Buster

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Posts by Buster

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  31

  Six million people mislead?

  by ikhandi in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a little research since joining this board and honestly believe that jehovahs witnesses fit in the cult category.

  however what i don't understand if this is not the so called true religion as most of you have expressed how do you figure six million were mislead into believing it is the only true religion?

  i mean this is not like the heaven's gate cult or the infamous jonestown cult who had very little followers in comparison with jehovahs witnesses.

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  Buster

  Scoo,

  There was no need to hi-jack the thread. I don't think you've been out of the org long enough, you need more practice staying on topic. Feel free to have the last word.
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  17

  So, are you going to watch it tonight?

  by WildHorses in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  joe millionare comes on tonight.

  i didn't follow the show when it first started airing.

  i have however watched the last two shows, and tonight is the final episode.

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  Buster

  I have never watched more than a minute of any of these asinine reality shows - Except Joe Millionaire. In the beginning it was great to watch these women fawning over a Prince Charming that would have to wait for clearance specials at Buck-a-Book.

  I think he got his eye on Zora early. As long as he was going to keep her, he could have made better choices earlier. I was happy to see the Muppet go two weeks ago. I still can't believe he ditched Dana week 1. And I was sure MoJo had the inside track - she was my favorite.

  Gotta see it thru and find what the twist is.

  - Cliff

  of the "Can't spend all your time expanding your mind" class
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  31

  Six million people mislead?

  by ikhandi in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a little research since joining this board and honestly believe that jehovahs witnesses fit in the cult category.

  however what i don't understand if this is not the so called true religion as most of you have expressed how do you figure six million were mislead into believing it is the only true religion?

  i mean this is not like the heaven's gate cult or the infamous jonestown cult who had very little followers in comparison with jehovahs witnesses.

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  Buster

  Scoob,

  For the record, I never suggested that the efflluent was from a dog. And I doubt anyone will be able to produce a WT article that says 'We are six million, so we must be right.' But do not deny that JWs tout their growth and numbers as proof of God's blessing and therefore their correctness. I've had these conversation with active dubbies, though they tend to be short. And by the way, I was in the org once, and I have a memory.
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  38

  How I Help The Society Fake Its Statistics

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm a fake publisher.

  i turn in a fake field service report.

  i claim fake hours.

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  Buster

  That was a good one. I find the stories of still actives to be among the most interesting stories here. I think you could easily defend the time you spend here as field service hours. At least you can come here with sincerity.

  Perhaps we all should consider getting ahold of field service report forms and filling them out for the time we spend here - and send it in. What fun.
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  9

  I Was Treated Nice, by a JW

  by LB in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we went to a movie this evening and while standing in line i look over to the line about 50 feet away and see a pretty woman waving at me.

  i have no idea who this is.

  she looked familiar but i was clueless.

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  Buster

  See, now this stuff confuses me. How can I be expected to have a 'tude toward all JWs with this kind of thread? Next thing you know, we'll be maintaing a balanced attitude and seeing the still-actives as individuals. That doesn't sound like much fun at all.
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  5

  Bible Study?

  by ClassAvenger in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what does a "bible study" from the jws teach?

  i've been offered one, is it a good idea to accept?

  they tell me that they will just show me what they believe and why the believe that, that's it.

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  Buster

  Sure, go for it. Whatever you decide, keep us posted.

  You'll find it is not so much a bible study as it is a book study - and the book is a recent, glossed-over, soft peddling Watchtower Bible and Tract society publication. The person you would study with will have some preconceived notion of how far to get thru a book in any one session. You will be assured that if you will just go along with the paragraph-and-question mode, it will all make sense by the end.

  Expect that once you are into a study, and once they decide that you've learned a certain amount, they will expect you to proceed to the next level. They will expect you to mature as a Christian by embracing what you have been taught. Here is where you will see a darker side, and here is where it is no longer just an explanation of their beliefs. The friend with whom you study is happy to be a friend with you because he/she thinks they can bring you into the truth. When you backpedal, you will lose that friend.

  Some things to look for during a study:

  - Circular logic. Witnesses are famous for their presenting their beliefs, then showing how they are the only ones that believe it, then concluding that they are the only ones doing God's will.

  - Extraneous detail. The books are loaded with fluffy explanations that are designed to look like illucidations on the point at hand. But usually, they are just nice-sounding little apositives designed to get your head nodding.

  - Foregone conclusions. JW books will often step up softly when they are trying to make a critical conclusion. Look for statements like 'history shows' or 'it is clear that'. The rest of the sentence will be an unbased conclusion. The hard part is that the rest of the book will refer to that conclusion as tho it were established fact. You will absolutely see that kind of explanation whenever they explain beliefs likke 1914 (return of Christ to a heavenly kingdom), 1919 (selection of WTS as the channel of God).

  What you can do:

  - Study. Read the book, or at least the entire chapter before the study with the JW. At the end of the chapter, make notes as to what you thought the writer was trying to convey in that chapter. Then go back to see if they actually made valid points. You see, the read-a-paragraph-and-ask-the-question-at-the-bottom-of-the-page mode actually interrupts any critical approach to the material. It is mind-numbing.

  - Challenge. If they have the truth, they should be able to back it up. It shoulld make sense to you. If you are sincerely trying to understand, and they are sincerely trying to help you understand, then you will.

  - Slow way the hell down. For every scripture thay cite, grab a bible and look it up. And I don't mean just the scripture snippet cited. Get ahold of some bible commentary - plenty of it on the web - and see what that book was for. See what the context is for the chapter. Read the surrounding verses yourself. You won't believe how oftern the scripture snippets are out of context. You'll even find citings that are designed to make you infer the exact opposite of what your research indicates to you.
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  31

  Six million people mislead?

  by ikhandi in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have done a little research since joining this board and honestly believe that jehovahs witnesses fit in the cult category.

  however what i don't understand if this is not the so called true religion as most of you have expressed how do you figure six million were mislead into believing it is the only true religion?

  i mean this is not like the heaven's gate cult or the infamous jonestown cult who had very little followers in comparison with jehovahs witnesses.

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  Buster

  This question is a bit difficult to take seriously. But in the off-chance that it is sincerely asked, I'll relate something I overheard at work years ago: One worker, a minister of some sort, referred to number of adherents to some faith as proof that they must be right. He felt that so many people could not be wrong. Another co-worker pointed out the speciousness of the arguement and added that "that is like saying a trillion flies cannot be wrong, so lets eat sh*t."

  It is great how JWs spend all their time explaining how a billion Catholics can ALL be wrong, and yet then say, with a straight face, that their 6 million could not be wrong because of their great number.

  It kills me how self-centered and ignorant of logic JWs are.

  And I'll go you one better: I'ld be willing to bet that, in the US, there are as many exJWs as active JWs. Now those people (we) came, saw, bought the t-shirt, and got the hell out. I would argue that they have a broader perspective than those current, active, overindoctrinated, head-nodding JWs. If one feels compelled by the number of dubbies, should they not be as pesuaded by the quantity of refugees therefrom?

  It ain't how many are in - its how many ain't in.

  (boy that felt good)
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  5

  WT Wants to Build Residence for 2,000 in Dumbo, NY

  by abbagail in

  1. social
  2. current

  this article from the new york times... i hope some of you new yorkers will explain what this is about... where is "dumbo"?

  and i thought the wt was "getting out of the city"?

  [quote]http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/16/nyregion/16jeho.html?tntemail0 .

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  Buster

  Hey GRITS.

  Is that real? Dumbo Neighborhood Assn.? They must be so proud. Anyway, it seems that they are planning on some pretty serious growth, evidenced by new residential facilities plans and the recent purchases of new printing presses.

  My mind immediately jumps back to 70s era assemblies and meetings where the big boys were chastising those that had the audacity to plan ahead. Things like business planning and education plans were clearly evidence of weak faith. Compare that to the planning it takes to create and operate these residential and industrial facilities. It takes years to work out that stuff. Have they no faith? Christ is coming back isn't he? Oh, I know he's already here and graciously allowing more time for the preaching work. But it is soon, I'm sure.
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  14

  Diminished Morality as Proof???

  by confuzcious in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  today a couple of elders came by and told me that "diminished morality" is proof that those who leave the truth have lost jehovah's favor.

  that is, when they were in the truth, they were all chaste, etc.

  but now that they are out of the truth that they don't hold the same high standards of morality.

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  Buster

  Lets see now, I'm no saint. But I'm not sure how I would get lower than these actual cases of still-active JWs:

  - The elder that decided that he loved his best-friend's wife better than his own. That caused two split marriages, affecting five chiildren directly. I've never done anything that bad.

  - The MS that was raping his teenage daughter after mummy went to bed. His wife defended him - didn't even think he should have been disfellowshipped - he was repentant you know.

  - The brother that molested my friend's daughter.

  - The elders that asked my friend to keep it within the congregation - yup, don't go to the police.

  - My one-time friend that agreed, but protested agressively ... by moving to another cogregation

  - Okay, I did do some naughty stuff - but the worst of it was while I was still attending. And I swear, that CO's wife came on to me - she paid for the room - I didn't have that kind of money at 19. That one never found its way to a JC, I wonder why ... hmmmm. Now that I think of it, (and not too proudly, by the way - it was a long time ago) any married women I ... was naughty with ... were elder's or MS' wives - while I was still trying to be a good little dubbie.

  Its a little cleaner here on the outside.
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  13

  Chew the facts....

  by Jb9963 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if anyone at all would reply to this, it would be great.

  first off i'd like to say i only want mature people to reply, so that should cut down on some of the flak that will indefinitely be received for posting this.

  i have a few topics i would love to cover with you jehovah's witnesses.

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  Buster

  Phil,

  I'm not sure what quotes you are asking for. But this is a site loaded with 'em: http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/

  That site has quotes, arranged by topic, with full citation of the source and very little, if any commentary. The Watchtower Bible and Tract society publication are allowed to speak for themselves. Admittedly, there is emphasis added at the fun parts though.

  But approach your daughter carefully with this stuff. You see, depending on how deep she is into it, she will see it instantly as Satan the Devil's work. She has been trained to sidestep. She has been warned about those that would assail her faith with reasonable-sounding, serpent-like logic. (I'm not kidding - she has been told this stuff)

  I've never had to do this, but may I suggest you select a topic or two that stand out to you. Research the comments in this forum - the Search feature (upper left of this screen) is pretty useful. Then ask her views. Many make the mistake trying to prove something to JWs - can't be done. Make her prove it. If she is to see the flaws, I think it is most likely to happend when she is trying to explain them.

  Please keep us posted. The further she goes into it, the more likely she is to pull away from you and the rest of her family I wanna read some good news soon.