Posts by Bugbear

19

EVIDENCE CONVENTION-ATTENDANCES ARE IN DECLINE?

by steve2 in

jw
friends

there are many threads on this forum about the stultifying tedium of the conventions.

memories of one convention merge with every other convention over the years with few sticking out as high points.. in recent years, there have been lots of anecdotal reports (primarily from western countries) of an astonishingly low number of baptismal candidates at these conventions, and in particular district conventions - especially compared to the higher numbers who presented for baptisms in earlier decades.

is this decline also reflected in general attendances at the conventions?.

Bugbear

What they did i Sweden anyway, since they sold ”our” assembly hall, was that they booked a complex Hotel center up north in the high mountain region (skiing resort) several weekends, during of season, and told the Hotel owner that they could fill the hotel complex with 800-1000 guest, each one individually paying for their rooms or foods in the restaurant. This for two nights. Guess if the Hotel owner gladly let them have for free all the “conference” facilities. And of course the speakers or those in charge of this conference had their rooms and food free.

This made several hundred cars and busses travel more than 300 km, turn and return. Forcing poor families to spend about $ 100 /night + rest. Food. Of course during the convention the speakers always demand the audience to give their contribute for all the arrangement that the society had provided for??!!

This kept on for a couple of years. But the brothers soon discovered that attendance figures dropped dramatically. And I guess The Hotel owners soon find another way of getting their guests.

Bugbear

66

hello

by fakefading in

hello my fellow "apostates".

just wanted to say hi.

i'm still in the borg but mentally out.

Bugbear

Welcome!

I am probably much older than you, but left the borg 15 years ago. I succeded in holding all my 6 children outside the KH, but my wife is still in. She has been a hardcore witness for 40 years. All of us (my children and I) are a bit worried over her menthal health, but feel that it is better for her wake up slowly, and let her believe in all her friends. I think that she needs a "firm believe" in something, so we dont speak to her about the TTATT. Even if I understand that she "knows" what is wrong with the soc. she feels more comfortable to cling to the Watchtower. (cognitive dissonance). I think what you must do is, TAKE CARE of YOUR future. Even if you still want to live with her, you must get yourselves a job, an income and a pension. This also to secure her future. The org. will not.

Bugbear

20

Are you as critical of higher education and science as you are of religion?

by EndofMysteries in

i am beginning to see a complete unbalanced shift from one end of the spectrum to the other.

i'll use jw's as the example but this would apply to any religion and any person.

if you just accepted the jw teachings unquestionably from the governing body because you felt they were the highest authority on the matter and 'trusted' them before waking up to ttatt you may shift to the other end of the spectrum.

Bugbear

Julia O

You say:" Scientists say x? Show me the evidence."

Im sorry to say that none will come to you knocking on the door saying that I have taken some evidence with me and I want to show them for you.

The fact is that these evidences are located, in laboratories, Museums, amongs text schoolars, who have spent many years studuing coneiform, clay plates, hieroglyfs from ancient egypt. Museums all over the world its full of them, in Bagdad, in Cairo, London, Paris. The next thing you must do is start to learn some of these technics, languages. This is a very time consuming effort. Or you can just trust that 99% of the professors, textcrackers, scientific world are very honest, and eager to expose enyone of them if they cheat.

Bugbear

20

Are you as critical of higher education and science as you are of religion?

by EndofMysteries in

i am beginning to see a complete unbalanced shift from one end of the spectrum to the other.

i'll use jw's as the example but this would apply to any religion and any person.

if you just accepted the jw teachings unquestionably from the governing body because you felt they were the highest authority on the matter and 'trusted' them before waking up to ttatt you may shift to the other end of the spectrum.

Bugbear

Yes false analogy,

We know so much more about this world today then the old greek, and we must believe that we really can see with our own eyes: here is some exampel:

When it comes to evolution proof, it is easy to repudiate scientific proof of age measurement, such as C14 and other methods.

The WBTS just say they cant proof that these methods are proof and true. This even if you drill a hole in the arctic ice, with rings for every year.

But if you got in your hand, something written, calendars, kings reign, harvest counting. a.s.f and can connect these written layertables with other poeples written thing, you got proof that that they must have coexisted. WRITTEN proof much older then the bible itself. One of these claylayers(and there are several thousends of them) are named the Gilgamesh epos, about "The flood". The problem for the Bible schoolars are that these claylayers can be dated til about 5000 years b.ch. They often speek about Kings and reins much much older then "the flood", and therefore these claylayers from the sumerer (Irak), proof that Bible chronology is unfiasable. This also goes with Champolions cracking of the Egypt hieroglyfs. According to the WBTS chronology the flood must have happend about 4300 years ago. Imagine that only 100 hundred years aftert the Flood the Egyptians where able to build enourmus pyramids, and had kingdoms wide spread wich must have had much more then 1 million inhabitants. (Remember only eight humans survived the flood)....Not to mention the problems with Kangarous/Wallabies and other speciment in remote areas. For those who look deeply in this, it is very obvious that fundamentalists are not honest.

Bugbear

7

JW encounters.... How about you?

by dazed but not confused in

looking back, were there witnesses that you secretly hoped would never learn ttatt, never wake up?.

i had two polar opposite encounters this weekend.

the first was a sweet sister that saw me and my wife at the grocery store and gave us both big hugs and asked how we were doing.

Bugbear

Me to!

My wife who has been a JW since she were 20 (now 65), had a very sad and crushed childhood with no father in sight. I have tried to fill that part of her wishes, but now she finds that I am an apostaph. I dont wont to crush her illusions about the WBTS, becouse I think, this is the last illusions she need to survive. It is better for her to continue being in, with all her friends, and slightly seeing "new light" coming from GB, without me writing it on her nose.

Bugbear

9

How can we benefit from the death of Jesus?

by Bugbear in

according to many christian churches including wbtc, the very cores of christian believes, is about how god (jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life.

the bible is full of scriptures given this indication.

(gal.

Bugbear

De Wandelar!

Is something really a sacrifice if you take your life back within 3 days?

I have had that thought myself for a couple of years now. Does God play charades with us?

What a malignant God we have created in our minds. A God that demanded the Israelits to sacrifice every week, only the best they had, out of sheeps, bulls, birds a.s.on. A god that made Abraham must proof that he was ready to kill his own son. A God that demands stoning of people that are suspected of adultery.?!

I hope that (and is quite sure) he is only a brain product. Unfortunately if you look at other ancient people, they have similar gods, demanding ascetism, and other sacrifices.

Bugbear

9

How can we benefit from the death of Jesus?

by Bugbear in

according to many christian churches including wbtc, the very cores of christian believes, is about how god (jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life.

the bible is full of scriptures given this indication.

(gal.

Bugbear

Honesty!

You say : By limiting our lifespan, God gives us enough time to come to know Him and His provision for eternal.

Is the lifespan enough for all those children who dies before they can attend a school? Or is the lifespan enough for all those people, who just happends to be borned in China, Korea and all these countries who have never heard of Jesus?

Bugbear

9

How can we benefit from the death of Jesus?

by Bugbear in

according to many christian churches including wbtc, the very cores of christian believes, is about how god (jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life.

the bible is full of scriptures given this indication.

(gal.

Bugbear

Laika!

I am glad that I am not god. But the very god in the old testament, gives us numerous exampel of that he certainly is capaple of throwing firestones and sulphur over humans that dont behave in the very way he wants them. He is killing assyrian soldier, destroy Sodom and Gommorra, killing millions of people in the flood. Given us pestilence, deases, eruptions, a.s.f. Maybee I would prefer a little less brutal God.

Bugbear

9

How can we benefit from the death of Jesus?

by Bugbear in

according to many christian churches including wbtc, the very cores of christian believes, is about how god (jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life.

the bible is full of scriptures given this indication.

(gal.

Bugbear

According to many Christian churches including WBTC, the very cores of Christian believes, is about how God (Jehova) sacrifice his one borne son, so that every obedient mankind who believe in him could be released from sin and thereby have the hope of eternal life. The Bible is full of scriptures given this indication. (Gal. 4:4 1th Tim. 3:16 John 14:30 a.s.f)

So a Father (in heavens) sends his firstborn son down to earth, to sacrifice his perfect soul and body so that all mankind could be forgiven and have a better life.

What happened? Jesus did not become older than 33-35 years of age before those people in the time, killed him, tortured him, and humiliated him. Spit on him. His own followers didn´t try to protect him. And finally the Roman soldiers put him on a stake (cross) between two thieves/robbers, to die a very painful death.

Now when he was death, all humans who believed in him, was in a very much better position towards God. Their sins were forgiven and they had the prospect of everlasting life in the heavens or on earth.

Where is the logic! How can humans benefit from the very tragically death of the son of God? How can we be excused for killing a relatively young men in this way?

If I were God I should become furious, and let my angels cast burning stones and sulfur on the entire earth. I should extinguish every trace of the human race, since they obviously (proven) were very bad creatures.

Can anyone help me understand the Ethical, moral and Philosophical aspect of this problem?

Bugbear

27

Atheists I have a question....and some comments on spirituality (possible ranting may follow)

by Jon Preston in

jw
friends

ok i just thought about this because its been in the back of my mind deep in the subconscious goop where i store many a curious thing:.

what is spirituality to an atheist?

what is its meaning?

Bugbear

In my journey from a believing JW:s to a spiritually weak brother and further to an ”apostates” and now an absolute atheist, I have never ever before felt so spiritually good.

I feel sorry for all those people out there who follow traditions, mullahs, preachers books, GB, CO, DO,s , the pope, Satanist leaders, without trying to get accurate knowledge, but believing they must be spiritually better of then those who do not believe in their gods.

My GOD is searching for true and accurate knowledge, finding proof for what I actually can see, hears, and feel, this is what I think is spiritually. I like to discuss my observations with friends testing If possible their observations is more accurate than my. Not getting trapped in a ready-made “mind pattern” that others has served me. This is what my former “brothers” within the org. call apostasy, spiritually weak and worse atheism.

Bugbear