there have been many postings regarding the possible war with iraq.
there are many strong apposing views, as to be expected.. i personally am going to thank all those who are in the military; my hat is off to you, and i respect what you do, and i am very thankful.
you are the ones that must go out there and defend our freedoms.. i don't think most people desire war, but sometimes there seems to be little choice.
"Yeru and DakotaRed (one a vet, the other an active soldier) ... I wouldn't give a dime for their understanding of the Scriptures."
Fday
You reap what you sow. At that point you were no longer respected.I.M.O. The only one without a spine is you. I also would not buy your pity for a dime. Reply only if you wish to waste your time.
Jay (Not caring what you say)
hey folks.
just bumped into my father & mother in-law, cool as cucumbers they ask if i'm screwing around behind their daughter's back (we've been apart 8 months), yes i am says me, i we go our seperate ways!!.
a visit from the elders?
You could have asked your father in law, "Why are you cruzing for a peice of ass?" (J.M.T.)
most of the jws i met were sincere people.
not perfect, i have my horror stories too, but most were decent people.
i am not discounting the horrible things i hear on this forum.
You are right JT my wife is an EX JW. She is the finest of people. But those that leave according to my understanding of JW policy could not tow the rope. They are not who I am talking about. Once you are out you are not the same person. If you are caught not towing the rope what happens? To me that living a double life is part of the problem. You should be free to stand up and work to make changes and not have to leave. You should be able to honor yourself and your family and your friends and your relgion and not have to choose between them. That is why I speak out. Because when we all band togther we are stronger than when we are apart.
When I was silent for so many years I did no one any favors. My self included. I validated the abuse by not speaking out. Now I do speak for those that will listen. I looked for every scrap of good I could find to excused the bad stuff. When I could not find anything good I stayed quite. When I condem the JW's it is the relgion. It's the policy that hurts people and hurts children. It's the false doctrine that kills people and breaks up good marriages while locking people in bad ones. I criticize the individual for being gullible to that phony Jehvoah is in Brookylin, and we are the Ark stuff.
a lot of people that weren't elders show why they became witnesses in the first place.
they complain about the attitude of former elders but they never look at their own crappy attitudes.
maybe, it's because being a jerk has nothing necessarily to do with being a former elder.
Minimus,
Do you mean it in the context of that an ex alcoholic is the same asshole with fewer dents in his car?
most of the people that i know of that got married in a kingdom hall never admitted to "loose conduct" or "fornication" until sometime after their consciences bothered them.
some never had a conscience issue , but they did tell their friends , who, in turn, told others that they really weren't "qualified" to get married in the hall.
do you think that most jw couples "fool around" before they get married?
Minimus,
When people burn for each other close the door.... OK?
What is your personal experience? :)
most of the jws i met were sincere people.
not perfect, i have my horror stories too, but most were decent people.
i am not discounting the horrible things i hear on this forum.
Why do we (or are we told to) pray to be kept from evil? Maybe to keep from doing harm? To not "hurt" people?
You may do 1000 things that are helpful. (But I know not one such JW) That does not mean that it is OK to hurt someone. And, JW's do hurt people, entire families. I have never met more vindictive people in my life. "Love" is so confused with a desire to be accepted that it is no longer any form of love that I know. It is all about control. Every abusive person has a good side. And, that good side is what people cling to. It keeps them hanging on. Hope that somehow all the abuse will somehow have been worth it. It's not. Period.
Jehovah Witnesses are fine if you do a few things. Never, Never, never, challenge their doctrine. Never point out the 120 years of failed prophet telling. Never stand up to the torturing of a disfellowshipped or unpopular once acceptable relgion goer. Never do anything that any older person in a JW family tells you not to do. Do not go for a higher education. Do not refuse them indoctrinating your children. Do not offer help without criticizing the person. Do not not talk behind peoples back. (Refuse to hear gossip) Do not ever stand up to a wacko elder. Do not refuse an invite to Easter (haha) Never stand up for anyone in your familly who is shunned. Never catch them in a lie and hold them attonable. Never expect a sincere appology. Never talk positive about the world. And basicly take no offense to them walking all over you and not repecting your personal boundries.
If you can do all of that they might be alright. If not then you will see a demon like no other kind. (J.M.E.)
P.S. I went to your link on the JW's Skeptic, Good work.
there have been many postings regarding the possible war with iraq.
there are many strong apposing views, as to be expected.. i personally am going to thank all those who are in the military; my hat is off to you, and i respect what you do, and i am very thankful.
you are the ones that must go out there and defend our freedoms.. i don't think most people desire war, but sometimes there seems to be little choice.
"of course democracy is the best way of rulership...but in the US you have in reality only 2 parties...and the politics of these two parties is very similar and mainly controled by industrial lobbies. Nader has no chnace because of the structure of the US 'democracy'.
do you think the US is targeted by arab extrimists because of its foreign politics or because the US is a free country?"
Realist,
The 2 parties...I agree, kind of a sheep mentality. There are other parties out there like the libertarian party they have many good ideas that might take to the moderate republicans. We will see in time. Republican or Democrat? (Dime a dozen IMO.)
The extreamists do what they do because they see power that they want. They want to be a government of their own where their way is the way. If they kill the infedels along the way that is a plus. IMO it is not so much me or american gluttony, it is their own desire for power. And, yes what I refer to as freedom they refer to as an abomination against God. They see the worst of our culture and project that as the way that everyone lives. If so then my monogamy with my wife...I must be missing out...Oh well, at least I am happy. Even in the 3rd world most people live better today than kings and queens 1000 years ago. But these guys have to evolve beyond the concepts of ruling dyanasties and tyrants. We can come in by force and they will quit fighting long enough to fight us so that they can get back to fighting each other. (And the band plays on.)
Remember the food drop that killed the family in Afganistan. Only America could be guilty of that.
why does god allow this stuff?
according to your teachings, believers, just so he can stroke himself and show how man has failed.
in fact believers will read this stuff and shrug it off because in the future god will fix it it and it just proves why we need god..
Donkey,
When I have looked for "god" I have only found him in a mirror.
AGuest,
Thanks for dropping peace.
If "god" can intervine and does not then it is apathetic and not worthy of worship. If "god" cannot intervine then it is not all powerful and is not worthy of worship. The way I cope with the barbaric acts some human animals inflict upon one another is maybe "god" expects us to stop them. We may be the only "faith" we have but also we may be the only "faith" we need. We need to evolve into beings that believe in ourselves and our own unique abilities to solve our own delemias and stop waiting on a galatic mommie to come solve problems that we create. We can fix them all by ourselves and when we are ready that is what we will do.
No one can make a wrong like donkey brought to us right. There is no punishment fitting for the kind of animal that harms a child with unnessesary malice and evil intent. It would be better if that person was never born. Maybe we can work to be a counter-balance. There is extreame evil in this world. But, there also is alteristic extreame good. We get to decide where we get into the river of sin. And, we decide what we do in that river.
Unless you are a Jehovah Witness like person then you just sit on the river bank and whine at all the people swimming by; Point out their flaws and ignore their own.
hey all - new here.. well i have now just bee shut off from my family and branded disfeloowshipped and an apostate.
sheesh anyway - for those of you who have been through simular - let me know.. craig.
jhb south africa
Craig,
I know that being df'ed is a bad thing from inside the KH. So for that I am sorry for the hardness that you will find from the people that you once cared for. My best advice is that when someone says that I will love you "if" that is not love that is control.
I hope you will consider reading some of the material on abusive or high control groups. The relgion you were a part of is only one of many. Learning how and why people are compelled to control might help you to be a better person. It might also help you to understand why some people do such bizzare things to try and control each other.
Take care, and my email is open if you need to talk.
Jay
one thing i found effective to recover from shunning by the jws, which devastated me, was this truth.
people tend to move in "tribes.
" i had been in a rather exotic and weird tribe, the watchtower and jehovah's witnesses.
(((Jerry)))
Nick At Nite still has Norm.
Thank you for your/our thoughts.
One thing I can add is when or if you are learning about the Jehovah Witnesses by the Jehovah Witnesses don't give in to feelings or pressure that you have to find a reason to validate or excuse abusive behavior. Criticism of idea's or conduct is not condemnation. The condemnation that religion holds of the world or anyone who speaks out against any act, belief, or actions by the Watchtower makes any fair criticism about the order of things all but impossible; It ends in condemnation of the religion by their actions and refusal to answer questions honestly or the unwillingness to learn rationaly. Even that is condemnation of the relgious order not the indivdual. Criticsim of the individual for being gullible.
(First time putting all this thoughts in one paragrah. Criticism is welcome:)
