Am i on crack?
l3gi0n
JoinedPosts by l3gi0n
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31
Should a Christian Fight in a war, or join the military service?
by l3gi0n inecclesiastes 3:8
: there is a time for peace and a time for war.
there are some arguments as to weather a christian would fight in military service, or would remain peaceful to all men, up until death.
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Should a Christian Fight in a war, or join the military service?
by l3gi0n inecclesiastes 3:8
: there is a time for peace and a time for war.
there are some arguments as to weather a christian would fight in military service, or would remain peaceful to all men, up until death.
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l3gi0n
Ecclesiastes 3:8 : There is a time for peace and a time for war.
There are some arguments as to weather a Christian would fight in military service, or would remain peaceful to all men, up until death. But what is taught in the bible? Is it against military service, or pro military service?
On one hand Cornelius, a commander of roman soldiers, was baptized by Paul himself. (Acts 10) Christens of that time were very upset about the baptism, it, and criticized Paul. (Acts 11 1 & 2) Jesus did not turn the soldier away when asking to heal his salve, (Matt 8 5-13) instead he commended him for a fine display of faith, and lamented “I have not found anyone In Israel with such great faith” It must have upset Jesus that the gentiles got it, and the Jews didn’t. Also when a group of soldiers asked John the baptizer what was required to be baptized, (Luke 3, 14) John did not direct them to leave the service. While murder is wrong Romans 13 says authority “does not bear the sword for nothing” and remember If possible, be peaceful to all men, so it may not always be possible.
On the other hand, the fifth commandment “You must not murder” is pretty strait forward. In the Sermon on the Mount, (Matt 5 21-26, 38-42) Jesus speaks of the proper way to handle issues, Love your enemy, turn the other cheek.
Is war Murder?
The Bible of course commands us not to murder (Exodus 20:12). Yet when a person in the line of duty to the governing authority (see Romans 13), in the context of war, shoots his national enemy without personal hatred, he is simply being submissive to the purpose that his government has required of him. History is full of men and women who have killed during times of war in the line of duty without any animosity toward the person(s) whose life was taken. They were carrying out their biblical responsibility to submit to their governing authority and defend their country. http://www.rbcdothan.org/Journey/Default.htm
The insight books make a few comments under the subject of war,
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In his treatise "The Chaplet, or De Corona" (XI), when discussing "whether warfare is proper at all for Christians," Tertullian (c. 200 C.E.) argued from Scripture the unlawfulness even of a military life itself, concluding, "I banish from us the military life."-The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1957, Vol. , pp. 99, 100.Isn't Tetullian an apostate if I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, but isn’t reading apostate literature a Disfellowshipping offence, pornography for the mind? Why would the society quote him?
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The Christians . . . shrank from public office and military service." ("Persecution of the Christians in , A.D. 177,"This is what the book really says. Notice that two sentences are condensed into one, with a different meaning.
“While among Romans it was considered the highest honor to possess the privileges of Roman citizenship, the Christians announced that they were citizens of heaven. They shrank from public office and military service.”
It would appear what is being said is that they were taking the words of Jesus to heart, (john 18:36) “My kingdom is no part of this world” I don’t know if they would have declined office, or military service if it were not for . Paul was a roman, but I know of no scripture where he denounced his citizenship.
The book goes on to say
“Christians regarded its rites and its popular assemblies
with contempt and abhorrence. The Romans viewed the secret meetings of the Christians with suspicion, and accused them of abominable excesses and crime. They were known to have representatives in every important city of ”How quickly the christens forgot the words of Romans 13:5 “there for it is necessary to submit to the authorities not only because of possible punishment, but also because of conscience” What did they think was going to happen, if they hated the Romans, Clamed that roman government had no authority over them, and held secret meetings? I cant help but wonder if some of the persecution the early Christians faced, was there own fault
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"While they [the Christians] inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. . . . It was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes."-The Decline and Fall of the , by Edward Gibbon, Vol. I, p. 416.Misquoted, this is really misquoted, and out of context. As I will show with some excerpts from the surrounding pages.
But while they inculcated the maxims of passive obedience, they refused to take any active part in the civil administration or the military defence of the empire. Some indulgence might perhaps be allowed to those persons who, before their conversion, were already engaged in such violent and sanguinary occupations;(101) but it was impossible that the Christians, without renouncing a more sacred duty, could assume the character of soldiers, of magistrates, or of princes.(102) This indolent, or even criminal disregard to the public welfare, exposed them to the contempt and reproaches of the Pagans, who very frequently asked, what must be the fate of the empire, attacked on every side by the barbarians, if all mankind should adopt the pusillanimous sentiments of the new sect?
Notice what is left out, “Some indulgence might perhaps be allowed to those persons who, before their conversion, were already engaged in such violent and sanguinary occupations”
INDULGENCE is defined in the Encarta Dictionary ( I LOVE Word 2003 Do you think the WTBTS will ban it because you can look up any word instantly.)
1 Yielding to somebody’s wish - the gratification of or yielding to a wish
2 Something allowed as luxury - something that somebody lets himself or herself or somebody else have, especially a luxury
3 Tolerant Attitude - a kind or tolerant attitude toward somebody
It is safe to say that according to this book, christens did not fight, unless already in the military before baptism. This how ever did not mean they were correct! Here is another quote from page 414,
“among the various articles which excite their pious indignation, we may enumerate false hair, garments of any colour except white, instruments of music, vases of gold or silver, downy pillows (as Jacob reposed his head on a stone), white bread, foreign wines, public salutations, the use of warm baths, and the practice of shaving the beard, which, according to the expression of Tertullian, is a lie against our own faces, and an impious attempt to improve the works of the Creator. (90)”
Page 415 “ The chaste severity of the fathers in whatever related to the commerce of the two sexes flowed from the same principle - their abhorrence of every enjoyment which might gratify the sensual and degrade the spiritual nature of man. It was their favourite opinion, that if Adam had preserved his obedience to the Creator, he would have lived for ever in a state of virgin purity, and that some harmless mode of vegetation might have peopled paradise with a race of innocent and immortal beings. (91) The use of marriage was permitted only to his fallen posterity, as a necessary expedient to continue the human species, and as a restraint, however imperfect, on the natural licentiousness of desire
”Also on page 415
“The enumeration of the very whimsical laws which they most circumstantially imposed on the marriage-bed would force a smile from the young and a blush from the fair. It was their unanimous sentiment that a first marriage was adequate to all the purposes of nature and of society. The sensual connection was refined into a resemblance of the mystic union of Christ with his church, and was pronounced to be indissoluble either by divorce or by death. The practice of second nuptials was branded with the name of a legal adultery; and the persons who were guilty of so scandalous an offence against Christian purity were soon excluded from the honours, and even from the arms, of the church.(93)”
And lastly from page 417
“The ambition of raising themselves or their friends to the honours and offices of the church was disguised by the laudable intention of devoting to the public benefit the power and consideration which, for that purpose only, it became their duty to solicit. In the exercise of their functions they were frequently called upon to detect the errors of heresy or the arts of faction, to oppose the designs of perfidious bethren, to stigmatise their characters with deserved infamy, and to expel them from the bosom of a society whose peace and happiness they had attempted to disturb. The ecclesiastical governors of the Christians were taught to unite the wisdom of the serpent with the innocence of the dove; but as the former was refined, so the latter was insensibly corrupted, by the habits of government.
Notice in all of the quotes from The Decline and Fall of the , The Christens, were going above and beyond the call of duty to prove just how entirely righteous they were. How many of these practices were totally opposite the teachings of Christ? Yes according to this book, the first Christians did not join the military, or use pillows, or remarry after there mate passed away.
Well in the end I would think join the military is mostly a personal choice
What do you people think?
I am sorry, i am tired, and i have not prof read this, if it is incoherint, i will fix it later.
L3gi0n - Mark 5:9
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The sad fact
by l3gi0n ineast stone gap, va. .
edward j. farmer, 79, died - tuesday (nov. 20, .
2001) at heritage hall healthcare in big stone gap, va. .
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l3gi0n
EAST STONE GAP, Va.
Edward J. Farmer, 79, died - Tuesday (Nov. 20,
2001) at Heritage Hall Healthcare in Big Stone Gap, Va.
He was born in Boston, Ind., the son of the late James Frank Farmer
and Garnett Leonard Farmer. He had resided in East Stone Gap for
over 50 years. He was a former employee of the Clinch Haven Dairy
Farm and was retired from Westmoreland Coal Co.
He was a member of the UMWA District No. 28. He was a U.S. Army
veteran of World War II, having served in the Pacific Theater. He
was of the Protestant faith.he died at 79, WWII Vet, Borne in 1922, Served at the age of 22 or 23,
Hey didnt christ pick the 144,000 in 1914? I thought they were in there 70's and 80's now? humm something is sadly wrong.
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Jehovah & the Military
by MMTP ini'm not quite sure how to start this one, i'm new here and feel a bit of an outsider.
my sisters and mother are jehovah's witnesses and have been as long as i can remember.
i however, chose to follow a different path.
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l3gi0n
Thank you for posting, I have been researching this very dilemma my self for the last few days. I have been a witness for 27 years, although never baptized, due to person doubt. In the last few weeks, I have been thinking of actually joining the military, so I have been reading various passages in the bible, and books on the subject, I am sorry but there is no easy answer. I will post my finding later tonight, I want some comments on them,
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Romans 14,
by l3gi0n inwhat is your thought on romans 14?
is only about food, or could you use it to argue it that you can celebrate thanksgiving, xmas.
maybe it is ok if a woman dose not wear a hat when praying and so on, if it dose not bother you.
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l3gi0n
What is your thought on Romans 14? Is only about food, or could you use it to argue it that you can celebrate thanksgiving, Xmas. Maybe it is ok if a woman dose not wear a hat when praying and so on, if it dose not bother you.
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The Watchtowers Investments in Warfare Technology
by l3gi0n inthis cant really be true, can it?
the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.
i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.
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l3gi0n
I am Awake!, It’s just hard to believe. I stopped going to meeting a year ago, and have had serious doubts since I was about 15 years old.( I am almost 30 now) Infact I never was baptized. I have always assumed I was wrong, and that I had a bad heart This hard to believe. It is just too much. The problem is that it really challenges every thing I believe in.
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The Watchtowers Investments in Warfare Technology
by l3gi0n inthis cant really be true, can it?
the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.
i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.
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l3gi0n
This cant really be true, Can it? The papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the WT. I know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.
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What are the specs of your computer?
by JH inso many threads on pictures, and desktops, how about telling us a few specs of your computer.
my computer is 3.5 years old.
-20 gig hard disc "maxtor".
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l3gi0n
how can i not post?
+ i have 8, but will only give the specs of the 4 i use the most.,
Compaq N410C laptop W docking station, 24x CDRW, 512 megs ram XP pro
AMD XP 2000, 1 gig ram 320 HD Raid0 (4x80) with audigy, and radeon 9700 Xp pro and a fat 17" TFT
IBM Net Vista 800mhz, PIII 256 megs ram, with 15" Tft built in. Redhat 9.0
Compaq 233 W 128 megs ram, two nic's runing as a router/firewall (ipcop)
I have a few more, but they are mac's or dos machines, one is a PDC (compaq Deskpro EN @ 733), but i am goin to get rid of them i think, I really dont need 8 computers. anyone want to guess what i do for a liveing?
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What are the specs of your computer?
by JH inso many threads on pictures, and desktops, how about telling us a few specs of your computer.
my computer is 3.5 years old.
-20 gig hard disc "maxtor".
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l3gi0n
how can i not post?
+ i have 8, but will only give the specs of the 4 i use the most.,
Compaq N410C laptop W docking station, 24x CDRW, 512 megs ram XP pro
AMD XP 2000, 1 gig ram 320 HD Raid0 (4x80) with audigy, and radeon 9700 Xp pro and a fat 17" TFT
IBM Net Vista 800mhz, PIII 256 megs ram, with 15" Tft built in. Redhat 9.0
Compaq 233 W 128 megs ram, two nic's runing as a router/firewall (ipcop)
I have a few more, but they are mac's or dos machines, one is a PDC (compaq Deskpro EN @ 733), but i am goin to get rid of them i think, I really dont need 8 computers. anyone want to guess what i do for a liveing?
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l3gi0n
has the WT ever state how manny people they think died in the flood?