As a Witness you must accept the FDS to qualify.
As a Christian you must accept Jesus to qualify.
The names have changed, but the same conditional, limited and diminutive god story remains the same.
j
JamesThomas
JoinedPosts by JamesThomas
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25
Qaulifying for life in the new world
by skeptic1914 inattended co public talk today, "will you qualify for life in god's new world?.
the essence in this quote: "it is essential that we cooperate with the fds, that we conform to bible standards and that we ourselves share in preaching the good news of the kingdom.
" not once was faith in jesus christ mentioned.
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71
The original sin
by onacruse inthis is a question i've had for a long time.. according to the biblical account, adam and eve's sin was to eat fruit from the forbidden tree.. now, ordinarily, when we get caught doing something "wrong," we try to hide the "offending" member (the child tries to hide his hand that has the 'stolen' cookie; we hurriedly try to pull our pants back on when mom walks in unexpectedly while we're masturbating, etc.)..
so, if the "sin" of adam and eve was eating a forbidden fruit, then why wasn't their first impulse to hide their hands?
or to wipe off their mouths?
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JamesThomas
Onacruse:
Would you then agree that the Devil's 'original lie' was actually a supernatural revelation to Adam and Eve of what they really were?
Perhaps in a way, but I have not really thought much about it. What was it the Serpent supposedly said? Wasn't it something like :"You will not die, but rather be like gods"? This is not language I would use to describe our true united nature. The serpents words sound more like a grandiose ego trip to me. It's more like the "me" dissolves into the endlessness of conscious-awareness. It's not as if we become anything; it's kind of like a death. Yet, it is seen we are everything, yet no particular thing. We are nothing, just as equally as everything. So, I guess what I'm saying is I don't know what the serpent was referring to. I find we gain more mileage by investigating into what is real right now.
MQ:
when that stuff was written, a couple thousand years ago, human kind was actively engaged in a dualistic lifestyle, constantly fighting the elements and beasts of the fields; and a couple million years ago when we realized we had skin instead of a bunch of fur, we were even more dualistically inclined.
Nowadays, at least in westernized cultures, we can sit back on our verandas and pontificate on the false sense of duality, but then it was real - both to the writers and to the oral historians who probably originated one of the first Adam & Eve stories that eventually got written.
No matter the time or place, phenominal life-styles and situations, our non-dual nature remains pure and untouched. It could have been realized by some and passed down via myth and legend. But, I can not say for sure what the Bible is talking about. I may just be seeing in the Eden story what I want to see. That said, I agree that today we have a the opportunity and time to do some deep inner investigation into our be-ing without fear of being eaten by a lions, tigers, or bears. Oh no.
j
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71
The original sin
by onacruse inthis is a question i've had for a long time.. according to the biblical account, adam and eve's sin was to eat fruit from the forbidden tree.. now, ordinarily, when we get caught doing something "wrong," we try to hide the "offending" member (the child tries to hide his hand that has the 'stolen' cookie; we hurriedly try to pull our pants back on when mom walks in unexpectedly while we're masturbating, etc.)..
so, if the "sin" of adam and eve was eating a forbidden fruit, then why wasn't their first impulse to hide their hands?
or to wipe off their mouths?
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JamesThomas
Tetra:
it's not so much about the eating, or the action of eating. the sin was in the shame of the knowledge of our separateness. suddenly, humanity had alienated itself psychologically from its obvious and qualitative relatedness to nature, biologically. and in the alienation was shame, and a melancholy remembering of a time of oneness not so long ago.
I agree, For a long time I have felt that the eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, is a metaphor for allowing the mind to dictate "reality" in a dualistic nature, rather than seeing and living the perfection of united completeness that it actually IS. Once this false division happens -- it is "me" against the universe, and suffering begins. We leave out natural paradise.
So then, eating from the Tree of Life, is awakening to our real nature and Identity.
j
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10
JW's....
by Honesty inare they really crazy as some believe or are they just deceived, or both crazy and deceived?
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JamesThomas
Anyone who attributes a tribal-deity for the glorious splendor expressed in this infinite and wondrous demonstration of life and universe suffers from the very same myopic religious-coma that Jehovah's Witnesses do. I wouldn't be too quick to judge them if we harbor such a huge sequoia in our own eye.
j
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14
Religion and Insanity
by JWdaughter inrecently i have been reading a book, nearly done now, called "under the banner of heaven".
it is about some fundamental mormons (the ones who practice polygamy andwho are not accepted as lds among regular members of the slc based church.. in this book, while explaining the attempted insanity plea for a fundy lds murderer, they had several psychiatrists (both lds and non lds) explaining insanity.
the argument i thought was interesting was when the defense brought up his very unorthodox beliefs (they sounded nutty to me-and would be considered so by most lds folks also).
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JamesThomas
Living solely in the activity of thought, we are blind and deaf to the silence depths of reality; this is insanity; and pretty much western religion too.
j
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95
First & Last, One-time post
by journey-on ini have been lurking for quite some time now on jwd.
my story is pretty much just like everyone else's, "only the names have been changed".
in reading your posts, i have both laughed and cried till tears ran down my cheeks.
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JamesThomas
No, I don't take drugs other than an occasional beer or wine.
I understand what I am saying sounds odd. To be honest, it sounds strange to me too. My mind has never been able to get a handle on it.
j
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95
First & Last, One-time post
by journey-on ini have been lurking for quite some time now on jwd.
my story is pretty much just like everyone else's, "only the names have been changed".
in reading your posts, i have both laughed and cried till tears ran down my cheeks.
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JamesThomas
Journey:
it doesn't negate the fact that your sister is still not with you. You still have that empty hole in your life where once there was a friend/companion/confidante/playmate/sister. You may be able to deal with it on the terms of which you speak, but..........???
Look around, the universe expresses infinitely, with no limitations as to good or bad. Everything just IS, and whether it is seen through the eyes of a seemingly broken and fragmented human-being, or through eyes which realize oneness with it all, it goes on.
When innate wholeness and unity is realized, complacency to the suffering in the world does not set in. There is still anger and pain, sorrow and sadness, depression and joy...all these things probably felt even deeper than before. Life goes on. The universe expresses.
The difference is that closer than all the activity and circumstance of life, there is the unimaginable and vast pristine-purity of conscious-awareness (certainly what the word holy points to), the Life which gives life to all life and which holds and embraces it all equally. This can be clearly seen, more clearly than any understanding before, that this is what you truly are, and what is the foundational essence and reality of all existence. There is a oneness and wholeness that all exist in and as. This realization moves to the forefront, it is most significant and real. Now, at the very same time the universe continues to express infinitely. There is murder. There is rape. There is birth, and there is death. There are stars exploding, and beauty and wonder beyond imagination.
When true wholeness is known within you, your beloved sister will likely continue her ways, or not. HOWEVER, whatever the "life circumstance" , more real than all phenominal expression, so close as to be what you truly are (closer even than everything you have ever believed yourself to be), is the pristine peace and wholeness which accepts all life's expressions, no matter its shape or form. Your true Identity, is not loving, it is LOVE. So completely pure and unconditional as to be beyond the minds imagination and thought process.
Words fail. I can not explain it. It can not be intellectually known and expressed as objective things can be. It has to be seen. It has to be lived. The good news is, you do not have to earn it, or go some where to get it. You have it. It just needs to be realized. You are IT.
j
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95
First & Last, One-time post
by journey-on ini have been lurking for quite some time now on jwd.
my story is pretty much just like everyone else's, "only the names have been changed".
in reading your posts, i have both laughed and cried till tears ran down my cheeks.
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JamesThomas
Choosing Life:
And James-just where do you get your ideas from? I understand that beliefs interfere with making honest and open connections. Any books you like to read? How does a person not have any beliefs?
In our practical day to day lives beliefs are helpful. I better believe that if I step in the path of a speeding truck there will be shit to pay. However, when it comes to the desire to meet with the bottomless depths of reality and our own foundational Identity, it's very important to see that beliefs (interpretive concepts of the mind) as valuable as they are, are of no value here. The mind inherently breaks things into conceptual pieces that it may get a grasp or sense of things. But this mental process of disuniting and cutting into understandable portions actually blinds consciousness to the immediate and present Wholeness that all phenomena exist within and as.
So, beliefs about our ultimate truth and significance need to be seen for the empty vessels that they are, and relinquished. This means we need to see that like thoughts and beliefs about a tree, are not a tree, all thoughts and beliefs about "self" and universe, "God" and "Divinity" (for me these words point to genuine Reality, and not some mind generated fragments or deities) are not the actuality we seek. That said, it is generally very difficult to let go of cherished beliefs about our "self" and our personal gods. One needs to be very brave, or perhaps "insane" to pull the rug out from under themselves.
Relinquishing beliefs leaves an openness. When all that is believed about self and other, is absent, there is still the presence of what IS. So, we silently investigate into the most close, intimate and immediate sense of being and existing. Everything believed about self and other, may be a lie, but existence is real. Dive into the pool of silent be-ing, and see what pearls and wonder can be found there.
jgnat:
JamesThomas, is it not just as dogmatic to insist that your way is the only way to freedom? I think you've diverted this thread with your own soapbox.
Yes, in the attempts to answer people, it seems I have hijacked this thread. I am uncomfortable about that and apologize for it.
As far as dogma, I am not asking anyone to believe anything, rather acutely and thoroughly investigate for themselves. All I am saying is what some other fellow once said:
"The Kingdom of God, is within you."
j
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95
First & Last, One-time post
by journey-on ini have been lurking for quite some time now on jwd.
my story is pretty much just like everyone else's, "only the names have been changed".
in reading your posts, i have both laughed and cried till tears ran down my cheeks.
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JamesThomas
I'm not a religious person and I have no beliefs in a god. What that means is I have no preconceived ideas which limit the Divine to some other place and time.
Rather than read a book like the Bible which subtracts significance and wholeness from the universe and places it in a deity, I have chosen to acutely delve into the reality of being and existing within the most intimate and immediate sense of aliveness here and now. I have seen that thoughts and beliefs can only reduce and circumscribe the Divine down to a thing or person. So I harbor no beliefs or thoughts about God, other than when I make my foolish and feeble attempts at explaining.
I am not saying I am God. In fact I have said I of myself am truly, truly nothing. What the word G-O-D points to, however, is without beginning and without end, and so is the foundational reality of all existence.
If you want to get pissy, why not yell at Christians for reducing God to a tiny thing? That's what I do.
j
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95
First & Last, One-time post
by journey-on ini have been lurking for quite some time now on jwd.
my story is pretty much just like everyone else's, "only the names have been changed".
in reading your posts, i have both laughed and cried till tears ran down my cheeks.
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JamesThomas
Good analogy.
In similar wording, what I am saying is that rather than wait on a god so tiny and limited as to be absent which our minds create, look deeper into our own immediate and intimate sense of being and existing for the Divine wholeness which is our true foundation.
The life raft is here. What ya going to do with it?
j