That's ok, Bob. If they come here to do the same the board admins will cut them off too.
Posts by Roddy
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7Jehovah's Witness New Forum on facebook is now by invitation only
by bob1999 inand they delete any thread that threatens them.. .
needless to say my threads have all been deleted.. .
http://www.facebook.com/board.php?uid=51298429787#/group.php?gid=51298429787.
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35
Did there ever come a time where the meetings became unbearable?
by RULES & REGULATIONS ini try to attend about 3 sunday meetings per month just to keep my whole family from disowning me.
every week the meetings become more difficult to attend.. the singing is awful,the prayers are all about the ''faithful and discreet slave''.the talks are boring and repetative.the watchtower study reminds of trained seals at the zoo where they do the same tricks over and over just so they can get their treat of fresh fish.
the answers are short and read off the watchtower magazine word for word.
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Roddy
I attended the Sunday meeting about a month ago because I thought a mutual friend was going to give the talk. Mistaken identity.
Anyway, the speaker was so intellectually handicapped, vocabulary challenged, and used so many stereotypic cliché and generalities I felt genuinely embarrassed for anyone sitting there listening to this speech.
Let me tell you how bad it was: The boring Watchtower study that followed was actually interesting by comparison!!!
I thought I was going to pull out all my hair!
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Question about Prodigal Son parable
by tsar_robles inwell, after much thought put into it i decided to send a letter requesting reinstatement.
i met with the jc and tried to reason with them on the prodigal son parable... how the father in this parable did not put his son through a waiting or probationary period, etc but rather embraced him on the spot... their answer was that the 'walk' to his father's home represents meeting attendance... in other words, the 'works' that befit repentance... any ideas???.
i reminded them that in the last 3 years i've attempted to attend the meetings and yet the anxiety that developed brought me tangible unknown illnesses and symptoms that were unbearable and thus had to stop attending... i was told that i had to find a way to make meetings though; that i'd not die because of that.... i was asked how long did i attend meetings in my last attempt and i said about 4 months... "well, that's about 48 meetings... so say you went to 30 meetings..." i said: "no, i hardly missed any meetings and when i did i made sure the p.0.
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Roddy
tsar robles, I think those elders were being a bit cruel and demanding. Does it have to get to the point that the PO has to sign an attendance sheet just to keep them honest?
"Dear Brother PO,
I have this spreadsheet for you to initial in the approprite box to remind you, the elders, and myself I've attended this meeting. This is because when this issue was raised about my meeting attendance you denied it, the elders in the JC never heard of it, and it boilded down to a my word vs. their word situation. And naturally, I lost and I'm still disfellowshipped.
So, if you don't mind, please initial the box for today for our mutual record. If you like a copy for yourself, I can make another spreadsheet just for you so you can mark both. I appreciate your cooperation."
Sheesh! Talk about taking care of Christ's little lambs!
If they refuse, I suggest you attend a different congregation and say you want to be reinstated there. Just say that there is more love in their congregation than in the congregation you were disfellowshipped from. I'm sure they'll feel flattered and not give you as much trouble -- especially if it is true. And see what happens.
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What is the WTS financial position?
by Roddy ini know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.
pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.
how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.
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Roddy
I have heard from a well placed insider that is incredibly strong....old money invested wisely................oompa
If so, we should find out what is in their investment portfolio and play along for the ride.
I heard that their investment is in a company that's attached or involved in the military? All we need now is a good war! LOL
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What is the WTS financial position?
by Roddy ini know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.
pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.
how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.
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What is the WTS financial position?
by Roddy ini know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.
pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.
how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.
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Roddy
Unfortunately, we don't have any way of knowing what their true financial position is. I doubt that even the governing body has a good idea of how they are doing financially. I think it is plausible that they might have much more money than they indicate. Their cost cutting could be just a ploy to encourage donations while keeping expenses low. It might depend on whether the people who handle the money actually believe in the religion. If not, they might be diverting funds elsewhere or hiding money in case the organisation collapses.
On the other hand, their financial position could be much worse than we are led to believe. I could see this being the case if they made bad investments or are making secret settlements to avoid highly publicised lawsuits.
As long as they handle their money wisely, they should be able to meet their modest expenses (considering all the free labor they use) while squeezing the poor publishers for money and enjoying occasional windfalls when they die and name the Watchtower society in their wills. I think they are probably more concerned that the legal climate could change and they will have to face an avalanche of lawsuits. That could bankrupt them.
Those are good points, DT. Thanks.
I forgot about the varioius kinds of lawsuits they contend with constantly. Let's never forget that they obviously have good legal talent whether somehow acquired, maintain at not small expense, or a mix of both.
The governing body is probably too old to care or comprehend what's going on. I think they and a bunch of other older career Bethelites are just hoping for all-expenses-paid retirement whether they are devoted to the religion or not. They really have no place to go so that is motivation enough.
I heard that they do have secret (or perhaps not so secret) stocks and investments. I don't know how those are performing during the economic depression we're in. And if they have more plans for layoffs and real estate sell-offs of other Brooklyn facilities, what they could get for them now is much less than if they sold them off two years ago. But much of it still is prime waterfront and near waterfront property.
And the irony is the WTS should be glad at being victims of their own success. What I mean is that by encouraging the rank and file to give up good paying jobs, higher education to get well paying jobs, and job promotions for better pay in order to be Pioneer part-timers at menial jobs, they have this vast devoted free labor force that can only afford to give WTS menial donations.
But no one really explains that being a Pioneer is an expensive "occupation" that is encouraged by the WTS but not supported by the WTS.
Of course, I feel for those that come up to their retirement years and have nothing to show for it. Or those that need medical or dental attention but have no medical or dental insurance to help them. And other similarly sad situations.
Seems that the only thing that the WTS will give for free is no-blood support. But they will also give you free total cut-off with disfellowshipment if you decide to not follow their "free" no-blood advice. So much reward for so many years of free devoted service!
It's human robbery. So much human robbery at every level it just blows my mind!
I know that what took it over the top for me is when the elders secretly gave the deed of the Kingdom Hall to the WTS. I learned that this is common practice and the congregation is never informed of this. So the congregation brings upon it the mortgage of the property but it is turned-over to the WTS in a secret meeting? That means that in the United States alone the WTS holds the deed to every kingdom hall property. I guess that's a vast real estate block they can loan against when their finances gets critical. What will be interesting is when the WTS can't pay the loan. Does that mean kingdom halls will be liquidated or the rank-and-file is obligated to give the WTS a "bailout"?
As you can see I'm letting my imagination run wild. LOL! But it will be interesting how they play their financial cards and how the rank-and-file will react.
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What is the WTS financial position?
by Roddy ini know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.
pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.
how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.
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Roddy
I know this may seen an obvious question but I'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.
We know of the large real estate sell-offs in Brooklyn and their large Bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications. Pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations. How they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations. And of their summer conventions - hosting more of them in their assembly halls by dividing their districts instead of renting stadiums and large public facilites as they done in the past. But are they getting more desperate in the last five years or so?
Moving the "congregation" book study from individual homes to the congregation was a necessary consession. Because the rank and file had to put more and more of their "donations" money into traveling expenses instead of in the congregation's donation boxes. (No, I'm cynical of the WTS published reasons for this adjustment - it wasn't to ease the burden on the brothers but to hope they get more money dropped into the congregation's donation boxes.)
I think the next moves we'll see from the WTS really translates to evidence of their declining financial health.
I'm also sure they are thinking of a new plan to extract new money from the rank and file somehow. I'll bet I know what it is -- secret "donations" of the congregation funds to the WTS by the congregation's elder body. Much of what they do when they have the Circuit Assembly elder's meeting -- the rubberstamp approval of the circuit "donating" circuit money to the WTS - which the circuit never knows about publically.
This will be interesting.
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Raymond Franz: Charge in financial affairs!
by IMercenary1975 innot so long ago on a russian-speaking resource http://antifranz.narod.ru/ was published a volume article in style "contra apion" named "franzizm".
i was extremely interested by that fact that the author of article has mentioned about some mystical letters from gb in branches in connection with an expelling of ray frenz.
ostensibly in these letters said that raymond franz has been expelled for financial affairs.
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So what is the REAL deal with the International Convention
by av8orntexas inyou know i was baptized in 96 and all this time my understanding of the international convention is that there is one a year ?
you have to be accepted to go correct ?
i was always put off by that.
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Roddy
His wife and I work at the same company, a major US airline, they could fly there FREE !!!!!!! Why are you forced to pay the crazy amount that the WTS says pay ? I never got this. Has anyone here ever gone and worked 2-3 jobs to go, and most of all was it worth it or what you thought it would be ?
It comes off as a status symbol among some dubs I've heard speak about it
Good for them!
I think the main reason is for PR. They make it a big show -- especially in areas where the convention are held where it was banned in that country previously. Then watch for pictures and commentary in the pages of the Watchower magazines and other publications later on.
Rather than the WTS pay JWs to go, just make traveling there a spiritual privilage. Nice trick, actually.
Kind of like the old conventions at Cedar Point Ohio.
Make no mistake about it - Cedar Point was a resort/amusement park which was strategically located in the center of the United States near the major railroad hub of the country. So it was accessable from any point in the United States and Canada. All a foreign traveler had to do was make it to a United States shore and hop on a train.
I'm sure there was a lot of hype making conventions at this resort/amusement park town some sort of spiritual privilage too -- if you make the time, effort, and assume the expense to do it. Of course, those that work at the WTS gets to go this resort/amusement park for free paid for by "voluntary donations".
I'm not sure which was the stronger draw that convention: The fact that it was Cedar Point or attending the convention for more of the same information and a new publication release?
Are the modern foreign conventions any different?
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Roddy
Over emotional to what? Challenges to their religion?
Remember that many of them gave their lives to the religion. Their hopes, their dreams, their retirement, their prospects for marriage and children, their having a better life for themselves and their families, being part of their natural family's life, their old friends, and great many more.
The idea that they made a grave lifelong mistake - and that have and are encouraging others into that same grave mistake - will result in an over emotional protectional response.