Posts by Marcos

16

Do the loving elders hate you?

by JH in

jw
friends

do you have the impression that the elders never liked you, and were happy to see you leave, because they simply didn't like your way of thinking?

maybe if you came back, they would do everything to get you disfellowshipped again.

edited by - jh on 26 december 2002 19:28:50.

Marcos

Two "elders" stick out in my mind. Both older guys when I knew them and former missionaries to Latin American countries. One in a congregation in Texas in the late 60's and the other in the Tempe Az congregation in the mid-70s.

Neither of them knew me from Adam. I was young and look very caucasian, not Latino. Both of them were SO jealous that my command of Spanish was so good. As I said, they did not know me or anything about me or my family. They both struggled with Spanish and took my command of the language as a personal affront.

I always tried to be friendly but neither would have any of it. One even made some negative observations about me when I had a little set-to with Bethel over an incident after completing my sentence there. I know because the comment was read to me at a JC I had to attend.

There were other "elders" who didn't like me but these two really pointed out the jealousy of many of the "shepherds".

Marcos

5

advice giving

by yumbby in

jw
friends

it's really amazing the changes you go through getting away from the "troof".. things you didn't even know affected you.

like compulsive advice giving.

did you ever notice that witnesses are conditioned to have an answer for everything???

Marcos

Yeah, isn't "I don't know" a great thing?!

It has been said that we really have no right to give advice unless someone asks us for advice. And even then, it is often best just to "take the 5th".

Sometimes, even in my case, a person just wants to rant a little, just be heard. Often that is enough. Then we often get a fresh perspective. I always hated my habit of not letting someone finish (because I KNEW what they were going to say). Now, I don't always feel the need to do that. Surprising how well people seem to relate to that.

I now like to keep my mouth shut and let them think I'm an idiot than to open my mouth and prove it.

Well, I'm still working on that.

Marcos

17

Did anybody get The Bell?

by Nickey in

jw
friends

during the thocratic school during our tuesday meetings, i dreaded hearing the bell.

*ding* someone had run over 5 minutes and had to cut their talk short.. this part always disturbed me.

nevermind the fact that these people worked hard to prepare their talk about something they felt was worthwhile, they have to be humiliated and cut off in front of the whole congregation.

Marcos

I don't remember getting the bell, but I'm sure I did.

On the positive side, I learned how to sum up or pad my matierial as needed. This has actually served me quite well. I have given non-witness public talks and have a fairly extensive number of television and radio interviews as well as commercials. This sense of timing has really helped me.

Additionally the KM School cured me of my stage fright. I am still pretty shy (or reserved, I guess) but can block that out when I need to to deliver good information in an allotted time-frame.

This is one of the very few positive things I took away from the JWs.

Marcos

20

Funniest/Most outrageous/Most Shocking/ thing...

by Happy in

jw
friends

i was just wondering what was the most astounding thing you guys have had a jw say to you.

whether it was while you were still in the borg or after you left.

i've heard some rather funny stories on this subject.

Marcos

My best friend and another mutual friend were in a meeting with Max Larson (then the factory overseer in Brooklyn) back in 19 and 73. I was already discharged the year before after having put in my 4 years. I left voluntarily and with great joy. Anyway these two brothers were in trouble for having returned a week late from their vacation. We had all crossed the country by car and had a lot of great adventures on the way.

We had returned to Brooklyn and entered Bethel that day, uninvited, to have lunch and raise a little hell. I had been gone for a year but when we went down to one of the dining rooms to eat, one of the table heads asked ME if the other 3 or 4 guys were with me (seems he recognized me but not the others). I assured him that everything was "cool" and that they were my guests. I still get a kick out of that.

My buddy was roomng in the Squibb building and we had gone in that morning to start packing his stuff. He had put in 3 years but was being asked to leave for returning a week late. In came the "House Servant" for that building to raise a fuss. We made fun of him and told him to get out. He left in a snit. I mentioned to him that he should not let the door hit him in the ass on his way out.

Anyway, my buddy and our mutual friend had already been invited to Max Larson's office to "discuss" their bad attitudes. That meeting concluded with (I think) one of Larson's henchmen saying, "If we were still living under Jewish law, we MIGHT have to stone you." My buddy responded by saying; "Well then, it's good that we no longer live under that law then, isn't it?"

We all spent another week in New York City. Bethel obviously knew where we were and kept calling trying to get us all to come in for another inquisition. We just laughed.

All it ever got us was public reproof when we returned to the West Coast. Well, I was told that this was announced in every congregation that we had ever attended. In my case, all over the US.

Ahhhh, the good ol' days!

Marcos

Edited by - marcos on 25 December 2002 23:13:42

8

Anyone here from Cuba?

by zenpunk in

i'm going to cuba on a college trip (couldn't have done that as a jw

Marcos

Zenpunk,

I must say, I'm a little nervous about going - that I really have to keep my wits about me.

Not to worry! You will be with a group, right? Where will you go? I spent most of my time in the Province of Havana in the country. If you are in a position to meet any of the locals, you might be able to spend time with a Cuban family. It would almost certainly be a rewarding experience.

One further caution. Ah, forgive me for being so forward but I must mention that the sexual climate in Cuba is much more "open" than it is in the US or in Mexico. Being as how you are an Ex and all, be forewarned that this is a striking difference in the culture. Don't be caught off-guard. Also, lycra is universal. I made the mistake of thinking my first time that there were a LOT of "ladies for hire" because a lot of women wear very tight-fitting shorts. It is just another local custom. Incidentally, I only "thought" it, I was generally a good boy.

But DO keep your wits about you.

More than anything, HAVE FUN!

Later,

Marcos

Edited by - marcos on 24 December 2002 22:6:0

8

Anyone here from Cuba?

by zenpunk in

i'm going to cuba on a college trip (couldn't have done that as a jw

Marcos

Hi Zenpunk and Merry Christmas!

I'm not from Cuba but I have family there and have spent some time there as recently as a couple of years ago.

If you have any specific questions I could answer, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected].

I was never there as a tourist. Even so, I was always welcomed by the soldiers manning immigration. The people there were friendly and helpful. Just be cautious of people who you don't know trying to sell you things or panhandling. They are pretty savvy about tourists.

My experience is that it is better to take US dollars with you. They spend better. However, don't make a fuss if they return your change in Cuban currency. This is the normal practice. My experience is that most people will not try to cheat you. The only place that you need to look out for would be some of the barrios in Havana. But in most places you are perfectly safe to wander about.

You might notice that sometimes if you walk into a restaurant or other establishment they will turn off the tv. This is because they are sensitive about "outsiders" hearing things that are considered to be "in the family". Also, if you trade in small, private businesses you will be able to find what you want. If you go to one of the "state" stores, it will be interesting to walk into a rather large store and see just a few items for sale on the shelves. The clerks are often also rather testy. I have seen a clerk yell at a large group of people who were trying to make purchases and tell them that she would be back when they could behave better. Customer service, for the Cubans, is almost non-existant.

Probably, most of your purchases will be in the shops and lobbys of the hotel(s) you stay at. I think prices will be a little higher but still a bargain.

Please be sensitive about giving away personal items. You don't want to appear to be too, how shall I say it, showy. If you have family or make acquaintances with friends or family of friends, I'm sure that your gifts will be well receive if given discreetly.

I once asked my friends and family how they got along (financially) at times when they had nothing (literally no food, no clothing available) and yet remained so happy? They told me, "No problem, we just get together and share our misery!"

The roads and hiways are fairly good (generally better than in Mexico) AND you can drink the water! Health care is the best in Latin America. Indeed, one of Cuba's main exports is doctors to many other countries. I know firsthand about medical care as I was injured while in Cuba and was taken care of promptly and professionally. I should mention that I suffered a sever cut to my hand. I teased the doctor. I told him, "I swear you were cleaning out the wound with rum and steel brush!" He laughed and denied it. I still think he used rum - heh, heh, heh.

I think you will have a great time. Also worth noting, all of the people with whom I came in contact regard American people very well.

If I think of anything else that might be of use to you, I will post again. But, if you wish to ask me anything, write to me and I will try to answer. I'm not an expert but I do have first hand experience.

Marcos

32

What's going on ?

by Rockmangames in

jw
friends

why are people here said happy birthday..cheers..etc etc which that are against in jehovah's eyes when it is jehovahs witness forum here ?

dont they see that its is j e h o v a h s - w i t n e s s forum ?

i am so confused and i am so lost.

Marcos

Hey Rockman,

Grab a Bible and a "your-Native-Language to English" dictionary, stick around and learn the Truth.

You will be shocked at the lies you are being taught in the Kingdom Hall.

Merry Christmas and a very prosperous New Year!

Marcos

13

Could be an angel

by Marcos in

jw
friends

mexico, monday the 23rd.. as i sit here spending time scanning this website i am interrupted by yet another beggar at my front gate.. sad story.

he's from columbia.

has an open wound on his leg and just wants some work so he can go to the hospital and avoid infection.

Marcos

Hi Shari!

First of all, how is your son doing? Mine is sitting in the livingroom watching tv right now. (Thank God he is at home.)

I had a friend once. Her name is Martha.(she is now a JW thanks to me) She is from Quatamala(sp) She had to come here in order to send money home to feed her children. Her husband passed away and there were no jobs for her where she lived.

Yes, Guatemala is OUR Mexico. Things are really hard over there. It is common for people from here too to go to the US and send money home. It is a major part of the economy in many countries. I think almost any parent would do what they had to do to feed their children.

As for Americans being spoiled; I guess that is one way of stating it. Some are, you can see it by the way they freak out if they don't get their way down here. The kids (some, enough to merit a generalization) on Spring Break are a major source of embarassment for their parents as well as for us.

When I lived in Japan what I saw made me look at Japan as a sort of island Disneyland. The kids and most adults just could not conceive of the realities of life outside of Japan. They had around the clock care. The realities of the world outside just didn't penetrate the wall between them and the rest of the world.

The US and Canada are similar in that, if someone has no ties to the outside world, the realities of that world are far off and unreal. I know, I've lived there. People are nice, well meaning people. They are just naive. I have actually heard people say, "Tijuana is not the REAL MEXICO". Fact is, it IS the "real Mexico". Its just not Puerto Vallarta, Cancun or Acapulco.

It is pretty easy to talk about what people "should" do to take care of their problems. It is quite another to actually be involved in it day in and day out.

Only by experiencing a culture and participating in it can you really comprehend to any degree what might be the route to any solution.

Mole Poblano. Hmmm. Well, it is not my specialty. But, I will ask around. Our mole is probably a little different than what you have in mind. Oaxaca (state) is famous for it's mole. Chiapas (my home state) has its own ideas. I'll try to find something acceptable. You do know that, at least here, a lot of chocolate is used in the mix?

I'll try to come up with something.

Nice talking to you again.

Marcos

Oh, yeah, Lilacs, Xander and all, Merry Christmas!

Island Woman, thanks for your post. Your mom sounds great and so typical!

Edited by - marcos on 24 December 2002 0:42:45

13

Could be an angel

by Marcos in

jw
friends

mexico, monday the 23rd.. as i sit here spending time scanning this website i am interrupted by yet another beggar at my front gate.. sad story.

he's from columbia.

has an open wound on his leg and just wants some work so he can go to the hospital and avoid infection.

Marcos

No argument.

The trick, of course, is for the people in the poorer countries to STOP REPRODUCING BEYOND THEIR MEANS TO SUPPORT.

However, we are now entering into the sacred bedroom. Mention to an American that you would like to regulate how many children they can have and you are just asking for trouble. In the educated class of Latin Americans, the rate of birth is lower. I am thinking that the same is true, generally, for families in the first world. Do the less well educated people in most countries tend to have more children than they can support? I believe so.

Humans seem to be more emotional than rational.

I understand that many tend to look at this problem from more of a practical standpoint than Christian. My point still has more to do with what IS than with what SHOULD BE.

Thanks,

Marcos

13

Could be an angel

by Marcos in

jw
friends

mexico, monday the 23rd.. as i sit here spending time scanning this website i am interrupted by yet another beggar at my front gate.. sad story.

he's from columbia.

has an open wound on his leg and just wants some work so he can go to the hospital and avoid infection.

Marcos

I also have had a lot of the experiences you all have mentioned:

I live in San Francisco and there are many bums on the street.

I was tapped last night by a lad feining interest in my religion to try to get a freebee.

I think that we can all more or less spot a con. But there are many people who are actually in need. My time dealing with people trying to scam did a lot to harden my attitude toward beggars. The thing is, not everyone is a con-artist. I have seen people who are really in need.

I am far from being a liberal. I am very conservative in my life and not easily fooled. I have no interest in preaching about the "poor, downtrodden masses". But, please understand that the context is different. This is the third world on the border with the fourth world. The majority of the beggars that I see are really in need.

I mean no personal criticism when I say you should take a look outside the US and Canada sometime to see what a lot of people go through. For example, visit Mexico. Not Acapulco or Cancun. But, Mexico. More of the world is like what we see here everyday than what it is like in first world countries.

Hell, visit Cuba. See what being shunned for more than 40 years has done to people there. Instead of spending a vacation on the Varadero (the tourist-oriented peninsula northeast of Havana) visit some of the small towns. Walk around (you can do that in Cuba day or night) and see how the people live. Truth is, people actually live better in Cuba than in most of Latin America. Moreover, they are more neighbor-oriented than in most of the first world.

The examples I give are not intended to show how selfish and insensitive you all are and how sensitive and caring we are. It is more to do with a real sense of frustration at seeing a lot of suffering and only being able to offer a piece of bread or a couple of pesos at most. It has more to do with seeing people who have been "running on empty" for decades, real nice people, and wishing there was more I could do.

Some of the Scriptures that really hit home deal with "giving to he that asks" and "clothing one who is naked" (I have experienced this) and "giving water to someone who is thirsty". Taking care of widows and fatherless boys.

These things are on my mind right now not just because of the season. It is more out of a sense of frustration. The look that I get when someone asks me for "just a couple or tortillas" when all you have in the house is your last pot of rice and you have to feed your own kid.

I think it is wise to not be taken in by scammers. But, it is also good to do good where we can. I just feel badly for the ones I have to turn away...

Marcos

P.S. I don't need money! Things always work out one way or another. Just felt the need to share some of the hard realities of life on the other side of the barbwire fence.

Edited by - marcos on 23 December 2002 23:8:22