Posts by truthsetsfree

16

Please help with WT quote

by yesidid in

jw
friends

could someone please help me with the wt article where they say that you do not even have to speak to others about the things with which you don't agree with the society to be dfd.

just the fact that you believe differently can get you zapped.

need the info to help wavering friend.

OOPS! Mary, I was reading posts so fast I flip-flopped your message inside my cluttered head. I misread it to think that you were thinking the opposite....My sincerest and heartfelt apologies for posting without reading carefully and misconstruing your meaning. I haven't been on here long, I bet if I had read any other posts of yours and was familiar with your writing I wouldn't have made such an error. Again, I'm sorry. If I have offended I'll be happy to send you some Christmas cookies to make it up to you. I'll be making kolacky soon...do you prefer apricot or raspberry filling?

I will read more carefully before I post next time!

16

Please help with WT quote

by yesidid in

jw
friends

could someone please help me with the wt article where they say that you do not even have to speak to others about the things with which you don't agree with the society to be dfd.

just the fact that you believe differently can get you zapped.

need the info to help wavering friend.

truthsetsfree

Mary,
The difference between so called "new light" (changing prophecy) and changing teachings is that other religions (okay, some) aren't prophesying..the WT is. They should (not always saying they do) then explain their thinking (when they make a change) according to the whole light of scripture, while the WT uses all sorts of convoluted reasoning. That is the difference I see. Now, of course for me or anyone else to speak of other religions as one big lump is a little unreasonable. But here's an example: I belong to a protestant church in which we subscribe to certain confessions and creeds (ie the Westminster Confession of faith, the apostles creed, the Athanasian creed, nicene creed, among others.) These confessions and creeds were penned to address confusion in the church at the time/reaffirm clarify the beliefs. Such statements of faith also address anyone trying to tinker with teachings in an unbiblical way. Hope I'm being clear on all this.

I am aware that there are religious groups that have dramatic changes in teachings-not gonna name 'em here cuz I don't want to get in trouble (not in the mood for it today). When a person sees that happening, they need to study and investigate what that group is all about, ask questions, just as many of the people on this forum feel we should do with the teachings of the WT!

I'm not being as clear as I would like due to time constraints, so I hope that all who read this will understand it in the spirit in which it is intended.

56

Fred Price a Jehovah's Witness????

by JT in

jw
friends

for years i have seen this guy on tv i recall going out to la for a dc and his church was located in the territory of the bethelites family i stayed with and we laughed at how he was getting over on folks, just taking their money.

and now i learn that he got his early training from the jehovahs witnesses.

yes i think fred price is my new idol.

truthsetsfree

RE: the statement that more bloodshed has been committed in the name of God, I offer these figures...
Stalin (hated religious people)-wasn't it something like 20 million?
Hitler (definitely not a Godly man)-6+ million
Communist China and other communist nations-who knows how many

RE:the Spanish inquisitions and other atrocities-if you study their religious documents you'll quickly see that their actions were in opposition to what they claimed to believe. So, they weren't really acting for God. The argument in an earlier post is a tired and unsubstantiated one.

8

Gifts of the Holy Spirit

by freddi in

jw
friends

on my long journey from trying to find a place where god actually resides, i have been to many a church.

i know that he does not reside in any building but i do like the fellowship along the way.

i used to be a church hopper when i left the k.h.

truthsetsfree

Hi, I'm not a former witness but I believe I can speak to your question. First of all, if you repent of your sins and ask Christ to take control of your life, you are filled with the Spirit. Although some people will tell you that you have to experience something like speaking in tongues, the letters of Paul in the Bible clearly state that not all have tongues...even back then! I suggest you read Paul's letters in the N.T., especially the parts on spiritual gifts. Of course don't read them i n the NWT. You'll find it interesting.

You may also find it interesting to know that among Bible-teaching Christian churches, there is quite a disparity of belief on whether or not the gifts continue to this day. I know people who sincerely love God and are saved who go both ways. Let me caution you (and I know that this may be a problem having come out of WTS) that this, in my opinion, is an area in which Christians can have differences of opinion and still both be saved. The important thing is that we know that we are saved by grace!! I have known of people in churches where not only do they believe in the perpetuity of spiritual gifts but people become depressed or feel like they are missing out, less spiritual or perhaps even unsaved if they lack tongues or some other "showy" gift. Paul clearly lets us know that this is not true--read I Corinthians 12 (the whole chapter), and also I Cor. 14. By the way, where chapter 14 talks about prophesying, I suggest you think twice about what it really means to prophesy. There's more to prophecy than the traditional Watchtower business of making predictions. There is more than one meaning; if you'd like to learn more I'd suggest you read Grudem's Systematic Theology's section on spiritual gifts. It talks about prophecy as wisdom given one from God. You can get Grudem's Systematic Theology in any good Christian bookstore, or you could get it online from Christian Book Distributors. It's very readable even for non-theologians! We use ours all the time.

In closing, I don't want this issue to discourage you. Find out the truth from the Bible, not just from what others have told you (that's what gets people into trouble, as I'm sure you well know). As for me, I'm still deciding what I think on the whole issue. I think some of the gifts continue, but I'm not sure about others.

36

Help! Neighbor starting a study

by Trotafox in

i am so furious.

the very zealous elderly pioneer sister who lives across the street (alberta) has been canvassing the neighborhood for studies.

i watch her walk up and down the street and being very friendly and helpful with her neighbors (all the while preaching to them i'm sure).

truthsetsfree

Trot, was I correct in my impression that you came out of the JWs? Correct me if I'm wrong.
If you were, tell her your story. I think I speak for many people who have never been in in that, much of the population has an impression that the JWs are kind of odd, though most who have never dug into the issue cannot tell you why. Mary may have had such an impression, but now that she's hanging with Alberta she may be thinking that they're not so bad. And they know so much about the Bible!! (ha!) She may need to hear your story. If you choose to tell her, go calm, avoid being bitter and she'll listen better (yes I know it'll be hard). And go from there. I think many people are sucked in 'cuz they just don't know the truth. You do. Good luck and God bless.

19

? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree in

jw
friends

i am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door.

(i may not change their minds but i'd like to plant seeds of doubt!

) i am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?

truthsetsfree

Wednesday, my goal is definitely to get them to question their faith, if only a tiny bit (maybe over time it will have a cumulative effect). I'm not trying to get rid of them--I could do that well, you should see me get rid of a telemarketer sometime (always polite, no profanity : )). Thanks for making some points.

19

? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree in

jw
friends

i am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door.

(i may not change their minds but i'd like to plant seeds of doubt!

) i am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?

truthsetsfree

Oops, forgot to say thanks Mary for the run down on their chronology. I've waded through trying to get the gist of what they predicted, and you encapsulated it all very nicely.

19

? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree in

jw
friends

i am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door.

(i may not change their minds but i'd like to plant seeds of doubt!

) i am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?

truthsetsfree

Thank you all again. David, I thank you for your concern for my well being; I don't want to be the featured act at the next district assembly, that's for sure! You can sure pray for me that I am clear thinking and dependent on God in future encounters with my visitors. I am aware that this is a dangerous organization, and I do believe it is from (people can argue this point on another thread if they so wish) Satan. ( I am also aware of how they "love bomb" you; they complimented my beautiful children and dog. Yes the kids are cute but the dog needs a grooming and is a hideous old mutt!)
In the last several weeks I have been reading about the JWs from an inside and outside perspective, including their hilariously funny account of their own history, Proclaiming the Kingdom or whatever it's called. Have you read that thing. What a piece of drivel. Lots of wacky stuff, but I found it especially interesting that they make efforts to rationalize their failures of the 1800's, 1914, 1925and 1975. Perhaps enough JWs have been confronted with it by outsiders such as myself that they felt it important that the WT address it rather than their have sheep hear it from us.
SKally-Brownies??? I'm afraid to ask. Video camera??? Hey, that sounds promising. Then I could send you all the video and you could critique. : )
It sounds like the prevailing wisdom is to chip away at the credibility of the WTS, rather than to go after individual points of doctrine. I appreciate all of your help!!

19

? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree in

jw
friends

i am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door.

(i may not change their minds but i'd like to plant seeds of doubt!

) i am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?

truthsetsfree

First of all, you guys are awesome! I appreciate all you've said and look forward to hearing from others as well.

I kinda had a hunch that Miss "b" was a newbie.

I got the impression from Blondie that you have to prove yourself (do lotsa Kingdom work) before they'll baptize you. Whatever happened to "repent, believe and be baptized"? In my church (where we believe the BIBLE) you profess faith, then you get wet!

Caligirl, your statement about how they try to make you doubt your faith is so right on, I immediately surmised that by reading their booklet. So many red flags flew up as I read it. I can see how one who isn't firmly grounded in scripture could be bamboozled.

Nathan, great observations! It also brought to mind another question, how to chip away and cause doubt. I was thinking about chipping away at the authority of the WTS, due to all it's failures and inconsistencies. Former JWs, is this a logical approach? Or go after doctrine? Or only go after doctrine as a way to point out WTS inconsistencies? There are so many flaws, it's hard to decide where to begin!!!

19

? re door to door JWs

by truthsetsfree in

jw
friends

i am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door.

(i may not change their minds but i'd like to plant seeds of doubt!

) i am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?

truthsetsfree

I am not a witness or ex-witness but rather a 35 year old mom engaging in a dialogue with witnesses who are coming to my door. (I may not change their minds but I'd like to plant seeds of doubt!) I am trying to figure out what is behind a strategy (?)of theirs. Here goes:
1st visit: Miss "a" (who does all the talking) and Miss "b", both probably in their 20's, come to my door saying the usual stuff about how bad things are in the world...I smile and take their literature, we share names.
2nd visit: Miss "a" and Miss "b'" return, we chitchat briefly at door, they offer me booklet containing 12-13 lesson study ("What does God require of us" or something like that), I state that I always like to talk about people about what we believe, they go on their way. I expect they will be back.
3rd visit: Miss "a" and Mrs "c" ( 50-ish) arrive at my house, I invite them in and we talk a little about the study, talk about a couple of Bible verses...we don't get real in depth because they say they don't have much time.
4th visit: 2 1/2 weeks later, Mrs. "c" arrives with Mrs "d" (maybe in her 70's?), we cannot talk at that time because I'm leaving to pick up child from school. I ask as I did on their previous visit that they call ahead so I can know to expect them so they won't be inconvenieced (which is true but also because I like to be in the right frameof mind when we talk!). This happened today.

My real question is: Why the changing cast of characters each time they call? is this their standard M.O.? Do they feel you out and if they think you'll be easy/tough send the appropriate troops? Or are they trying introduce you to as many people as possible so you'll feel at home when you visit the kingdom hall (I won't). If you can enlighten me I'd certainly be interested! Many thanks!