Do you want to see into the future?
no-zombie
JoinedPosts by no-zombie
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6
The Future
by no-zombie indo you want to see into the future?.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyi3h7beea.
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Has anyone heard of "Secret Disfellowshipping" by Jehovah's Witnesses? Menlo Park Ca. Congregation. Update.
by Balaamsass inno doubt everyone has been following the juan viejo postings regarding the watchtower kingdom hall "grab" on jwn for the last couple of years.
called the mrs and me to say "wow- you have to google this" we did...came here to jwn ...became members..and the rest is history.. in the last nine months i have been calling and emailing contacts in the silicon valley for verification on the societies theft and forced sale of the menlo park kingdom hall (near the new facebook heaquarters) because the story seemed...a little far fetched.
every reliable contact i made has confirmed what juan reported.
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no-zombie
I think that there is two things missing in this thread ...
Firstly, who is the one that benefits from secrete disfellowshiping? The Organization of course. This is because, either the reason why the person is disfellowshiped is dubious ... or the whole case is too embarrassing for them to handle. Thus, played right, secrete disfellowshiping actually works against the Society in the end more than being publicly disfellowshiped, because as when the facts filter out (which they will in time), the story lingers and its smell, last far longer.
But secondly, religions, football clubs and art societies have the right as private institutions, to make up their own rules, as they go along ... and there is nothing ultimately that its members can do about it. So if the Organization somehow legally acquires Kingdom Halls, and then sell them off, well that it. Its just like your Bingo club. Every Thursday night for that past 40 years you've been going, and then someone one the committee wants to change it to Friday night. If they have the voting rights, then its passed and its done. There is no point bitching about it, either we can put up with the change ... or find a new club.
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What you think consequences gonna be for watchtower if they lose the court appeal in Norway?
by Hellothere inpersonally i think they gonna realise god's not backing org.
that idea gonna get even more established in their minds.
i think the real selling of kingdom hall gonna start then.
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no-zombie
As I understand things, the American HQ does not support financially countries once the work is 'established'. As a result if Norway ends up in the red, its will be allowed to die on the vine. And in the end we would expect the Norwegian Brothers to see more halls going up for sale and congregation mergers. But I do feel that there is a little more time before we see this happening, as the local Branch could start encouraging publisher 'donations' more ... or put higher levies on the assembly halls, to make up the difference.
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For the Disillusioned
by no-zombie ina problem for all who come to realize that our faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed.
where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the bible, to the point of questioning god's actual existence.however while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which i doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), i don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person.
while others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.but what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of jesus'?interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question.
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no-zombie
While I'm not going to get into some kind of flame-war with people here, I would like elaborate on what I wrote.
Simply put, there are only two choices a person can make ... either we believe that we are a product of God's creation ... or we evolved and are nothing more than advanced primates.
If we accept the first premise, than we have to also accept the binding task of searching for a spiritual life and that a certain standard of behavior is expected.
However if we believe in the the second premise ... then morality, marriage, societal behavior, in fact our whole understanding of right and wrong, are just unreal constructs that vary between person to person and circumstance to circumstance. We also have to accept what evolutionary psychologists say about the human species (driven purely by sex and survival) is absolutely true too. Therefore, when we read of a person rapes another, we shouldn't get upset ... no ... because that person is just doing is doing what is actually, biologically natural; driven their own sexual needs. Similarly if a person kills another person to take their resources, they are going what is natural; driven by want, through the conservation of energy.
Additionally, when bad things happen to ourselves or our family, if we are true atheists, we should just be able to write those things off, because the so-called culprits, were simply living up to their true nature ... as what happens in the various animal kingdoms.
This is what I meant when I said that being an atheist is very hard ... and when you add the whole issue of death ... for us, our children and our grandchildren, grasping fully that everyone will rot in the ground when we die, totally hopeless and ultimately forgotten, you will understand why I said that having such a 'realist' view, it is not than easy thing to process.
Thus in the end, for me its rather obvious, that you can't have the freedom of being an atheist ... without the pain that goes with it. -
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For the Disillusioned
by no-zombie ina problem for all who come to realize that our faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed.
where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the bible, to the point of questioning god's actual existence.however while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which i doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), i don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person.
while others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.but what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of jesus'?interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question.
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no-zombie
A problem for all who come to realize that our Faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed. Where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the Bible, to the point of questioning God's actual existence.
However while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which I doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), I don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person. While others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of Jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.
But what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of Jesus'?
Interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question. Tired of the old churches, Thomas Jefferson (of US founding father fame and 3rd American president) found a rather neat solution that I feel may hold value for those of us, who may have lost all to disillusionment.
Jefferson you see, lived in a time of great turmoil and pain both in his own personal life and in the greater world around him. But the religious confusion and hypocrisy offered by the clergy in the faiths around him, stressed his personal beliefs to the point where he began to believe in a simpler Christianity based only on the pure teaching of Jesus and excluding all others, including the commentaries of the Apostles. For Jefferson, reflecting on the actual words and action of Jesus Christ, should be enough to become a unfettered Christian ... and the logic to it is sound. After all, the Apostles who guided the early church after Jesus, only became such, by doing that very thing.
So, as a part of his own mental journey, he produced two private books; one called 'The Philosophy of Jesus of Nazareth' which was unfortunately lost in time and the other, 'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth', which ultimately because known as the Jefferson Bible. And it is this second one, that may be of interest to many here. Because what he did was, he got a number of Bibles and literally with a razor, re-spliced the gospel accounts into one pure chronological record of Jesus' life and sermons and discarded the rest.While I don't believe that Jefferson ever intended that 'The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth' was to become the Bible's replacement, the simplicity of focusing purely on Jesus's own words is interesting and might be helpful for those who wish to consider Jesus' teachings more philosophically and as a life guide, than that of an actual messiah. However better than another Ghandi or Budda, even Jefferson had to acknowledge that the clarity of Jesus' truths were simple enough for even a child to understand and gain befit from. Which words, have been echoed by many others, because it was and still is, true.
Thus, while our urban legend of CT Russell getting a blank note book to write down clear Bible doctrines, may be fake ... returning to the first principles principles of Christianity, by that I mean the very word of Jesus himself, could very well be a good start for us all to recover some of the balance we may have lost. -
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For the Disillusioned
by no-zombie ina problem for all who come to realize that our faith is just another manmade religion, is that we start questioning everything we've previously believed.
where ultimately its possible to spiral down past believing in the bible, to the point of questioning god's actual existence.however while some may be happy to think of themselves now as atheists or agnostics (which i doubt that most really are, as living with the full mental and emotional consequences of being one is a lot harder than most understand), i don't think it is necessary to abandon being a spiritual person.
while others might like the idea of drifting into a modern animistic philosophy (which rather conveniently excludes personal accountability), the keeping of the core teachings of jesus has historically proven to give many people a balanced and practical moral code to live by.but what is meant by the term: 'the core teachings of jesus'?interestingly many thinkers from the enlightenment period of the late 1700s, had similar a question.
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Patterson New Visitor Centre & Museum Announced
by raymond frantz inhttps://www.jwupdates.com/post/new-patterson-visitor-center-and-first-century-museum.
january 1, 2024, marked the official opening of the patterson visitor center, located at the watchtower educational center in patterson, new york, u.s.a. the feature museum of the visitors’ center is entitled “first-century bible village.” brother isaiah miller, who works in the museum department at bethel, said: “the bible village was designed to provide everyone with a realistic and educational experience.
studies show that interactive learning has a powerful effect on people of all ages.” after her tour, one visitor exclaimed: “this museum made me feel like i had been transported back to the land of ancient israel.
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no-zombie
Are they selling holy water, yet? They should, since they have the shrines.
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Russia's FSB Raids Jehovah’s Witness Office in Occupied Mariupol
by Bangalore inrussia's fsb raids jehovah’s witness office in occupied mariupol.. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/01/15/russias-fsb-raids-jehovahs-witness-office-in-occupied-mariupol-a83726.
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no-zombie
In a world view, where its all about them, its very easy to see how this is going to spin up in the Watchtower world. However, the reality is that Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only religion attacked by Russia's FSB. The Bihai, The Church of Latter Day Saints and other local minority faiths are also on the list of prohibited faiths.
Why? ... because Russia is at war, and any group that is not supporting the state ... is an enemy of the state. Its that simple.
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Can you openly express doubts in the congregation these days?
by Elena ini know of a lovely old sister who has been a jw for several decades now who openly expresses doubts about jw interpretations.. she does it in such a lovely way and everyone loves her.
she is such a sweet old soul, makes everyone happy around her.. she has said things like- even if we have got it wrong about this and that i still believe the bible is gods word”.
she answers up regularly and she goes on ministry groups but like most of us she is definitely jwlite, we don’t really do door to door work anymore.
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no-zombie
Lovely old sisters with different views, are viewed as harmless eccentrics ... provided they are not actively promoting their personal opinions. However, I don't think that there would be many congregations, where they would give such ones a totally free hand. In the end, she'll get an initially kind shepherding call, to tone it down ... but it will get harder the next time, the Elders have to come calling.
So Elena ... sadly ... unless you want to get given a loyalty test by a couple of Elders as well, its far better to keep your views, your own. It the part of the high cost of being a PIMO.
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I have some questions about the Org.!
by KerryKing inare any or all of the gb from jewish descent?.
why are they so fascinated with following ancient jewish 'principles' ?.
isa 43:10, 44:8 ' you are my witnesses ' which they based their religious identity on, jehovah's witnesses, yet those verses address the jews, not christians, which they profess to be.. jesus said in ac 1:8 'you will be witnesses of me ', .
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no-zombie
While I value the comments of others, this time I'd like to differ, to state that the Governing Body has deliberately made our religion into a Judain sect ... with a light painting of Christian overtones. And my proofs is seen is not what is written, but what is done.
For example, consider the balance of teaching time spent between talking about OT topics and characters and NT topics and characters. What do we see? It is obvious that the ratio is at least a 75/25 split, in favor of Jewish themes. Yet we know that in the NT story, there is at least 25 faithful men (not counting the many women) who God kept their names alive for our benefit, whom we NEVER hear of, bar one or two.
What about the actual message we hear from the platform? What do we hear all the time? Answer ... the negative and degrading topics of sin and judgement. How Samson killed all the Philistines because they worshiped false gods, how King David murdered women, children and the elderly on his righteous raids in the Jordan ... or how Jehovah is going to kill literally 99.9% of the world's population very soon, just like he did in Noah's day. Conversely, let us think about Jesus' most important message to mankind; the sermon on the mount. Does his words of hope and triumph over weakness, mesh with all the killing and violence we normally hear at the meetings? It doesn't of course. Nether do we hear about Jesus condemnation of his previous rule based faith.
Why?
Simply said, people in a rule based religion are easier to control, it demands unity of thought and purpose ... and in our case, it was important that the Jehovah's Witnesses religion, looked drastically different to the classic Christian faiths in the world today.