I echo the other's who have said this is a well expressed summation of the progression.
I found my way alittle bit more round about, but the conclusion was the same.
I like how you said it though, it was much more salient than my version LOL
outbackaussie
JoinedPosts by outbackaussie
-
111
The Watchtower Didn't Make Me An Atheist
by B_Deserter inive posted on this before, but i figured i should lay my thoughts out again on the subject.
there are some in the ex-jw community who are saddened because the watchtower organization has turned me and others like me off to god.
the watchtower attacks and debunks other religions on a regular basis, often giving us the sense that if the watchtower is wrong, then there cant be a god.
-
-
-
63
in love with a JW
by jimcic inhi im new here but i came for advice im not a religous person but i'm in love with a jehovahs witness,.
she says she also loves me very much but she wants me to jump ship and become a witness,.
do you think there is some way that the two of us can be together or am i just dreaming,.
-
-
outbackaussie
I think this conversation shows that there is really no hard and fast, consistent application of any real guideline or rules. It is hit and miss, dependant on the local elders and the relationship each member has with that congregation. Noone can easily point to a solid standard, just the whimsy of judgmental men and the varying levels of guilt and distress each transgressing member that causes them to submit to a judicial committee.
I believe that every individual needs to assess their own circumstances when trying to decide what is the best course of action. If I had listened to the large volumes of advice given to me back then, I would not have married my darling husband and borne two delightful children. I feel I am fairly fortunate now as my witness family members for reasons of their own choosing, still talk to me. Technically I am still probably a witness though considered inactive. I really don't care myself, if it helps them sleep at night then fine. If they ever ask me directly I will tell them I don't consider myself to be of any faith and that I don't believe in a supreme being. But they haven't asked yet.
So, I am suggesting that my circumstances are not necessarily reflective of other people's experiences, they are simply what happened to me. My disfellowshipping was incredibly traumatic for me, and in some ways my reinstatement was worse. It took many years before I could think of these days without intense anger and pain. What I take from this is that I have demonstrated to myself and my family that I could and have stayed in a strong supportive marriage with someone who was not a JW and that we are happy and enjoy our lives. Isn't that what is most important in the end? Happiness.
-
63
in love with a JW
by jimcic inhi im new here but i came for advice im not a religous person but i'm in love with a jehovahs witness,.
she says she also loves me very much but she wants me to jump ship and become a witness,.
do you think there is some way that the two of us can be together or am i just dreaming,.
-
-
outbackaussie
@ isaacaustin - What is weird for me now, is that looking back, I am pretty sure I was not an isolated case. I know of at least 2 other girls in my circuit who had similar experiences. Maybe it was just a late-80's Australian quirk *shrug* but I know myself and my best friend were both DF within months of each other and reinstated about the same timeframe apart and both drifted away. And neither of us would have said we shared a similar experience at the time, the circumstances were different enough that we never felt we were being targeted or anything. Maybe we just had a bad bunch of elders. Oh wait.. that would be all of them.
**edited to add, I feel abit guilty for derailing the original thread.. but the OP really struck a chord with me, so apologies for being abit of a monopoly on the topic here.
-
63
in love with a JW
by jimcic inhi im new here but i came for advice im not a religous person but i'm in love with a jehovahs witness,.
she says she also loves me very much but she wants me to jump ship and become a witness,.
do you think there is some way that the two of us can be together or am i just dreaming,.
-
-
outbackaussie
Reniaa, how exactly do you suggest I provide proof when you don't get a copy of anything from the elders? It is merely their collective word against yours. Nothing is recorded as far as I know. I am simply relating my side of the story, as I found it to be. I was not disfellowshipped for marrying a non-witness. I wasn't married when I was DF'd, I was just dating. The official reason for my excommunication was my unrepentant attitude, borne out by my unwillingness to break off my relationship with my boyfriend who was worldly. I was told to stop seeing my boyfriend or it will show I am hard of heart and not accepting of the reproof of the judicial committee. All I have from then is my diary pages and my memory.
We got married some months after I was DF'd, which was all part of my efforts to "prove" I was repentant of my alleged sin and ready to be reinstated to the congregation. So, you tell me Reniaa, what do you want to hear? Do you want to hear about the questions they asked me when I tearfully begged to be allowed back into the congregation? Do you want to know how I had to describe in detail the frequency and nature of the sex I had with my husband? Just what proof do you want about my DF, Sister Reniaa?
-
24
People from here I miss
by Mickey mouse ini've noticed a few people have gone mia, especially since the website changed or perhaps they have just moved on?.
people whose posts i used to enjoy: lex talionis, not a prolific poster but interesting all the same.
octarine prince, lady zombie, galileo, terry.. who do you miss?.
-
-
outbackaussie
I used to like chatting with Kelpie back when I first found the site. And Aztec was another name I remember from then. And Ozziepost's fun lists.
-
63
in love with a JW
by jimcic inhi im new here but i came for advice im not a religous person but i'm in love with a jehovahs witness,.
she says she also loves me very much but she wants me to jump ship and become a witness,.
do you think there is some way that the two of us can be together or am i just dreaming,.
-
-
outbackaussie
@ Jimcic - I was once a fully-fledged JW who was totally committed to the principles of the Organisation. I met a guy who was not in the "truth" as they call it. He was a couple of years older than me, I was 17 at the time. He was open to studying with one of the guys from the congregation, and that happened for a few months. The trouble was, the studies couldn't answer his questions about god and faith. He was and still is an atheist. Several months passed and I decided that being with him was what I wanted. It meant going through a judicial committee, which is a meeting of myself and 3 of the congregation elders. They subjected me to intense questioning about my relationship with my new boyfriend. I was honest and told them I had had "impure thoughts" and we had engaged in what I then thought was "heavy petting" (side note... kissing with tongues was what I thought was heavy petting, shows what a prude I was then! ) and on that basis I was disfellowshipped because I told them I was going to continue to see him. They said I was to have nothing to do with him as he was a non-believer and worse, an atheist.
I was disfellowshipped. My family ceased to talk to me. At 17 and 8 months I left home and moved in to a caravan with my boyfriend. At 18 and 1 month we got married. My only family who came were ones who were not in the "truth". My mum and brothers, aunt and cousins and grandparents didn't come nor send a card. That was in April 1990. Next year we will be married for 20 years.
Curiously, I was reinstated into the "truth" after about a year of being on the outside. I then had somewhat of an epiphany.. while having my bible study with one of the congregation approved sisters I was told by her that I was very lucky to be allowed back in, and that she personally thought I was going to be killed at armageddon anyway. Turned out that many thought I should not have "had my cake and been allowed to eat it too" as the saying goes. That was when I saw this church for what it was. Not filled with love nor preaching tolerance and forgiveness. So I stopped going. Noone really noticed and life moved on.
I wish you well in your future, if this girl you care for has the depth of feeling for you that I had for my husband then I am sure you will find a way to make it work. I would only add that for me, it was a very hard path, and one that I sometimes fell from because of the pressure to be a "good witness". There will be alot of guilt, tears and pain and I think you should be prepared for that. But there is hope and joy if you can weather the storm.
Peace,
Tiffany
-
14
Be prepared for a Good cry...
by ohiocowboy inwatch the video.
my eyes are still watery.
happy tears.
-
-
outbackaussie
That was delightful, thanks for posting that up. I love seeing happy families :D
-
22
My JW Daughter's M-I-L Tries to Shun Me in Bank Parking Lot- Sad / Funny
by flipper inthe way the jehovah's witnesses treat us is so bizarre - you couldn't make this stuff up !
have i ever had two weeks from jw hell.
so i parked at the bank and as i was getting out of my truck my jw's daughter's mother in law ( also jw ) was walking to her truck.
-
-
outbackaussie
When I was df'd, I was going to meetings with mum and 3 brothers. We had to rely on others for transport to the meeting. An older sister used to pick us up. I was always under strict instructions not to say anything so as not to make her feel uncomfortable. Fine, whatever, I was 17 and in a world of hurt anyway. She used to chat away to mum and my brothers and I was like a stain on the carseat.
One night on the way home, her car got a flat. It was pouring rain. I asked her for the key to open the boot (trunk for you US folks) to get the spare out. I changed the wheel over, in my fancy, modest meeting dress in the drenching rain. I wrapped myself in a blanket she had in the boot and gave her the keys back. She thanked... my mum. Never once looked at me.
It's such a loving way to show those who sinned what they are missing ;) Sorry you are dealing with this drama now Mr Flipper, as much as we can try to laugh it off, it still hurts somewhere down deep. *hugs*
-
24
Sad ending to a sad era ...
by The Berean inwhile i am new to this network, the evidence seems to be overwhelming that the wbts is in decline.
while many voice their pleasure at this prospect, it is in many ways sad for me:.
it is sad that so many have spent such a great quantity of their early lives supporting a cause that appears to have been a waste of time.
-
-
outbackaussie
@ Garybus and PP - surely you don't think it is just that easy? It has many more layers that just a simple "get over it". I don't think people would mind being shunned by "some jerk" but for most it is family and what they thought were friends. Can be pretty hard to reconcile that kind of emotion and still come out sane.
-
22
Is there a GROWING AWARENESS among Jehovah's Witnesses that SOMETHING is REALLY WRONG with the Organization?
by BonaFide ini hope i can explain this clearly.
years ago, we all knew what a child molester was.
but there were a lot of misconceptions, mishandled situations in and out of the congregations, and just a general non-awareness of the seriousness and pervasiveness of pedophiles.. not anymore.
-
-
outbackaussie
I would like to think that it would be possible that those still in would 'wake up' to the realities, but like LWT says, I think when confronted with that sort of thinking, it just serves to reinforce the whole "satan is using all angles to persecute us" mindset. It's a lose-lose thing. Even when you are in the thick of being disfellowshiped/shunned/ridiculed by family and friends you still find many blaming themselves, never the organisation etc.
Awareness of evil things occuring doesn't mean that witnesses will equate that with evilness being inherent in the WTBTS structure/authorities. And if you spelled it out 'writing on the wall' style, they would still find a way to dress it differently so it fits with the training, not the reality.