed in group activities that you have no time to think and do some meaningful reflection.

Your life is so focused on the religion you do not realize the religion is your entire life. And that's the way they want it.

After you've given everything, the leaders will ask, "can't you give some more?" No? You are disloyal and unfaithful!

From, "The Cult Test":

Part of surrendering to the cult is giving up on having a personal life or personal goals. Newcomers are instructed to abandon "selfishness" and to devote their lives to serving the master, his group, and their "great cause"

the cult is the most important thing in the lives of the cult members. Sometimes, it is their entire life.

Faithful members will tell you that the cult has given them a whole new life, but that new life is often nothing more than working for free all of the time to raise money for the cult, and recruit new members for the cult, and going to meetings, "Bible study classes", "worship services", chanting sessions, meditation sessions, prayer sessions, work parties, "auditing" sessions, training sessions, conventions and other get-togethers. Sometimes, cult members live together in communal houses and have few social contacts besides other cult members. And all they talk about is the cult.

"too many meetings". They want to occupy too much of your spare time — like all of it. They have meetings, and then they have classes or "Bible study" or "training", and perhaps also lots of prayer sessions or chanting or meditation sessions, and then they have assemblies and conventions, and then some more meetings, in an endless cycle. And somewhere in the midst of all of that you are also supposed to go out recruiting and/or fund-raising.

The cult also wants to control you. First, they want to control all of your time, and then they will try to control more and more parts of your life: your sex life, your diet, your choice of reading materials, your choice of jobs, your consumption of drugs and alcohol (both legal and illegal), and sometimes even what doctor-prescribed medications you may take.

The cult demands total loyalty from its members, but the cult has no loyalty to its members. Cult members may be subjected to physical, mental, and/or sexual abuse.

Cults are marked by the callous, cruel, and insensitive treatment of their members. The cult feels no obligation to tell its members the truth. The cult has no respect for the members' minds, opinions, integrity, or feelings. The cult often subjects members to psychological abuse and mental torture. There may be sexual exploitation and abuse. There may be physical abuse, beatings, or other torture.

The group is considered more important than the lives of the individual members. The rank and file members are considered expendable; the guru and his cult are not.

Cults often use members like just so much slave labor. Some cults coldly discard members when they have no further use for them.

24

Where to begin?

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

good morning everyone,.

i am drinking coffee and thinking about something that kept my tossing and turning all night.

i want to tell my wife, the elders, my friends, that i have been watching a pattern develope within the wtbts for years, and that i love them all but feel that tha wtbts has become a mirror of ancient jerusalem when they strayed.

AndDontCallMeShirley

DATA-DOG: Are there any topics that you would consider to be the least controversial?

ADCMS: If you talk to anyone this may be the best tactic. However, remember that you are dealing with a mind that is convinced there is only one true religion, Jehovah's Witnesses, and only the governing body speaks truth. Any attempt to quesion that authority will be met with inpenetrable resistance. It is astounding what excuses a JW will come up with in order to justify the absurd actions or teachings that the WT is guilty of.

I had one friend, an Elder, actually tell me that ever-changing doctrines are PROOF that this is the true religion! I asked him, "but if something is true, it doesn't need to change, nor can it. If it does change then it was not true in the first place". That reasoning fell on deaf ears. When I pointed out major changes in doctrines from WT literature, his only comment was, "why are you looking through older literature? You cannot have right motives for doing that!" He followed that up with, "you canot question the governing body. They know so much more than us. You are being disloyal to the Org". So, even when you use WT literature to prove your point, the JW mind will resist any thought that may lead them to asking reasonable questions about the men and Organization they worship.

I would suggest this: find out what "pushes their buttons". I have a friend who was unaffected when I showed him how weak the WT's basis is for their ban on blood transfusions, and how absurd the "fractions" teaching is. He couldn't care less. However, my friend hates lying more than anything!! When I showed him that the Reasoning book misrepresented (lied) in their information on the Cross, he had a fit! When he confirmed what I told him by doing more research, this caused him to ask, "if the Watchtower lied about this, what else have they lied about?" That started his awakening process.

I'll conclude by showing a few quotes from WT literature. Of course, the WT hypocritically never sees how their counsel applies first to themselves; these quotes are designed to get non-JWs to examine THEIR religion, but are ignored when a JW wants to examine the Watchtower Society. The Point is, if something is true, scrutiny should be welcomed because it will only verify truth. If scrutiny is feared and prohibited then there's usually something to hide.

"We need to examine

"Every man should be persuaded in his own mind and no man should permit himself to be deterred from examining a question based upon the Bible because a clergyman or any one else makes the unsupported assertion that it is dangerous or unworthy of consideration. Error always seeks the dark, while truth is always enhanced by the light. Error never desires to be investigated. Light always courts a thorough and complete investigation. - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die", page 18.

***

w585/1p.261IsYourReligiontheRightOne?***

"Your religion should have solid basis, not on religious leaders, not on religious systems, but on God’s Word, the Bible

... If you learn that your religion is teaching what is not right, you should let go of that religion...

How can you tell whether your religion is the right one or not? A simple way of telling is to expose it to a test of God’s Word. If your religion is not in accord with what the Bible teaches, then it is not in harmony with truth. It is not right.. It is important, then, that you "keep testing whether you are in the faith," as Paul declared. Keep checking to see whether the things you believe are in keeping with God’s Word. But the question is, Are you willing to put your religion through such a test? There is nothing to fear, because if you have the right religion you can only be reassured by the examination. And if what you believe is not in keeping with the Bible, then you should welcome the truth....

w66 3/1p.132 ShouldFalsehoodandCorruptionBeExposed?

So, then, when religious leaders and organizations of Christendom misrepresent God’s Word by teaching traditions of men, is it wrong to expose their false doctrines? When they claim to be following Christ and yet mix in worldly politics, is it a bad thing to publicize that their actions are unchristian and condemned by God? Should the truth be suppressed because it exposes falsehood and corruption? Never! Jesus never hesitated to speak the truth......

Therefore, how will you respond when pointed statements are made about false religious teachings and corrupt practices? Will you immediately condemn the person or organization making the exposé? Do you feel it is all right to teach lies and misrepresent God’s Word, but wrong to expose the error? Contrary to what some may think, it is not unkind and unloving to lay bare falsehood and corruption.

not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God’s Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination." —The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life, Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society, 1968, p. 13

30

"Millions Now Living Will Never Die," Predicted the Watctower before 1914.

by Scott77 in

predicted the watctower falsely predicted before 1914 that,"millions now living will never die" before 1914. its now a year before we hit 100 years mark.

was god's or god's holy spirit guiding them when they falsely predicted that prophesy?

what is your reaction or perspective on this big lie?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

I've seen no references in any WT literature saying this teaching began prior to 1920. The "Millions" campaign was concocted by Rutherford in 1920.

jv chap.28 p.632 Testing and Sifting From Within

In the lecture "Millions Now Living Will Never Die," delivered by J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York City, attention was directed to the year 1925. On what basis was it thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year, 1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from wha twas understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925. On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward by 1925. This year also was associated with expectations for resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly Kingdom. If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others.

32

Was Satan Cast Out of Heaven in 1914?

by Kenneson in

according to jws christ established his kingdom in the heavens in 1914 and subsequently cast satan out of heaven then.

and they point to rev.

12:7-9 for "proof.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Scott77 asked: what Jv stands for?

Jv = "Proclaimers" book

32

Was Satan Cast Out of Heaven in 1914?

by Kenneson in

according to jws christ established his kingdom in the heavens in 1914 and subsequently cast satan out of heaven then.

and they point to rev.

12:7-9 for "proof.

AndDontCallMeShirley

I hate to break it to all of you, but Jesus actually began to rule in 1878:

Jv chap.28 p.632 Testing and Sifting From Within

Based on the premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later, they also concluded that if Jesus’ baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the beginning of an invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the spring of 33 C.E. would point to thespring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his power as heavenly King

-----

I don't believe that...but neither does the Watchtower (anymore). Isn't "New Light" wonderful?

Whatever I say today is absolute truth. If I change it and say something different tomorrow, then that's absolute truth. Confused yet?

When the new 7-15-13 WT comes out, most of the previous 1914 crap goes out the window, too!

25

Appealing a disfellowshipping - any experience

by dozy in

jw
friends

anyone had any experience of a successful appeal against a disfellowship?

a friend of mine feels he has been dfd unjustifiably & is considering an appeal.

he probably has something of a case - the jc was a total shambles - but i'm very dubious that he has any likelihood of success.. my only experience of a successful appeal is when elders in a neighbouring congregation were appointed by the co & overturned a df in our congregation a few years ago.

AndDontCallMeShirley

According to the Elder's manual, "Shepherd The Flock", 2010 edition, the procedure is as follows:

1. If the decision is to disfellowship, you have seven days to appeal the decision. The Chairman of your judicial committee will call the Circuit Overseer, and the C.O. will form an appeal committee.

If you appeal after your seven day appeal period, the Chairman will contact the Branch.

2. An appeal Committee will be formed even if there seems to be no valid basis for an appeal.

3. If the Appeal Committee upholds the DF decision of the Judicial Committee. no further appeal is allowed

-------- HOWEVER -----------

4. A second appeal is allowed, but the Appeal Committee will not tell you this!! It's a dirty secret and betrays the Watchtower's lack of real desire to make sure you know all your rights.

This is the exact wording in "Shepherd The Flock":

"The appeal committee should not mention this provision [a second appeal] unless the individual indicates that he believes a serious error in judgment has occurred".

A second appeal must be submitted in writing to the appeal committee.

No DF announcement will be made when it is in appeal.

I have heard of successful appeals but they are not common. Usually they are successful when a JC has violated procedure and opened up themselves or the WT to a lawsuit.

20

JW Apologists on YouTube and the Net becoming bolder

by RayPublisher in

is it just me or are we seeing more and more of these guys?.

i have been having some extraordinary conversations with these folks lately and they are actually holding lengthy dialogues with me, one who has become "dangerous", is "poisonous", a "slanderer", etc.

according to wt.. here is one exchange from yesterday and today with a jw apologist who calls himself "warriorprince101010" who decided to call me the dreaded "a" word on one of my videos, stating that i was a "bitter apostate":.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Ray- here's an approach you may try with "Little Warrior":

1. Ask him if he believes the governing body represents Jehovah, as they claim to? If he answers "yes", then ask, "well, if you believe they are speaking God's words, by rejecting their counsel to avoid reading apostate websites, is he not in reality, rejecting Jehovah? As the WT quotes below clearly show, the governing body says that they speak for God, and God says to avoid all contact with apostates.

2. If he answers "no", that he does not believe everything the governing body says comes from God (they are merely dispensing "advice"), then their ban on viewing "apostate" literature is really just a personal opinion, isn't it? If it's just a personal opinion, then why is he condemning your views simply because they disagree with the Watchtower? The charge that you are an "apostate" is then unfounded, because you are merely disagreeing with the opinions of imperfect men, and not God (as WT claims). "Little Warrior" also is technically an apostate, because he disagrees with WT on this point and ignores their directives.

If it's acceptable for "Little Warrior" to have a dissenting opinion of WT counsel, how can he condemn you for doing the same thing? Kettle...meet pot!

You see, he likes to have it both ways- he will follow WT counsel, claiming it is God's direction, when it personally suits him, but he also wants to dissent or reject some counsel he personally disagrees with. Unwittingly, he is doing the very same thing the WT accuses so-called "apostates" of doing! The big difference is, he hypocritically claims to be an active Jehovah's Witness who follows God's appointed 'faithful slave', the governing body, and defends WT as the only true religion, while at the same time defying their directives by saying 'he talks to whoever he wants".

1.You either accept all WT counsel without question if you really believe it's God's word, or

2. You pick-and-choose, which shows you don't believe it's God's word

I see this so often with JWs- on the one hand they say the GB speaks for God and we should follow all of their counsel without question; but, these same JWs pick-and-choose what counsel they personally agree with or not, and then end up doing whatever they want to.

In view of the following WT quotes, how can "Little Warrior" possibly rationalize his opinions? According to these quotes, he is being disloyal to God, lacking wisdom, defying the Bible, and is not a "devoted" Christian, by talking to you or looking at your material. So, really, he is the one with the problem, not you!:

*** w08 3/15 p. 5 par. 14 Be Yielding, Be Balanced ***

14 Never should our desire to be yielding, though, lead us to compromise with apostates. Our clear, firm stance in this regard is needed to preserve the purity of the truth and the unity of the congregation. Regarding "false brothers," Paul wrote: "To these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news might continue with you." (Gal. 2:4, 5) In the rare instance that apostasy does appear, devoted Christians will remain firm for what is right.

** w08 12/15 p. 29 Highlights From the Letters of John and of Jude ***

Wise we are to shun apostates

*** w07 7/1 p. 31 par. 16 "Keep Conquering the Evil With the Good" ***

However, we reject apostates because we know that our lives are saved, not by breaking God’s laws, but by keeping them!

*** w04 2/15 pp. 16-17 Guard Against Deception ***

Guard Against Deception by Apostates

9 How can we guard against being deceived by apostates?

We "avoid them" by steering clear of their reasonings— whether in person, in printed form, or on the Internet.

*** w00 5/1 p. 10 par. 9 Firmly Uphold Godly Teaching ***

across apostate propoganda . What is the wise course to follow in view of this?

Avoiding all contact

across apostate propoganda . What is the wise course to follow in view of this?

Avoiding all contact

*** w00 5/1 p. 10 par. 9 Firmly Uphold Godly Teaching ***

*** w04 2/15 p. 28 "Fight the Fine Fight of the Faith" ***

It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments

67

There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

by Terry in

with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Heathen said: I never did agree with alternative service myself

ADCMS: heathen you are entitled to your opinions. However, congratulations! You think just like the WT- you think your opinions should be law for everyone else, too.

Whether or not you agree with Alternative Service is irrelevant. If you'd rather go to prison for several years, then carry the label of "felon" the rest of your life instead of working in a hospital, fine- go for it! I'm sure any reasons you offer why that makes sense would be just as moronic as the Watchtower's.

The fact that the WT flip-flopped on this issue shows they couldn't understand when to stay out of other people's conscience in the first place, and they were wrong in their original 'law' and had to reverse it.

Heathen also said: All I can say is that in revelation all those that obey the command of , Thou Shalt not kill, are sent to prison , not to alternative service

ADCMS: Really? your Bible actually says that? Tell me which translation you are reading. I would like to look that verse up myself. I would add, if you want to read about some of the most prolific killers in literature, read the rest of your Bible. They committed genocide, mass murder and one-on-one murder on an epic scale- all for god. So, your idiotic statement falls short on yet another level.

Additionally, heathen, you continue to miss the point of Terry's story and the articles I quoted: it was completely unnecessary for Terry to go to prison in the first place. Had the WT not enacted those ridiculous policies Re: banning Alternative Service, he could've continued doing meaningful work in a civilian capacity, avoided prison, and still remain completely within the bounds of his Christian conscience and scriptural principles.

Maybe if you would take a few moments to step out of your own caustic, self-aggrandizing ego you'd be able to see that.