Posts by Marcos

6

Saving for the future - The results

by hippikon in

jw
friends

an old jw freind from way back contacted me and asked to borrow a sizable amount of money to get out of deb.

he realy sounded desperate and i offerd him an oppertunity to earn some money wich he gladly accepted.

but what realy pisses me off is that as a jw's they don't save ( or study) for the future.

Marcos

Hi,

Just tell him no. If he is a friend, he will understand

This is good advice. However, if you choose not to take it, only make a SECURED loan. Get the title to a car or accept a junior deed of trust (if this is legal in your state or province) on his home or other property.

I have had extremely bad experiences lending people money. And not just to witnesses. Mormon bishops wife came by a few months ago with her lilttle girl who was very obviously ill. Had to take her to the hospital and buy medicine too. Could I help out? (I just know them and try to be nice to everyone if possible).

I did. I lent her the rent money and said I needed it paid back in 2 weeks. I told her it was rent money and had to have it back by that time. That was almost 6 months ago. She paid most of it back in such small amounts that it was only good to buy some food with. In the meantime I had some real financial problems. I had lent money to a lot of people. When I needed it most NO ONE paid me!

As far as the witnesses, my experience has been (when I was associated) that when you are down, everyone wants to get in on the ass-kicking. You become fair game and you deserve to be cheated, lied to and ripped off.

But, what the hey. I'm an evil apostate.

Marcos

29

Who likes to read fanstasy genre (dragons etc.)

by SheilaM in

jw
friends

.

to all:.

my hubby and i are getting ready to self publish his book was wondering if any avid readers would like an excerpt that would be willing to give us feedback on it.

Marcos

Hi SheilaM,

Count me in. I love to read!

Marcos

21

Did U hurt someone because of JW rules?

by LyinEyes in

jw
friends

i know we all make mistakes but did you ever really hurt someone while you were a jw, because of sticking to their darn rules?

did you ever, even as it was happening, feel selfrighteous?.

it is something that i have been thru over and over in my head and i have forgiven myself for it, but i can never make it right with the person i hurt.. my dad was an elder , very self righteous, he taught me well, i did what ever he said and acted the way he told me too.

Marcos

As far as hurting our families goes, didn't we all do things that were hurtful?

On a lighter note, I am receiving compensation in full from my son. He's a great kid and I am a "manly man". But, he has said things to me that absolutely devastate me. I have spent many hours crying bitterly over some of the things he has said.

But, there is no question in my mind that he loves me with all of his heart. He has proven this over and over again. As a father, I just can't hate or even dislike him even if I should desire to do so. When I see him again, my heart just melts.

My mom was domineering and mean. My father abused (by mom) and inept at protecting me from her. I regret that I lost respect for my father and left home at 16 under bitter circumstances. My father never stopped loving me. When he died I was on the other side of the world and could do nothing to comfort him. Big regret.

As for my mom, I was able to be with her in her last days. Our relationship reached a new height and I was able to forgive her. She forgave me for being the snot I was as a kid (my words, not her's).

I hurt people in and out of the orgainzation. But, most of us manage to do damage one way or another. It is no excuse but, much of the hurt was actually well-intentioned. I believe that most of us try not to hurt people if we can avoid it. But from the standpoint of being a witness, I think we tended to look at our actions as a bitter but necessary medicine.

We are all entitled to change. We can try to make things right. Some people will accept our apologies and changes and other won't. But, even those we have hurt have hurt others before and after we hurt them. None of us is innocent (excepting, of course babies). Even young children can be hurtful toward other children and even toward adults. We are imperfect.

No one can ask more of you than to do your best from today.

Hang in there.

Marcos

24

Overseer's Visit & Hypocrisy

by JH in

jw
friends

why is it that when the overseer visits the congregation, that just about everybody shows up to the meetings and they all go in the field service?

a whole week of endless zeal just to prove that they are all so spiritual.

is gone, they all come back to normal.

Marcos

To please the CO or DO.

This looks sort of like church attendance on Christmas Eve and Easter Sunday, no?

Marcos

13

How have you rooted out the WT (harmful) doctrines

by Marcos in

jw
friends

when i left the wt i basically never looked back.

i decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.. here is the problem in my case.

after all these years, i have finally been faced with some situations that i had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie.

Marcos

Gig and ThiChi,

Thanks.

If by chance the WT actually provided some good for you, -Gig

I agree with what you say. Truth is, my life is good. My values are solid and I HAVE discarded a lot of the bad stuff. Thing is, I just have started to notice how much the conditioning by the WT from an early age still affects my world-view. What is it the Jesuits say, "Give me a boy when he is 6 (or is it younger?) and he will be a Catholic for life"?

A lot of the teachings that I have investigated are true. But, on the whole, there is so much that is wrong. They have "added" to the Bible and maintain a strong cult-type control over their people. They have done tremendous damage to (I believe) everyone who is associated with them as well as to people who have never been associated. It might well be that this de-programming may take a lifetime. The mind seems to be pretty complex and we often react to things in a way that surprises even us.

For me, it is just that now, I am becoming aware of how deeply rooted many of their incorrect attitudes and judgements are in my world-view. I actually enjoy discovering these things. But. it seems to take great effort to change a belief. Logic and reason alone don't always do it. Remaining flexible and willing to examine your beliefs is a definite necessity. The process is fascinating.

Man, I went through the same thing too. Ray Franz second book, In Search of Christian Freedom, helped me to understand the different viewpoints that can be considered when making your decision. Rays discussion on the blood topic and many other Jw-isms really helped me as a Jw. - ThiChi

Ray Frantz' books are great. Problem is, when I first got copies I didn't really read them. My best friend did and loved them. He often spoke to me about things Ray said and it is due to him, my friend, that I gained a lot of understanding of the issues Ray presents.

Problem at the time was that I knew Ray Frantz. We were not buddies. But I had met him and even sat at his table in the Bethel dining room (I'm pretty sure). When my friend started reading his books, I still wanted nothing to do with the Society. Moreover, from my viewpoint, Ray was "one of them". That is to say, he was one of the higher-ups in Bethel and I was just a drone. So I didn't really want to know much of what he said. I was suspicious.

Who was it that said, "If you're not paranoid you're just not paying attention"? That was my approach as a young man.

In Bethel, when I was there for my 4 years, the "real" Christians didn't mingle much with the drones unless you had some connections (ie. wealthy family). Honestly, I probably wouldn't have trusted Ray if he had noticed me. We felt abused and put-upon. Now, I am speaking of the people who I knew who were just there to work. It is more likely that Ray was always genuine and trustworthy. But. because of my social position, I wouldn't have bought it. My loss.

Sorry to go on and on. But, I'm using you guys. You are giving me a lot of really good ideas and directions.

Marcos

24

ARE YOU a FUNDIE? (quiz)

by Sirona in

ok. fundies.

i'm sick and tired of them.

i'm talking particularly about christian fundies.. what really grates on my nerves is that these people don't even realise they are fundies.

Marcos

Sirona,

Marcos, this tells me that you are not a "Fundie" as far as I can see. I class fundies as the ones who think they're right and everyone else is wrong.

Thanks for your reply. Here's a broad, sweeping generalization for you. I was educated in the US and (maybe it is just me but) often feel awed by the way people in the UK use our (common) language. You all have such a cool way of turning a phrase. So, I was just a little concerned about receiving a well-worded put down.

Truth is, I hate it when people are condescending. By this I refer to many of the "born-agains" who do act in a superior way toward any and all who do not share their particular take on Christianity. When someone asks me, "Have you been born again and do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?" I think, "Oh great, ANOTHER pushy, self-rightious jerk."

My realationship, or lack thereof, is my business. It is between my Savior and me. I try not to be intrusive and I do not like being intruded on. I dislike cult-type thinking even if it is a so-called "Christian" cult.

So in what I perceive to be the spirit of your quiz, I guess I do not fit the classification of a "Fundie".

Thank you for your reply to my post.

Marcos

13

How have you rooted out the WT (harmful) doctrines

by Marcos in

jw
friends

when i left the wt i basically never looked back.

i decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.. here is the problem in my case.

after all these years, i have finally been faced with some situations that i had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie.

Marcos

Thanks Kingpawn.

As I spend more time here, I am checking out the previous threads. This is certainly a fine resource.

One reason I started this thread was because there are so many of us here who are new. "Old" information to many of you can be new to many of us. Also, a new discussion sometimes seems to bring out even more useful information.

I really appreciate your answer and look forward to many more!

Marcos

13

How have you rooted out the WT (harmful) doctrines

by Marcos in

jw
friends

when i left the wt i basically never looked back.

i decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.. here is the problem in my case.

after all these years, i have finally been faced with some situations that i had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie.

Marcos

Spaz!!!

I swear you are following me! Every time I look at and answer one post, there you are with another comment!

Seriously, I really appreciate your comments. And this topic is one that has been occupying me for a while now. I know that these things have almost certainly been covered before. But I am lazy. Also, today is a new day and I think (hope) that some of the posters here can provide some "new light" on the subject.

See! There it is again! Can't seem to drop the theocratic jargon.

Marcos

15

What will the WT become? (Sort of a Survey)

by Marcos in

i have been out for a long time.

to give you an idea of how long, the concept of not offering subscriptions anymore is news to me!.

as they continue consolidating and down-sizing, what affect do you all think this will have on individual witnesses and on their organization as a whole?

Marcos

Hi Spaz,

What makes you say the JW's are consolidating and down-sizing?

I am just seeing a lot of posts regarding moving facilities and the new "closedness" to people. They used to really push the subscriptions (I worked for a time on the wrapping machine that folded and addressed the mags). I also refer to the possible sale of properties in Brooklyn. It is difficult to sort out rumor from fact at this point and I have been out of the loop for so long that many of the actions that they have taken (especially being so suspicious about letting anyone not a witness get their literature) leave me wondering.

What makes you allude to mass-suicide? In my life-long experience with the dubs, suicide was always frowned upon.

Suicide was always frowned upon. I assume it still is. I use it as an extreme example of the course many cults have taken to either make a statement or to show how different they are. Many have commented on what looks to me like a tendency toward more isolationism among the witnesses.

I do not think or hope for such a thing. I am just wondering what the WT will look like in 1 year or 5 or 10.

Marcos

13

How have you rooted out the WT (harmful) doctrines

by Marcos in

jw
friends

when i left the wt i basically never looked back.

i decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.. here is the problem in my case.

after all these years, i have finally been faced with some situations that i had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie.

Marcos

When I left the WT I basically never looked back. I decided that they would never again impact my life as they had in the past.

Here is the problem in my case. After all these years, I have finally been faced with some situations that I had to react to and have seen that a lot of the old teachings were still influencing my decisions in life (ie. the blood issue). To be truthful, I have not had to face these issues before so I never really investigated, in depth, their implications in a "normal" life.

I am beginning to realize that much of my behavior is still STRONGLY influenced by WT thinking.

My question is, how have you confronted and rooted out ideas that might have affected your life in a negative of less than useful way? I see the need to research my beliefs and attitudes. I would just like to get some input regarding ways you all have dealt with these things.

Marcos