what are some of things you were deprived of as a jw kid that were not all that bad??
i remember when other kids would say 'cross your heart or hope to die' as an act of truthfulness.
i don't know the origin...but it seemed harmless enough.
Hey Beck,
I don't know, may be a cultural thang but we used to cross our hearts and hope to die to seal up a promise or to affirm that something was absolutely true. The motion was an "X" across the heart.
As far as the witnesses, I never heard it discussed nor did it ever come up in my presence. But, I suppose we were "fringies". Heh, heh.
Marcos
recently i have been hearing the phrase,"tough love", anyone know where this phrase originated from?
what is tough love all about?
when would you use it,and, on whom?have you ever used it on someone,if you did what resulted from it?
Im not sure if "TOUGH LOVE" was an outgrowth of pop-psychology or not but my first exposure to the term was as a means of encouraging your own kids to stop using drugs. Seems to me this first surfaced in the 70s but I'm not sure, old age and all.
The scenario is this: If your kid insists that he is old enough to do whatever he wants then, even though it was painful for you, you had to tell him to either stop with the drugs NOW or to get out of your house. The theory was that you hoped he would not leave but that if he did the cold reality of life would hit him in the face and he would realize that being in your house under your rules was by far preferable to living on the street.
Sometimes it worked.
Im not so sure about now
Marcos
.
we have had some pretty amasing classic comedy in britian over the years.. faulty towers, the office, alan partridge,ali g etc.mind you weve had some very crap sit-com 2.4 kids etc.. who does it better the brits or the yanks?.
sorry ozzies cant think of any from down under.
Dear riz,
Orale (right on!)
Interesting to note that the level of Spanish in the US is quite high. Actually, according to reports I have read, it is the second-largest Latin American country in the world, after Mexico! This in terms of native speakers. And has several "native" dialects.
Thanks for the correction. No harm, no foul.
Sabado Gigante can be fun. But is more of a "Caribean" Spanish show. Some or us "cuates" (Mexican Brothers) do get on though.
Ciao,
Marcos
.
we have had some pretty amasing classic comedy in britian over the years.. faulty towers, the office, alan partridge,ali g etc.mind you weve had some very crap sit-com 2.4 kids etc.. who does it better the brits or the yanks?.
sorry ozzies cant think of any from down under.
Ha and ha, riz,
Mexico wins.
two words- Sabado Gigante.
Sabado Gigante originates in Miami if I am not mistaken.
Actually, Mexico has some pretty good comedy. The program "Otro Rollo" is from Mexico City and broadcast nation-wide. The host, Adel Ramones, gives a one-hour monolog once a week that is topical and extremely funny. The middle class here laughs at about the same things that the people in other countries laugh at.
British and American comedy are BIG here. And, we get the humor. But, sub-titling sucks. I would love to be able to offer my services to the companies that do the sub-titling. They people in the US who do it don't even hear the dialog correctly.
Oh yeah, Sabado Gigante sucks too!
Love,
Marcos
what about spanking?
in most of the world spanking (not beating) is considered a valid form of correction up to a point.
that point being at the time it is possible to reason with the child.
Once again, I think that spanking or other forms of physical punishment are a last resort. As to the age when they should cease, I believe that that depends on the child. They all mature at different rates.
As for spanking teaching the kid to be fearful and to believe that hitting is an acceptable practice, I disagree (with reservations). If your child is normal and you dont beat the child or discipline out of anger, I must say that the child knows the difference.
Corporal punishment is common here and I must say that the vast majority of people are not insensitive. But, I do agree that, if not administered with love, the result will almost certainly be insensitivity on the part of the child.
I also saw a lot of little children beat and abused when I was with the WT. Most often in my experience it was applied correctly and with restraint. I also saw abuses. There will always be bad parents unfortunately.
Marcos
P.S. And, yes, I think that the verbal abuse can be as devastating and humilliating (perhaps more sore in some cases) as a "beating".
what about spanking?
in most of the world spanking (not beating) is considered a valid form of correction up to a point.
that point being at the time it is possible to reason with the child.
First and most important;
| Elsewhere | I like getting spankings |
Sorry Elsewhere, I can't help you. Perhaps one of the sisters...
Glad to note the first posts on this topic show an understanding of my point. It appears that there are a couple of limitations. One is that I have seen some mothers, even here where I live, give a few whacks to the behind of a very young baby. It seems unreasonable to me.
There is an age when a child has a level of understanding that can equate bad behavior with punishment. Corporal punishment before that age (undetermined because all children are different) seems to be unproductive. I don't think a baby really can comprehend being struck. Then again, I'm not a mother. Perhaps due to the closeness between mother and baby it can be effective. I simply don't know. I do feel uncomfortable about it however. Maybe someone can give an idea of the lower limit at which such correction might be effective.
The upper limit, too, seems a little cloudy. As I mentioned, all kids mature in different areas of their personalities at different rates. Of this I am reasonably sure. I work with young children quite a bit. But I believe that spanking becomes ineffective (except to cause anger and resistance) at a certain age usually before adolescence.
My son, who is now 19 years of age, has, on more than one occasion, told me that he would prefer that I "hit" him instead of expressing disappointment in a behavior or even silent disapproval. I actually understand what he means. Sometimes the knowledge that he (or even myself) have done wrong makes him wish for a way to just make the problem go away.
I think that the word "discipline" gets a bad rap. I too think that Spock should have stuck to space exploration (joke). I don't see the majority of young people as better off than their parents and in many cases much worse off. We all deserve respect -- even the parents. And respect is earned. This is a common expression among young people now who refuse to see the broader implications of the saying. When you show responsibility and respect, you will be given more of each.
If we don't discipline the kids, OTHER KIDS WILL DO IT FOR US, as I said in my original post. And the results are usually far more damaging to our kids.
My approach is, and has been, not to administer punishment when I am angry. I have seen parents do this (even mine) and the result is usually not good. I also tend to view it as an intensely private matter. Public humiliation is out for me.
Having said that, there are certain forms of corporal punishment that can be applied. In my classes and with the parent's permission I often have the "offender" do push-ups (5 - 10). It is done in a light-hearted manner and with a sense of play. They get the point and are never humiliated. I clear this with the parents when they first bring their kids to me for training. The option I give them is either their child conforms to the norms of my class or they are corrected. If I can't correct the child, I will not accept that child in my class.
At the end of the day, EVERY child leaves with a smile. They even have some bad behaviors with their parents that the kids know I will not accept. Outside of my classes it is up to the parents to either continue with what I teach or not. But I always expect the best from my students. My son also helps me with my classes. The kids love him. Dammit, I think they like him more than they do me!
Well, just some thoughts. I look forward to hearing more from you.
BTW, I also think that many people sort of ride the pendulum. They often say (as I did to myself) that, "I will never do what was done to me!" Well, I have discovered that my parents were not entirely wrong. They made mistake as I have but for the most part, I see discipline as an act of love.
Marcos
what about spanking?
in most of the world spanking (not beating) is considered a valid form of correction up to a point.
that point being at the time it is possible to reason with the child.
What about spanking?
In most of the world spanking (not beating) is considered a valid form of correction up to a point. That point being at the time it is possible to reason with the child.
I was spanked and dont resent it.
In residing in the US and in reading I have noticed that some ethnic groups (African Americans and others) regularly use spanking as a form of correction.
Is it just a White American and European idea that spanking is categorically bad? I have seen some behaviors among children that would merit corporal punishment. When lacking, other children are more than willing to supply such correction to your child and think nothing of it. Who is better qualified to correct my child? Me or some kid who may not even LIKE my child?
I know there is disagreement about this but I simply dont understand the sometimes rabid aversion to correcting children.
Before someone mentions it I would like to say that I am against beating anyone or any form of abuse. However, is corporal punishment, by definition, abuse?
Please dont misunderstand me. This is a question, not a condemnation of anyone.
Marcos
finally got around to putting the fine provision from dmouse up on my website (sorry about the delay, mate!.
http://jsefton.users1.50megs.com/kmscans.htm.
follow the link to the january 2003 km.. will try to get december and november up over the next few days...
Stephanus,
Just a question and one I'm sure you have heard before.
Why is the KM you post directed to "Britain" (not even Great Britain)? Doesn't a whole continent (Australia) deserver its own KM?
Marcos
Edited to add: Thanks for posting the KMs.
Edited by - marcos on 13 January 2003 10:14:58
i just read a reply on another thread (doesnt really matter which one) in which a person made reference to 2 elders and said that they were not too bright, perhaps inbreeding.
presumably this was said because the guys acted in a stupid manner in their counseling and were from the american south.
are southerners really stupid and inbred?
Hi LDH,
PS Marcos, I love Chihuahua. I almost went there to teach English. Instead I ended up in Puerto Rico for a while. Do you have any Castillian ancestry? My daughter does.
Chihuahua and the other northern states seem to play a large role in the culture of the Southwest. Interchange of language and culture.
As far as my ancestors, French, Irish, Italian and Spanish. Where in Spain? Who knows? I'm thinking probably somewhere like Galicia. I think that is the Celtic area of Spain.
Not much of a geneologist. Sorry.
Marcos
P.S. Here where I live there are a lot of people of German descent (I'm not one or I would have some money ). There are also some families of North American (US and Canadian) descent. In the urban areas of Mexico, there are a lot of people of Northern European descent and Jews. So, I'm not a complete anomaly.
i just read a reply on another thread (doesnt really matter which one) in which a person made reference to 2 elders and said that they were not too bright, perhaps inbreeding.
presumably this was said because the guys acted in a stupid manner in their counseling and were from the american south.
are southerners really stupid and inbred?
IslandWoman and outoftheorg,
I went to school for a short time in upstate New York. At the time I couldn't believe the things people thought and believed about the south. You make a good point about the negative image that was taught as fact about the south and southerners.
outoftheorg,
I think it is great that you are interested in Spanish. Just use it whenever you can. Coming to Mexico and using it is almost always appreciated.
My experience with Mexican Witnesses was and is very limited. My background is more Texano. We were witness kids and pretty sheltered. I do remember meeting a Mexican guy and his family from Mexico City at an assembly in Corpus Christy one year. We all thought that he spoke funny. He sounded SOOOO "Mexican". Our Spanish was less accented (by our standards).
As for how your in-laws treated you, there are vast differences here from family-to-family. Some are warm and open, some are closed and small-minded. Oddly, here in Chiapas there are a lot of really cold people. Not all by any means, but a lot. In a nation where almost all of us are of Native American descent, we say that such people are "too indian". Even tribal people use that term here. It is applied to people who may even be white who, when you say hello, tend to ignore you or to stare right through you. I think the term is not take as a racial slur because "Native Americans" here are referred to as "Indigenas" (neuter: a man is "un indigena" a woman is "una indigena".)
The witnesses I have run into here seem to be genuinely nice people (except for one particularly nasty woman).
And yes, class and education is a consideration. People of the middle class will almost always try to speak well. I think it is the same in most countries. We speak o f a person who is polite as being "bien educada".
Thanks again for your observations.
Robdar,
Thanks for your comments.
Marcos
