core

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Posts by core

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  107

  Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.

  by Englishman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i see that ray franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that jw's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the gb.

  also, it would appear that ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.

  it seems to me that it is quite likely that ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the gb, if only for the reason that ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate.

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  core

  Why would Ray lie or misrepresent the situation ? -

  Some points first -

  1 Idont think he (RF) is a saint (as Bill Bowen says mnan do)

  2 His writings COC and SOCF gave me and many a reason to trust our gut instinct and get out of the mnd control of WT

  3 From my own experience spanning several decades I remember how I thought 'this does not apply to us' when we first had instructions on how to handle child abuse - I was unaware then of the problem biut was to become aware of it much later so whilst not on the level of RF I can see how he may have viewed things back then

  4 Does it matter what he thinks on any particular issue- he clearly is a man of principle and moral courage who is also in his 80s so deserves a rest (though he probably still need to work to eat as he will have no pension from WT)

  5 Does everyone who leaves WT have to follow some set pattern or standard or join every revolt against the old order?

  6 For the record I also think Bill Bowen is a man of principal and moral courage who handles matters in his own way, different to Ray Franz but backed by the same instinctive honesty.

  I have experience of handling judicial matters involving child abuse (before I got out of course) and can assure you that (whilst I did everything I could to protect and restore hurt houngsters) I am to this day ridden with guilt for following the party line in all judicial matters, rather than standing up for obvious standards of justice.

  I and Bill Bowen and Ray Franz (I do not consider myself to be the same standing as the them I must point out) are guilty for having misled and miserved the brothers when we were elders - I am sure that like so many others - we tried to handle brothers with compassion and care - in the end the organisation train overwhelmed us - I know it did with me and for that I am truly sorry - I am confident that Bill and Ray are also.
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  24

  WHY I HAVE A DOG

  by target in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  dogs don't turn into teenagers.

  they don't care about clothing styles.

  they don't get depressed about friends.

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  core

  No dog...yet with the promised elders visits to inactive ones shortly it might be a good time to get a Dobermann........
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  7

  JGNat's Comments on Obedience Study Nov 17

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jehovah blesses and protects those who are obedient

  i dont know how blondie is going to react to this weeks study, but i was really frustrated, like i was being dragged in a direction i do not want to go.

  in desperation i began resorting to ridicule instead of reasoned argument.

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  core

  Obedience.....are you kidding.......for years I obeyed with the carrot and stick routine - armaggedon is just around the corner, straight ahead, in front of us etc etc.

  I remember the build up to 1975 and then the affrontery of being told that we had expected too much, we were never meant to believe what we were told apparently

  A blind man trusts his guide dog implicity - because he can trust it based on his actual experience

  My experience is that we can trust the so called FDS as much as George Bush trusts Saddam Hussain
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  21

  No longer filling my spiritual needs...

  by eisenstein in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i feel very sad today.

  i see my old jw friends almost every day on my way to the subway, they are street witnessing.

  i've talked to a couple of them about my doubts, etc.

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  core

  Sorry to hear about your job situation and the apparent patronising tone of those who would encoiurage you 'back' to the meetings.

  For anyone who has come away from the WTS after many years there is a vacuum - I can only suggest you see that your spiritual need is real and try to fill it in some way yourself - what we all did for years was to mortgage our coinsciences and lives toi an organisation and it took us over completely. It is not surprising that therer is a vacuum in your life.

  How can you fill your spiritual need - with candid respect I would suggest it is NOT by going back to mental servitude - I do not know what you did or in what circumstances but the farcical situation of having a PR active for 6 years (?) is evidence of the lack of concern for people evidenced by the WTS organisation. You need toi appreciat that you can (if you want) have a relationship with God - but he does not want to have a relationship with buildings, printing presses or organisatioins - he is interested in you.

  To me no simple answer exists - who to go to - where to go to - if it was easy then you would already have the guidance you need from this site and others.

  Just because the WTS claims to represent the God of the Bible exclusively does not by association make the Bible wrong - it is not - read the psalms - dont try to look for complex or prophetic explanations - it is written directly for YOU. Just relax and enjoy what you read with o pressures or schedules or timetables. It was written for you and can help you.

  Not much help I know but I hope it does help to know that many (all I think) reading your post are thinking of you and are concerned for you.
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  21

  Do You Think The Society Will Ever Go Broke?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if the local congregations have no money to pay their own bills and the numbers of witnesses continue to drop off, how will the society last?

  we've heard about down sizing and layoffs.

  we've seen congregations merge because the bills aren't getting paid.

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  core

  Minimus

  Money is a problem for congregations as the centre has them 'lend' it their funds at no interest.

  Branches and Brooklyn have massive reserves - see the accounts filed by the Society ( USA and UK are easy to find stunning amounts involved - ) however the cost of running branches is high as nothing but the best is the policy when buying equipment etc.

  Supply of Money itself will not be the main problem - you are right though as money problems will cause massive discontent as the accounts etc become more transparent and brothers see how much is involved and what that means - I know of local sisters who live in near poverty but they always contribute to EVERY request / box etc. As long as the society can have people think like that then they are going to be OK for funds. The brothers in branches live in nothing like poverty and with a life style/standard higher than the majority of those who are supporting them financially .

  Also where costs are involved local costs always come second to the 'requests' from the centre
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  26

  How Did You Handle Spiritual Snobs?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife was speaking negatively about a sister, an elder's wife, because since i resigned as an elder, she does not give her the time of day.

  she said to me that sister-------- is a "spiritual snob.

  " i never heard this expression before.

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  core

  Minimus

  Yes I am now out but dealing with the SNOBS was not easier by being PO. You have to understand that most SNOBs or their wives covet the position ( I dont know why!) as they mistake the position of service as a position of authority. Most SNOBS I knew worked hard to undermine me at every turn as they wanted those 'in the centre' to be in a spiritual clique of superiority which I could not agree with. Elders are in place to look after the brothers - SNOBS view the brothers as a herd, not a flock, over which they can show their authority, real or imagined, by word and deed.

  When you have to put a SNOB in place you need to hit the nerve which reaches the brain - their authority, standing etc - SNOBS hate having complaints made to COs about them - it hits right at the centre of the clique mentality.
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  22

  my story

  by nelly1 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  .

  well i tried to do this yest and i lost all of it, :( lot of typing lost, but oh well, i would welcome feedback from anyone who has been through similar things to me, i got the truth 13 yrs ago, and i never felt like i was wanted not really, i was with a man and had 3 kids with him when i came into contact with the witnesses, but he was a pedophile so i found out and had been doing things to our kids since they were born, i ditched him, he walked from 2 high court trials, and no one in my cong cared abt me, they didnt want to know.

  said it was in my head, anyway, i struggled for years i hated going to conventions and being ignored by my own cong, it was just me and my daughter on our own all the time trying to serve jehovah, i didnt feel happy but i just wanted to please my god and i just tried my best, i always felt left out and i was never asked to do demos at the hall, its like they were just putting up with me, i was always pulled in for stupid things like the messages i put on my answerphone cuz some stupid stuck up old sister didnt like it.

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  core

  Hope that writing about your terrible experiences and the concerns shown by the responses helps in some way.

  Yes I also know how it feels to see the 'stars' in the cong get all the privileges......and to take children home from the meeting in tears (of deep despair) at the unfairness

  Hope you can start to put this behind you and get your life back in your own hands
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  23

  Letter to the GB

  by Undecided in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  governing body .

  watchtower bible & tract society .

  dear who ever you are, .

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  core

  Sadly you letter will never reach the GB members as it will be intercepted by the Service Department thought police who generally send such back to your congo (if they can find out which it is/was) and they instruct the local elders to 'deal with it' - meaning deal with you.

  Doubtless the GB members are protected from knowing how hostile things are outside their protected circle.
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  26

  How Did You Handle Spiritual Snobs?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife was speaking negatively about a sister, an elder's wife, because since i resigned as an elder, she does not give her the time of day.

  she said to me that sister-------- is a "spiritual snob.

  " i never heard this expression before.

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  core

  Sorry should have typed GRIEF not GRIED

  New to all this techie stuff !
• 
  26

  How Did You Handle Spiritual Snobs?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my wife was speaking negatively about a sister, an elder's wife, because since i resigned as an elder, she does not give her the time of day.

  she said to me that sister-------- is a "spiritual snob.

  " i never heard this expression before.

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  core

  Minimus

  Yes I did tear a strip of more than one spiritual SNOB

  However, they generally have a way of appearing so humble (Uriah Heap?) and smarming around that they actually thanked me every time I corrected them!

  As dealing with these people caused ME to feel stressed and caused grief for my family ( as I was PO guess who had children who were not asked to all the younger ones social events?) I would suggest not trying to put them right as it will only cause you gried and they will enjoy talking about your 'attitude'

  Enjoy life - do not let them get you down - do not join them in the gutter