I think i have to agree with TD, the one time id did have sex before marriage the thrill made me want her even more and i would have married her in a heart beat. she was totally not compatiable as a person to me. And then my wife and i are much more compatable as people but over time her desire for sex and even any intamacy has gone away. People change and sex just clouds your perspective.
Crazyguy
JoinedPosts by Crazyguy
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Sex before marriage would eliminate a lot of unhappy marriages in the Borg...
by sinis insensible, safe sex, in my opinion, should be engaged in.
because, as you get older and are ready to settle down, you will look at your potential sole mate, not for sexual reasons, but for what they have to offer mentally and if they are compatible.
when religion restricts this, and yuo must marry to have sex, i believe that you doom a marriage at the outset, because these young folks marry out of lust, only to have the rose colored blinders pulled off later, and regret the entire arrangement... .
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weres the money??
by Crazyguy inevery one or most here seem to think the wt is in it for the money, if so any one have any ideas about were the moneys going and what its paying for??
?.
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Crazyguy
Every one or most here seem to think the WT is in it for the money, if so any one have any ideas about were the moneys going and what its paying for???
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What do you believe about the bible?
by bethelyellowdollarbag ini'm interested in how we all view the bible?.
let me start by offering three different options:.
a.. a book that at best may have cultural or historical interest but that is it.. b.. a divinely inspired guide that i consult to make important life choices.
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Crazyguy
I believe the bible to be an inspired book, its man that screwes it all up. Many here do not realize that they were told all thier lives that the JW religion was the one and true religion. When they realized that it was not true thier emotional natural reaction was to be discusted and to also throw off any thing religion including the bible. Thats what Satan was hoping for all the time, and this is what many of you do not realize.
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They've been counterfeiting for over a hundred years! What's the harm???
by Terry indid you ever take the time to sit down and figure out why a counterfeit hundred dollar bill is a bad thing?.
you might reply quickly, "well, duh--you'll spend 20 years in the penitentiary if they catch you doing it!".
as if "getting caught" is the problem............. it isn't.. .
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Crazyguy
Good way of looking at it.
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Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Crazyguy
Exactly from 609- 539bce. end of story
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July 15th Study Edition Is Up..
by confusedteenager innot sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but yeah.
they just posted up the new watchtower...with the confusing new information.. time for me to go dive into this "new light" and try to see what sense it makes.
of course cedars already nicely did a run down for us.. .
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Crazyguy
one thing to Note in Acts the 1st chapter the angels said to the apostles that Jesus would come cack the same way he left, not this invisable presence idea that they the WT. said happened in 1914.
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Analysis of anti-607 BCE Rebuttals
by Ethos ini agreed yesterday to engage in the '607' topic.
i've read numerous threads and am well aware that this topic has been addressed and dissected quite thoroughly.
therefore, if you are uninterested in participating, that's fine.
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Crazyguy
Daniel and the other first captives would have been in captivity for over 83 years had Jerusalem been destroy in 607. Jehovah doesnt work that way, in the time of Moses when the Israelites were punished and forbidden entry in to the promise land, the 40 years were exatly from the time of leaving eygpt til entry. Also if the desolation was from the time of the destruction of the city then daniel would of known exactly how long they would be in babylon, but he did not. One other note who said they idea of taking the 7 years that Neb. ate like a cow and times it by some other number and then another number means anything at all. John A Brown came up with that idea and the math back in the early 1800's. Whos this guy, and was he demon possesed? The apostles of the first century had at thier disposal all the texts before Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ce., yet they did not write down any where or in the Bible that Jesus was coming back in 1914. This idea and caculation should be put to rest as stupid musings of men.
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Disfellowshipped for PARTAKING
by irondork ini wonder if anyone has ever been disfellowshipped just for partaking.
of course they would eventually tag it as apostacy, but the real reason would stand - and could get the attention of local media.. .
the newsies tend to shy away from doctrinal entanglements, but the idea of a "christian" church disfellowshipping one of their own for taking the sacrament - surely that would raise someones eyebrow.
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Crazyguy
the scriptures do not say only the anointed to partake, that was a Rutherford invention. check the Vindication 3 book, he thought the great growd-mutitude unworthy.
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just curious. How about blood?
by never a jw ini have never been a jw, but i have lived literally surrounded by them since i married my wife, almost 20 years ago.
since i never raised a fuss before, i guess i was also brain-washed into thnking that their religion was harmless and the leaders were well intended.. i have been reading your comments for many months and have come to realize how harmful the religion is.
your comments have been mostly about the pain inflicted by shunning, deception in the literature, and the views on higher education.
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Crazyguy
Just like thier organ trasplant ideas that went on for nearly 13 years, how many died for that too. We are told not to go beyond scripture, and they do it any way.
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Proper understanding of the Mediator & New Covenant
by Crazyguy inmediator and the new covenant.
the society has taught that only the 144,000 are to par-take of the emblems and jesus only mediates and died for them.
"he is the mediator between his heavenly father, jehovah god, and the nation of spiritual israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.
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Crazyguy
MEDIATOR and the New Covenant
The Society has taught that only the 144,000 are to par-take of the emblems and Jesus only mediates and died for them.
"He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. " Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" (1986) pp.10-11
Likewise, the Greater Moses, "Jesus knew that he was going to purchase these anointed ones with his own blood, so he fittingly referred to them collectively as his slave." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members." Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace" pp.10-11
"Is Jesus the "mediator" only for anointed Christians? ... So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians ." Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31
? Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?
The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16) At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.” So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.
The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge. For more detailed information, see AidtoBibleUnderstanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s“EternalPurpose”NowTriumphingforMan’sGood, page 160, paragraph 10; also TheWatchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.” WT. 1979 4/1 pg.31
Is this correct since the bible seems to clearly state otherwise?
John 3: 16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
1 Timothy 2;5,6 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human, who gave himself-a ransom for all,
Hebrews 9;28, Acts 13;38-39, Romans 3;21-25 Hebrews 7;25-27
So I attempted to find the correct understanding behind this teaching and if this is correct and here is what I found. I went to their CD library and looked at all their info about the subject and then researched even more since this opens up a can of worms. First I searched under the heading of 'Mediator' , then the term 'spiritual Israel' , 'Israel of god ', 'New Covenant', 'little flock', etc., etc.
One way I could compare their understanding and its accuracy is to compare the New Covenant with that of the Old Covenant [Hebrews 9;14,15] [Ga. 3;26] made with Israel after they had just been delivered out of Egypt. This is what they say about 'house of Israel'-'Israel of god' and 'the spiritual Israel'.
Wt 1979 Nov 15 th pg27
“ MEDIATOR”TOHOWMANY?
11 However, was God making the new covenant with the natural, fleshly “house of Israel” and the natural, fleshly “house of Judah”? How could that be possible, inasmuch as the natural Jews of those two houses had violently rejected the prospective Mediator of that new covenant and were, as a nation, celebrating the Pentecostal festival on the appointed day at the temple in Jerusalem? God could not do so. He had in mind to conclude the new covenant with the newly born Christian Israel, the spiritual Israel, it having its birth on that very Pentecostal day when the “holy spirit fell upon” the baptized disciples of Jesus Christ, about 120 of them. (Acts 11:15) These had waited, not at the temple, but in an upper room in Jerusalem. There those disciples, already immersed in water, were begotten by God’s spirit to become his spiritual children, “the Israel of God.” As such they were introduced into the new covenant through the heavenly Mediator, Jesus Christ, the Prophet greater than Moses.—Acts 2:1-36; Joel 2:28, 29; John 3:3, 5; Gal. 6:16.
Jehovah rejected the literal nation of Israel Jer. 31;35-37 so the terms listed above in my understanding, is just used to describe the new Spiritual Nation, 'Israel of God' of people that are not literally of one race or a literal nation. Rom 9;6-8 Ephesian.2;19-21 Ga 6;16
The Society then infers now or at one time, that the 'other-sheep' or 'great crowd' is not of the 'Israel of God' or spiritual Israel but alien residents.
"They recognize that they are not spiritual Israelites in the new covenant mediated by Jesus Christ, nor part of the "chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation."-1 Pet. 2:9. Yet they do benefit from the operation of the new covenant. They benefit from this just as, in ancient Israel, the "alien resident" benefited from residing in among the Israelites who were in the Law covenant.-Ex. 20:10; Le. 19:10, 33, 34; Rev. 7:9-15. To keep in relationship with "our Savior, God," the "great crowd" needs to remain united with the remnant of spiritual Israelites." Watchtower 1979 Nov 15 p.27 Benefiting from "One Mediator Between God and Men"
"Since a number of these faithful foreigners, or alien residents, are viewed as foreshadowing the great crowd today, their situation is of interest to us. 13 Such ones were proselytes, dedicated worshipers of Jehovah under the Mosaic Law who were separated from the nations along with the Israelites. (Leviticus 24:22) They offered sacrifices, kept clear of false worship, and abstained from blood, just as the Israelites did." Watchtower 1995 Jul 1 p.17 "The Israel of God" and the "Great Crowd"
Worldwide security 1986 pg10 18 In ancient times, there were non-Jews, such as the Nethinim and the sons of non-Israelite servants of Solomon, who were associated with the nation of Israel. (Ezra 2:43-58; 8:17-20) Similarly today, there are men and women who are wholly dedicated to God through Jesus Christ but who are not spiritual Israelite s. They are, however, associated with the remnant of spiritual Israel because of dedicating themselves to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, “who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.” (1 Timothy 2:6) Today, these far outnumber the 144,000 spiritual Israelite s, who are to inherit the heavenly Kingdom.
But if you go back and look at the old law arrangement the Aliens Resident could par-take during the passover and live under the old covenant they just had to first be circumcised and then agree to live by the rules of the law. Exodus 12;48
They the Society even confirm this.
"The terms of the Law covenant allowed for persons of all national backgrounds to come into membership of the congregation of Israel by accepting the true worship of Jehovah and becoming circumcised The alien resident who had become a circumcised worshiper was bound to one law with the Israelites, that is, to obey all the terms of the Law covenant." Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 1 p.72 Alien Resident
As I research even more, another understanding that the Society seems to have concerning only the Anointed to par-take was their thought that Jesus made a covenant with the apostles for a kingdom and to be joint heirs with him to be priests and kings.
Wt. 1985 2/15?
9 There is something else that should not be overlooked. Jesus discussed two related covenants with his disciples, “the new covenant” and ‘a covenant for a kingdom.’ (Luke 22:20, 28-30) Both covenants had to do with the partakers’ being in line to share as priests and kings with Christ Jesus. But in Israel no circumcised alien resident could ever become a priest or a king. In this respect, also, we find a distinction between the Passover feast in Israel and the Lord’s Evening Meal.
Is this incorrect? If you look at Luke 22;28-30 this discussion with the apostles about a kingdom for them was at a different time and after the discussion about the New Covenant. Also this discussion for a kingdom is also discussed in Matthew 19;27-30 and Luke 12;32 showing it was discussed at even an earlier time altogether before the New Covenant meal. The Greek words [diatithemai, dietheto] used in the verse Luke 28;29 do not mean covenant, but the more accurate words in English is appoint or promise and this is what other bible translations use. [realized this using my new bible app.] So this later discussion is not about the New Covenant at all as it would seem, its a promise made by Jesus and does not need to be mediated.
The Society also likes to use the statement 'other-sheep' to show another group and to separate the groups into two, 144k class [going to heaven] and then the rest of us. But is this correct, because if you look at when Jesus was talking about this 'other-sheep' he had not mentioned or promised the kingdom yet to his apostles.
G oing back to John 9:40 you'll see that his discussion of the sheep started with a question that was asked by the Pharisees ('But when some of the Pharisees who were with him heard this, they asked, We aren't blind also, are we? ' Now, Jesus obviously didn't mean that the Pharisees were in this fold [pen] if it meant a destiny of heavenly life. So, it is clear that the true meaning of his illustration was that the first fold [pen] represented an entire group, among whom the Pharisees were included. So logically he was actually talking about the coming gentiles and how they would soon enter the same flock. Again John 10:16 he says 'one flock, one Shepard' Ephesians 2;11-22 and 3;6 Heb.2;11-22 Gal 3;8
And look at all the scriptures that could be prophesying to the coming of the gentiles..... Psalms 22:27....86:9 Isaiah 2:2....11:10 ...49:6 Haggai 2:7 Zechariah 8:23
The Society also likes to quote. 1Peter 2;9 'But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy-nation but look at these similarities Exodus 19;6 'And you yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy-nation'. These are the words that you are to say to the sons of Israel. And we know from other scriptures that the literal nation of Israel was also a chosen race.
The last subject I could find was the society mentioned in an article [below] that since he told them they were to drink the wine meaning his blood that again it was reserved for just the anointed. The Scripture does not imply drinking the blood but rather it symbolizes a pouring out as a sacrifice. Luke 22;20 Matt. 26; 26-28 Asv. Esv. Niv.
Wt 1985 2/15? the other sheep and the lords evening meal
8 Nevertheless, the Passover was not strictly a type of the Lord’s Evening Meal. Why not? When the Passover was instituted in Egypt, the flesh of the roasted lamb was eaten, but none of the blood of the Passover lamb was eaten. In contrast, however, when Jesus instituted the Memorial of his death he specifically instructed those then present to eat his flesh and drink his blood, symbolized by the bread and the wine. (Exodus 12:7, 8; Matthew 26:27, 28) In this very important aspect—the blood—the Passover was not a type of the Lord’s Evening Meal.
Sons of God
Then the question arises, 'Aren't just those who are chosen for heavenly life the sons of God?' Well, notice what Paul wrote about who the true sons of God are:
Galatians 3:26-29, 'The fact is; You're all sons of God because of your faith in the Anointed Jesus. All who were baptized into the Anointed One have put on the Anointed One. So, there aren't any Jews or Greeks, slaves or freemen, males or females, because you're all united in the Anointed Jesus. And if you're [part] of the Anointed One, you're really the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promise.'
Then John wrote a 1 John 5:1, 'Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Anointed One has been fathered by God.'
So, regardless of what some may teach;
If we have faith in Jesus, we are God's sons
When we are baptized into Jesus, we become the seed of Abraham and heirs of the promise
Are there any that claim to be Christians who would deny faith in Jesus? We would hope not.
One other note Romans 8:14-17 is used by the Society to denote the idea that the heirs are also heirs of Christ and then are going to heaven, only heaven. But if you look at the scriptures especially 17 it doesn’t seem to say this;
For all who are led by the spirit of God are sons of God. 15.For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, 'Abba! Father!' 16.The spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs-heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Verse 17 seems to indicate a condition to be joint heirs with Christ, Provided we suffer with him.
Romans 3:31, 4:16-23, 5:18, 18-26
If we look at the old covenant its seems clear , Aaron was the high priest, Moses was the mediator, Jesus replaced them both. The offspring of Aaron and Moses were to be the high-priests of the inner sanctuary and were referred to as the Anointed [Exodus 29;29] and were to be in the inner temple and attend to all the issues of the inner-temple. The Anointed represent the high priests. The Levite’s which were not the offspring of Moses and Aaron were similar to that of the faithful and discreet slave by teaching and administrating [judges] the law. All Israel including circumcised alien residents were to par-take at passover. If they did not bad things would happen to them.
Just like Israel under the original law we as a people that except Jesus
as our messiah and get baptized [may replace circumcision] we all become one Spiritual Nation, Israel of God and all must, like Jesus says par-take of the emblems to show appreciation for what he did and receive life. [John 6;51] The Levites were not separate of Israel and neither are we separate from the One Flock. Jesus was a ransom for all. john 6;48-56 1corth 11;24-26 Hebrews 9;14-18 acts 13;38-39 Romans 3;21-30 Hebrews 7;25-27 1 Tim. 2;5 acts 2;38
According to John 6; 53-54 Jesus says 'unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves. Anyone who eats My flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day,'.
Questions to consider.
Why under the old law there were provisions for alien residents and foreigners but under the New Covenant according to the Society, there are none?
Did Jesus really die for only 144,000 people does this make any sense?
Jeremiah 31:33, 34:
“For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.”
“And they will no more teach each one his companion and each one his brother, saying, ‘KNOW Jehovah!’ for they will all of them know me, from the least one of them even to the greatest one of them,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “For I shall forgive their error, and their sin I shall remember no more.”
My questions for all who reject the New Covenant as it applies to replacing the Old Covenant is this: “How are you to be released from the Old Covenant if you haven’t accepted the New Covenant? How are you to have Jehovah’s law within your heart so as to become ‘my people’ with respect to the New Covenant?Why under the old law, all of Israel was included but the New Covenant only the priestly class?
Matt. 19;28 says 'they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel', if only they themselves are Israel of God then are they judging themselves??? Also look at 1peter 4;17
Where in the bible does it say that association with the anointed is what leads to our relationship with god?