Posts by Ed

18

Hooked On A Kingdom Song.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

i've just been playing back farkels rendition of his "dubsticks".

it really makes me smile, the way that he makes the melody weave in an out of "chopsticks" and then "from house to house" in a way that is so fluid that it brings to mind the almost seamless stitching together of the old "hooked on 45's" and "hooked on classics" albums of the early 80's.. so i was thinking, what kingdub songs could we weave effortlessly into existing music?

i can think of two or three right now.. "we thank you jehovah" bears more than a passing resemblance to haydns "creation" imho.. then again "keep your eyes on the pies" is almost, to my tuneless ear anyway, a carbon copy of "some day my prince will come" from the movie snow white.. finally, an old kingdub song whose name escapes me, but carrying the words "it's your commission now to preach", always puts me in mind of the main them running through wagners "lohengrin".. now i'm not suggesting for one minute that maestro farkel should work on melodies such as these for the sole purpose of our mutual tittilation.

Ed

I too have noted an erie similarity of many of the songs to classical works that pre-date the CD by several hundred years.

Yes, I've noticed that too. Not so much in the melody, but in the harmonies and chord sequences. You can sometimes even pick the composer it was borrowed from. I'm learning some Bach pieces at the moment, and occasionally I'll be playing a new passage and think "Dang, where have I heard that before...?"

There was even an amusing misunderstanding in 1933 when German JWs were accused of supporting the Nazis after opening a convention with the German national anthem. It turned out that the song was "Zion's Glorious Hope", and both songs had been based on the same work by Joseph Haydn. Well that's their story anyway, and they're sticking to it...

6

Temporal Anomalies in Time Travel Movies

by Simon in

i love time travel movies ...back to the future, millenium, the twelve monkeys etc.... i just found this great site that analyses / explains some of the time travel 'twists'.

for instance, in twelve monkeys you are seeing the 6th or 7th iteration of the timeline.

interesting reading if you can get your head round it all !.

Ed

Any dr. who fans out there?

<raises hand> Guilty.

Somehow the bad costumes and cheesy special effects made it all the more entertaining.

However, the award for "Most Convoluted Time Travel Paradox Plot" would have to go to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams.

33

Are there too many EX-JW Born agains?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

i dont wish to offend anyone but this is what i think.a large number of people who leave the jehovahs witness movment become born again christians or join other religious groups.but is this a sign that many who have learnt that "gods chosen organisation" is wrong have not learnt anything at all?.

maybe the prospect of facing a future without a god , a divine purpose , and a faith just too much for some people to bear.but in joining another religious group are they not making the same or similar mistakes as before?they are still putting their trust in a ancient book written by people they have never met, interpretted by other people or by themselves, they have not maybe learnt to be analytical in their thinking and to withhold trust until reasonably solid evidence is provided on an issue.. although other religious may or may not be more harmful than jehovahs witnesses if lessons on thinking and reasoning have not been learnt then we could be open to many more errors of judgment in our lives.. so does the fact that many jehovahs witnesses join other religons show that they are just moving on rather than understanding why jehovahs witness are wrong and learning from it?.

maybe they dont fully grasp that the fudamental flaw to jehovahs witness , is belief in the bible as gods word only the second being following that through an organistation .if the bible is not gods word then all religions who follow it are flawed.. of course what other people choose to think or follow is none of my buisness and i fully respect other peoples right to believe what they want, but if this world is to progress and mankind to improve in thier dealings with one another then we can not all go round living in our own little fantasy worlds , we must be brutal with ourselves in checking why we believe the things we do and trying to align our minds with reality not fantasy.. this apllies to all aspects of our lives.but if we are not honest or open minded and reasonable enough to see there are some massive problems to the bibles authenticity and divine declerations how will we be able to make reasonable decisions in other areas of our lives?

Ed

I don't know much about Born-Again Christians, I only see them on TV occasionally, but one thing I've noticed is that some of them use language that is eerily similar to that used by JWs. I've heard them refer to themselves as being "in the truth", and "witnessing" to "worldly people". And a few other things I've only ever heard JWs say, but can't recall right now. Could that be something that would draw an ex-JW to them first as an alternative faith (assuming they still had any faith)?

42

What Did You Hate About The Circuit OV.'s Visit?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think that there a number of things about the circuit overseer's visit that stinks!

one thing that i hated was how all the elders got together to "shepherd" the flock right before the co's visit.....what bothered you about the week long visit??

?

Ed

I don't think this really counts as something I "hated", but I thought it was a bit weird... we had a CO who would choose this one particular song and ask the Brothers only to sing the first verse, then the Sisters would sing the second verse, then everyone would join in for the third verse. Something a bit different, a bit of fun. He did this twice, on two different visits.

Here's the weird bit though... the following year we got a new CO, and he did the exact same shtick. With the same song.

4

Hard nuts part 2

by Nathan in

thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas about how people leave.

themes were that people leave when they are ready, when they take an honest look at their beliefs and open their mind up to information from outside of the organisation, and i guess, other personal factors.

the timing and individual are important here.

Ed

So it seems, to sum up your replies, that fear (of emotional costs, annihilation, etc) and security (knowing I am in the truth etc) are some of the predemoninate motivating forces? I think maybe pride too (we are better [more moral, more wise] than non JWs).

Exactly right. There is a very strong "US vs THEM" mentality that goes along with it. As a JW you become very good at spotting "worldly" people (non-believers). The way they dress, their jewelery, how they speak. Do they smoke, do they have facial hair, do they have tattoos or body piercings? What about their preference in music or artwork? There's always something that gives them away, and you're looking for these things (at least subconsciously) and judging people pretty much all the time. It gets quite exhausting, and it's one thing I definitely don't miss.

4

Hard nuts part 2

by Nathan in

thanks for sharing your experiences and ideas about how people leave.

themes were that people leave when they are ready, when they take an honest look at their beliefs and open their mind up to information from outside of the organisation, and i guess, other personal factors.

the timing and individual are important here.

Ed

BTW I live in Brisbane, Australia. I notice Ed also lives there. Who knows, we might be neighbours!

Small world, eh?

What motivates a JW - can be any number of things. And I guess it depends on whether you were born into the religion or not. Some are drawn to the people themselves, some find the JW beliefs very attractive (Eternal Life in Paradise - go on, tell me you're not tempted to join up right now), others probably just like the idea that they have found the Truth and therefore don't need to look any further for it.

Probably the main thing that keeps them there once they're in (besides fear of being alienated from friends and family) is that they are constantly reminded that the End is right around the corner... it's getting closer... that's right, the End is almost upon us... yes, any minute now.... and survival is dependent on being an active member of the congregation. The WT organisation likens itself to Noah's Ark - you're either in it or you're out of it, and you will only live if you're in. This is drummed into the members to the point where they equate leaving the organisation with eternal destruction, a very scary prospect indeed. At the same time, having this belief is sort of exciting because you can escape from the problems of life anytime you want by reminding yourself that it's all only temporary, that you'll have the last laugh when God shows up soon and wipes out whoever is giving you grief.

So basically, for believing JWs, leaving the WT organisation means giving up their hope for the future.

24

JW's and stuff

by JoeSomebody in

it appears as if this is a haven for those who hate the jehovah's witnesses.

if that is too tough of a stance, then this place is a haven for those who hate the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

many are apostates.

Ed

It angers me that these people have stumbled thier victims out of the truth. May Jesus guide them.
Luke 17:2
It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble.

Just as a point of interest... have you read Mark's version of the "millstone" comment, where he describes the context in which it was made? (Mark 9:38 - 42) The "little one" Jesus was referring to was a man who was preaching and expelling demons in Jesus' name, but was NOT part of their group. The disciples took umbrage at this, because they felt that an outsider had no right to do this without being a member of their group. Jesus basically said "leave him alone, I value him just as much as you".

But instead of a lesson in tolerance and respect for outsiders, this always seems to be twisted around into a warning about how vital it is never to leave the group or cause anyone else to leave. Interesting. (I think so, anyway)

12

The Incredible Discovery of Noah's Ark

by Beans in

.

edited by - beans on 8 december 2002 14:28:24edited by - beans on 8 december 2002 14:39:52.

Ed

Check out Ron in his Indiana Jones garb.

Ha ha... Ron Wyatt. I remember going to see him a few years ago when he visited Australia. This was about 6 months before he died, and when I was still a JW. I had read his book "Ark Of The Covenant" and passed it on to someone else in the congregation. They in turn showed it to someone else, and so on... pretty soon half the congregation had read it and bought tickets to his show, much to the dismay of the elders.

We met him in the foyer of the theater and spoke to him for a bit just before the show. Funny thing was, he refused to make eye contact with anyone. Just stared downwards at the display desk where he was re-arranging some pamphlets. The show was a bit strange. Ron and his team weren't religious nutters, but the people who had paid for him to fly over and do the show were. They actually passed donation baskets around the audience. And every 30 minutes or so this goofy-looking guy with a guitar (and his five-year-old son named Moses) would come on stage and sing Christian songs, urging the audence to join in ("Come on, Brothers and Sisters, sing along if you know this one...") The small group of JWs I was with just sank into their seats and tried to look as invisible as possible, like "Oh Gawd, what have we done...?"

8

Who aren't the hard nuts?

by Nathan in

most people i know basically believe that jws are unconvertible from their faith.

this, i believe, comes from their dissappointments and frustrations at being able to convince jws to convert, or even just to leave.

i work in the counselling field and we have a similar problem with 'difficult' clients who also don't seem to respond to anything.

Ed

Hey Ed!
Welcome to the forum!! Couldn't agree more with your comments...........

Thanks. I've been reading the posts on this site for a while now. It's fascinating to read about the experiences of others who've been through similar things. Always nice to know you're not alone.

Which part of the Great Southland do you hale from?
The Pope

I'm in Brisbane (Qld).

8

Who aren't the hard nuts?

by Nathan in

most people i know basically believe that jws are unconvertible from their faith.

this, i believe, comes from their dissappointments and frustrations at being able to convince jws to convert, or even just to leave.

i work in the counselling field and we have a similar problem with 'difficult' clients who also don't seem to respond to anything.

Ed

I was born and raised in the organization, and made the decision to leave simply because I came to realize that they were really not that much different from the other religious groups that they vilify on a regular basis. They expect everone else to closely examine their own religion and instantly discard it if they find the slightest trace of questionable conduct or inaccurate teachings. But they are unwilling to apply those same rules to their own faith.

Immoral conduct? "Wait on Jehovah, he will sort it out."

Inaccurate teachings? "The light gets brighter."

Traditions practiced by other religions are "not authorized by the Bible", whereas traditions practiced by JWs are "not prohibited by the Bible". And so on. Different sets of rules for themselves and everyone else. Eventually I just ran out of reasons to think they really were so different or had any special divine authority. So I followed the advice they were expecting everyone else to follow, and left.

But I really don't think there's any point trying to convert JWs anyway. If that's the lifestyle they have chosen, and they are happy with it, then it's not really a problem that they need to be "helped" with. It has to be their own decision. Besides, if they sense that you are trying to help ("mislead") them, they will run very very quickly in the opposite direction.