Posts by ProfCNJ

79

I know 2 of the Elders on the Ray Franz JC

by James Jackson in

when i read coc, i was stunned that the 2 elders (theotis french & rob dibble) were on ray franz judcial committee.

i have known these men for over 20 years having done rbc and convention work with them.

they are still elders today which means they were in their early 30's(which is unheard of for a case of this importance to have inexperienced elders to sit on) on this committee.. without revealing myself, i have never tried(but have wanted to), ask them about their on having to judge a former gb member.. then out of the blue, about a year ago, i was mentioning how hard it is trying to get younger ones to volunteer to one of these elders, and he says"this is nothing compared to to sitting on the committee that had to disfellowship ray franz".

ProfCNJ

Hi James, fellow lurkers, veteran contributors and brothers in faith. I am confused with the Elder's book being used to disfellowship the brothers, most especially Ray. If we will take a look at 1 Cor. 5:11-13 (ESV), nowhere do we see that a brother - who has shared a meal with a person (pretending to be brother) guilty of certain acts - should be disfellowshipped or ex-communicated.

"11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church [a] whom you are to judge? 13 God judges [b] those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

The Apostle Paul was speaking to the Congregation of Corinth, exhorting the members NOT TO ASSOCIATE with such pretentious brother. I felt he was castigating them because of their being "proud or boastful" of such man. Perhaps they have tolerated the matter with pride. Yet there was no instruction that whoever eats with him, that Christian should also be expelled. If there's any consequence for disobeying, I guess the brother should instead be reminded and advised properly, or perhaps reproved at the most. But disfellowshiping the guy is like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly.

Hence, what is the basis of the Elder's book? If there is a glaring conflict between that organizational book and the Bible, I guess we know which should prevail and be used for such a sensitive matter.

24

An update on shunning (at the store).

by quellycatface in

jw
friends

i was called into a meeting by one of the department managers last week.

i had a meeting this morning.. anyway, to cut a long story short.

the people involved in this will be called into a private meeting and spoken to.

ProfCNJ

Matthew 23:33 ESV

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, [a] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!

Shall we then say, "Woe to you who SHUN others who have been outcast, look lowly of them, and treat them just like animals w/ no feelings. Woe to you who preach John 13:34, 35 yet completely ignore this principle when dealing with disfellowshipped ones. Woe to you who has shown more kindness to a pet animal than to a DF'd who need attention, love and care during the dark moments of their lives."

26

Today's wt study! Notice the faults?

by stuckinarut2 in

did we all notice the way in which this weeks wt study (how to maintain a positive viewpoint) was all about keeping the flock positive even if they feel they are not doing enough in 'service'?.

the irony is that the very reason they feel stressed or worthless is because of the pressures the org puts on them to perform!!!.

.

ProfCNJ

More of pedaling, then back-pedalling when the going gets tough. Sometimes, we are confused what the WT leadership really likes.

7

WT's 1914 vs. Jesus Christ's Message on Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:6

by ProfCNJ in

this striking thought just came into my mind.. our lord jesus christ said: "concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.

for just as the days of noah were, so the presence of the son of man will be.

" matthew 24: 36-37 (revised new world translation or rnwt).

ProfCNJ

Hi designs. Whether 1914 is Christ's return in an invisible manner or the outbreak of Armaggedon is beside the point I guess. Message of Jesus is very clear as the sky w/out clouds. Days or seasons of significance are reserved to the Father. It is He alone who knows it. Any attempts to second guess, speculate or otherwise preempt such determination is contrary to Christ's clear message. It is an exercise in futility.

7

WT's 1914 vs. Jesus Christ's Message on Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:6

by ProfCNJ in

this striking thought just came into my mind.. our lord jesus christ said: "concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.

for just as the days of noah were, so the presence of the son of man will be.

" matthew 24: 36-37 (revised new world translation or rnwt).

ProfCNJ

Crazyguy, I quite recall that study article. Still the point remains. It's not for anyone to draw conclusions about the date - not even Christ's apostles. Who are we then, including the Governing Body, to single out 1914?

Honestly, why fix a day when God or Jesus Christ has begun ruling in the last days? God is our Creator, our Ruler, from time indefinite to time indefinite (Psalms 90:2). We love and serve God not because of any reference to particular date or season. Our faithful obedience should never be a function of any specific date. Having said these things, would 1914 still matter?

45

WITNESSES CAN STOP REPORTING FIELD SERVICE!

by The Searcher in

the lawyers acting on behalf of the wtbts/g.b./'mother' during a paedophile case a couple of years ago, have stated on record that - .

a) "field ministry is not controlled or monitored by the elders, the congregation, or watchtower".

b) "an individual publisher's field ministry activity, including the time and manner it is carried out, is a personal matter between the publisher and his god.".

ProfCNJ

Good morning folks. After showing this to my wife, she asked if there's a possibility the document was edited. I told her it would be hard to alter the content, otherwise the message would not be consistent.

Nevertheless, would it be possible that the posted and scanned pdf file be edited to make it appear that the legal views of the lawyer counter what is really being practiced? Thanks for understanding my point.

7

WT's 1914 vs. Jesus Christ's Message on Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:6

by ProfCNJ in

this striking thought just came into my mind.. our lord jesus christ said: "concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father.

for just as the days of noah were, so the presence of the son of man will be.

" matthew 24: 36-37 (revised new world translation or rnwt).

ProfCNJ

This striking thought just came into my mind.

Our Lord Jesus Christ said: "Concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be." Matthew 24: 36-37 (Revised New World Translation or RNWT)

In Acts 1:6, 7: "So when they have assembled, they asked him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" He said to them: "It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed to his own jurisdiction."

The message is clear from both verses: Only the Father knows that day - the presence or coming of the Son of Man - whichever way you want to put it.

That being said, if the Governing Body or faithful slave has exactly identified 1914 as the start of Christ's ruling or his invisible ruling in heaven has begun, would that not be too presumptuous of them? Would that be beyond pure speculation - more than what the apostles had wished?

In effect, if the GB has identified this date which, according to Jesus Christ his Father only knows, then that makes the GB more knowledgeable than Jesus, the head of the congregation. In simple terms, if the Father only has the knowledge when that momentous day will come - whether Jesus' second coming or his presence - then who is the GB to determine it with sharp precision, much less teach it as an absolute truth?

45

BOE: Re: Midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer

by pixel in

you read it here first!.

to all congregations.

re: midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer .

ProfCNJ

Aren't we suppose to enjoy more, abundant spiritual food as we are living in the last days? If they are cancelling the CO's 2nd Service Talk, then would it mean that 2nd talk is not that important, much less a necessary spiritual provision?

Why only now after several years? There has to be at least a reasonable explanation for this new arrangement.

45

BOE: Re: Midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer

by pixel in

you read it here first!.

to all congregations.

re: midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer .

ProfCNJ

If the Cong. Book Study material can just be studied personally during the CO's visit, then why it can't be done in other occasions?

Why of all the 4 meetings, the CBS is the one being taken away? Is it because it is the least important among the meetings?

45

WITNESSES CAN STOP REPORTING FIELD SERVICE!

by The Searcher in

the lawyers acting on behalf of the wtbts/g.b./'mother' during a paedophile case a couple of years ago, have stated on record that - .

a) "field ministry is not controlled or monitored by the elders, the congregation, or watchtower".

b) "an individual publisher's field ministry activity, including the time and manner it is carried out, is a personal matter between the publisher and his god.".

ProfCNJ

I was speechless seeing this, shaking my head in disbelief, feeling frustrated and dismayed. There was injustice here.

Just this morning, I could not help myself but tell my wife about it, even to the extent of showing the PDF file itself so she could really see in fine print. She was also confused why the assertions of the lawyer were the exact opposite of what is taught in our kingdom hall.

Why would the WT leadership, a.k.a. GB, let this legal defense out? They would'nt even include the fact that the Society was requiring 70/80 hours of spiritual witnessing from Regular Pioneers. Instead, they just stated that average hours spent was 80 hours.

WT publications have been drumming up against "double standard". Now they teach something in the Congregation, they teach another thing inside a court of law. Now who's talking? Which has a heavier weight?