Posts by obfuscatetheobvious

66

Another Newbie

by Skinnedsheep in

jw
friends

i recently came to the realization that the organization is corrupt and is false.

my story is similar to many i think.

i was raised in the religion, pioneered and served as an elder for a number of years.

There are many reasons why I left. They kept piling up till I couldn't hold the weight anymore and I broke down. Not doctrinal, not pedophilia, not new light, not organisational, not shunning. Many of the reasons are related but none was the actual straw that broke the camels back.

Because of this I was nervous about coming here (besides the fear of "apostates" of course!) because I didn't want to latch onto someone elses very emotive, heartwrenching and personal reason for leaving and make it my "justifiable" reason for leaving. So I mainly read individual experiences - with increasing amazment that my basic story was repeated so regularly (me - born in, left school to pioneer, married a pioneer, MS, CA parts, etc).

I'm glad I did this as the space allowed me to identify who I am.

As time has progressed I am now getting interested in the doctrinal etc stuff. Purely as an intellectual exercise but I also feel some therapeutic benefits as it has helped to recover and consider a lifetime of repressed questions, feelings, thoughts and memories.

I'm glad that your wife is out with you, my amazing wife is all the way in and is torn in two. The last 6 months have been the most terrifying, amazing, hurtful, rewarding, frustrating, relieving, destructive, healing and so on ad nauseum, time in my life, particularly for my marriage. There have been many days where we have ended up closer than ever in understanding each other but only hours before we had been seconds away from all over. Add the other usual things that cause stress on marriage (finances, work, parenting, illness, etc) and there are some difficult stretches.

My wife sometimes pines for the "good old days", when we were just "happy'. On the stressful days, I understand her sentiment. From another angle, my determination to question and examine every premise has allowed us to make some massive breakthroughs on small but ever present issues that have arisen periodically during our marriage. Where will it lead? Only time will tell....

I hope you can find support that is practical and helpful to you and your wife on this forum and look forward to reading your thoughts/questions/perspective on the many and varied topics that are discussed.

Cheers Ob.

74

Got a angry letter from our oldest son today we are very hurt from it.

by TotallyADD in

jw
friends

when i got home today from work my wife showed me a 5 page letter from our oldest son.

he basically said he does not what anything to do with us because of all the wrong things we did as parents to him and his brother.

he blames us for not being there for him and we are toxic parents.

obfuscatetheobvious

ADD, I really feel for you, I cannot imagine how hurt you must be. I started a thread about being born in blurring the lines between JW issues and parental issues. This seems like that to me.

My take on your sons letter is that he is confused in his emotions. It may be that for a long time he has resented how hard you were on him but he could justify your being that way because of being a witness. Your apology to him while camping would also have been taken in the context of being a witness and would have built on that existing justification.

Now that you no longer identify as a witness, that justification is no longer there. Even worse for him, the reason for being hard on him you have rejected as wrong. In his mind he might think "Great, why NOW dad! Why not when we were kids - we could have had a normal childhood! All the restrictions and anguish! Why didnt you LOOK back then!"

To complicate matters, his wife is on his case. These conflicting emotions need to be vented somewhere and that somewhere is you. You copped it big time.

But isn't that what parents are for? Your response was really nice. Really nice. As parents we say that we would do anything for our kids, take a bullet for them if we had too. This is your bullet. Take it as a proud and loving parent of a son who is angry and confused. Taking it personally can only cloud the issue but looking at it as an opportunity to protect your kid might help you see passed the personal hurt and in the future he might see it as going some way to fixing the past.

Cheers,

Ob

5

The chat.

by obfuscatetheobvious in

jw
friends

my best mate called me up this morning.

said he needed to tell me something.

that he had been having doubts.

obfuscatetheobvious

Hey Captain, if he outs me it's just another one of life's curveballs isn't it! I hope that he can chat to me about things, I didn't hold anything back this morning so he knows where I stand.

Hey whathappened, when I started reading here, I, like you, just felt wave after wave of relief! I wasn't as alone as I thought! My mate is not ready for that yet but I did mention how I felt when I expanded my acceptable reading material to include this site.

Cheers,

Ob

5

The chat.

by obfuscatetheobvious in

jw
friends

my best mate called me up this morning.

said he needed to tell me something.

that he had been having doubts.

obfuscatetheobvious

Hey Ding,

Thanks, listening and supporting is my plan, not sure I pulled it off as well as I would want to on reflection.

I want my help to be unconditional. Whatever course he takes from here, I will support - even if that means him staying in and cutting me off so that he has no dissenting voice. That is part of what saddens me - change can be painful.

Cheers,

Ob

5

The chat.

by obfuscatetheobvious in

jw
friends

my best mate called me up this morning.

said he needed to tell me something.

that he had been having doubts.

obfuscatetheobvious

My best mate called me up this morning. Said he needed to tell me something. That he had been having doubts. That he had a meeting with the elders to express his doubts. That he was sure that they will not be able to provide an reasonable explaination for his doubts.

Up till this morning he didn't know that I had faded (we live a long way from each other). I have tried to bring up the topic over the last couple years, but got some company answers + a brick wall = don't want to talk about it. After this mornings chat it all made sense. To me at least. He is pretty upset, he is sure that he is going to lose everything.

He is a good man, loves his family, believes in morals and is trying his best to make this right within the framework of what he has been taught his whole life.

We talked for about an hour or so. I don't know which way he will go and to be honest that is not my concern. I only hope to be the kind of support that I would want a friend to be for me. I don't know if I was that this morning.

This organization has brought me the most amazing things - my wife = amazing, my kids = amazing, my mate and his family = amazing. That it is also a factor in the pain that affects me and mine, saddens me deeply.

I hope that one day, I will not need to lean on you guys and the other people in my life that are helping me to make sense of it all. That day is a ways off yet and I want to say thank you, while I remember and in case I forget, for everything you have done for me.

Cheers,

Ob

42

JULY 15th Study Watchtower - NEW LIGHT IS FANTASY

by The Searcher in

the july 15 study watchtower uses all 4 study articles to try to inculcate into every witnesses' mind that the governing body is indisputably god's sole channel of communication on earth.

to do so, it uses a multitude of scriptures along with seriously flawed un-inspired reasoning.

the foundation stone of this watchtower's blatant agenda is the claim that when jesus used only a few to dispense the physical food to the many, he was setting a principle which would be applied to the distribution of spiritual food after he returned to heaven.

obfuscatetheobvious

Julia (and possibly manohman?)- was it Sat or Sun - I'm taking a wild guess, but from descriptions you have posted on other threads, I think my wife may be attending the same assembly hall on Sat, wonder if it will be said again. Might be interesting to get her to listen out for it.

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

obfuscatetheobvious

LisaRose - I appreciate your honesty. It must have been hard to hear that from your son and therefore hard to share. I can't look at my dad and think that he meant anything other than the best for me and my brothers. He and my youngest brother have had issues of their own in the past and I know that dad has indicated his regret for the part he played in my brothers angst. So I'm sure he has regrets as a father. I look at him as a father and feel empathy. I look at him as a JW elder and feel intense anger. That is the blur for me - where does one stop and the other start?

Pickler - thanks for the follow up. Your last sentence is on a topic that is sort of tied up in this for me. Yes, the org should back off. But if my parents - primarily my dad - had given me the tools, then no organization - not any - could back me into a corner. It wasn't until I started waking up that I learnt about philosophy, sophistry, fallacies, word play and particularly how these things are used in subtle combinations to persuade and convince. Why didn't he know that? Hadn't he been tricked before? Why didn't he investigate and swear that no one was going to get him again and especially his kids?!! That basic mindset of protecting your children is what drives me to investigate, understand and then teach! Your point about education is well made and I acknowledge that it has played a part in my dads parenting.

Problem - I have no doubt that my dads upbringing influenced the way he parented us. He had 3 kids under 1 when he was 23, the 2 youngest (twins) were 2.5 months premature and one was later diagnosed with cerebral palsy. Tough start to parenting.

Giordano - I learnt pretty early that not doing as my dad wanted meant getting the belt. How can a child, that has had "obedience" literally belted into him have any "free" choice?

trujw - I share your jealousy. My MIL family are not witnesses (yep, I didn't want to associate with them). They are the people I most enjoy being around now - we argue, debate, share ideas (none are taboo), get angry, say sorry and get on with it!

mrsjones - good and bad parents are in every walk of life and every section of society. I'm sorry your husband got such a raw deal. Gives my problems some perspective.

Another thread I was reading mentioned sending a Mothers Day card. I wish I had read that prior to Sunday! As it is, it's a great idea that will help me to make contact with my mum, so flowers and a card it is!

I really appreciate the imput and the opportunity to express myself. As I look over what I have written, some things are beginning to dawn on me and as they say, it takes two to tango.

Cheers!

Ob

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

obfuscatetheobvious

Problem, Gio, trujw - thanks for your comments, I was composing my post and didn't see your replies. You all raise good points that I would like to address at my next opportunity - which probably won't be for a few hours or so.

Also thank you for the welcomes! I have found help from the most unlikely people, people that I have looked down on in the past. For me being "free" doesn't mean not going to meeting/fs/personal study anymore. It's trying to break down the arrogance that I see within me.

Be back soon.

Cheers,

Ob

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

obfuscatetheobvious

Wow guys, thanks for the comments! (Side note - I could see your comments on my Iphone but couldn't reply - is there a setting I need to change?)

Pickler - Yes, the male ego can make us do crazy things and it is probably better just to get out of the way! I think that I want to lash out using religion as a pretext because its easy but the more I analyse it, the issue seems to be a parenting one tangled up with a religious one.

Ucant - You are right, we can't live life over again and this is part of why I want to nail this down. I don't want this dominating my life because I didn't take the time to address it. The duty vs love thing is definitely part of my deliberations.

Phizzy - Coftys' letter was the post I was referring to! His comment about not knowing if the letter only had its effect because of his illness was what got me thinking along the lines of this thread. It a little around the other way for me. My mum is sick. I want to keep in touch with her but I really, really struggle with my father. To the point where I don't want to contact Mum because she will tell my father our conversation and then he gets to know about my life. Yep, pretty dumb. Also the reason I don't want it to ignore it anymore - funny how illness sharpens the focus.

Gingerbread - I understand what you are saying and have definitely seen that dynamic in other father/son relationships. I'm sure there was that aspect of my own relationship with my dad particularly during my late teens - also maybe another factor in why I married young. My parents and my family (me, wife and small girls) have had a generally good relationship for the most part and for 7 years he actually worked for me (I did my apprenticeship under him - that is a whole different story again!). When I started waking up (about 2.5 years ago) things stayed cordial but about 8 months ago, after a period of time that I could sense something wasn't quite right at work, he told me he was going off to do his own thing. Was it just a coincidence of timing - that was about the time that mum started having tests and also the full import of the organisation began to really hit me and I was pretty angry and increasing not afraid voice that anger.

MrsJ - yep, and my dad lost his dad at 10y old and his mum basically made him the man of the house, something he has yet to really sort out with her. I have no doubt that he thought he was doing what was right and may even have regrets - but this just increases my rage at the org because they made a hard job even harder and even worse don't take any responsibility for it. As a parent myself it makes me sad for him but as a child it is frustrating.

Adiva - definitely see some of this dynamic. Would love for my parents to be genuinely interested in why I chose a different path. When my girls find something new, I love hearing about it! I want to have that some excitement when they grow up - they have found something new/interesting/something I didn't know or hadn't thought about - great! Even better, because we are adults we can debate, discuss, etc. This is another connection that will help me to grow even if I'm bedbound.

Zed - my single biggest frustration with the org. There is no mechanism to stand up and call someone out for stepping over the mark. As I have found from this site and others, it is only from the outside that change is effected. Part of my frustration with my dad - he is an elder and so part of it. I blame him because how could he stay and not do something?

Awol - I see your mum as being the honest, faithful people that I am so angry for. The ones that make me want to take my dad by the shoulders and shake him to see how much he has hurt them. I know its an over reaction. But he has stood on the platform, at meetings, CA, DA and been part of the machine that has influenced you mum and others to act in the way you describe.

Band - as you can see from my above rant - I agree, it is hard to seperate! I don't want it to come out in one emotional, angry, bitter diatribe that will be easily dismissed. I'm hoping that if I can seperate some of the issues and start on the non religious ones, the father that I'm sure loves his son will be connected.

Thanks all for your comments so far, it has been really therapeutic and I look forward to more!

35

Does being a "born in" blur parental vs JW issues?

by obfuscatetheobvious in

thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site!

i have browsed a few topics but the threads that i seem to gravitate to the most deal with family.

there is certainly a lot that i can relate to in many of the anecdotes i have read.

obfuscatetheobvious

Hi All,

Thank you to the many people who have posted their experiences and advice on this site! I have browsed a few topics but the threads that I seem to gravitate to the most deal with family. There is certainly a lot that I can relate to in many of the anecdotes I have read. While reading a thread yesterday it dawned on me that maybe the issues between me and my parents or specifically my father, are more of a father/son issue rather than a "because they are witnesses and I'm (essentially) not."

I think that zeroing in on the actual father/son issues and addressing them in isolation to JW related issues could be a more constructive approach that may allow for a less emotional conversation on any JW topics in the future. Happy to hear any thoughts!