Posts by DJS

57

Are Evolution & Morality Mutually Exclusive?

by shadow in

there are a couple of long threads going right now about evolution & abortion.. .

if evolution were true, how could there be any basis for morality?.

DJS

Unstop,

You repeat what I hear from theists all of the time. There must be some official anti-atheist canned response and like mindless parrots you repeat the refrains over and over. I suggest you and the other theists conduct some actualy rsearch about how ethics evolved. And why do you give a care what consenting people do? Cheating and lying are not ethical behaviors, and they have nothing to do whatsoever with someone's sexual preferences or habits as long as no one is harmed and there is agreement and consensualtiy. As Cofty points out, it isn't rational to judge gays or lesbians as morally offensive; nor is it rational to judge what straights or bi's do, so long as it is agreed upon and consensual. Really, it isn't complicated.

There are MANY very good studies siggesting atheists or secular peoples and nations are much more ethical than theist and non-secular peoples and natioins. I have referenced several before on this forum. Below is another. I can do this all day long, but it won't matter because it does not appear that any of the theists commenting on this forum actually read anything scientific or think outside of their cherished beliefs. And beliefs are, evolutionarily speaking, right at the bottom of the ladder.

Journal of Religion & Society Volume 7 (2005)

ISSN 1522-5658

Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies

A First Look

Gregory S. Paul, Baltimore, Maryland

Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (2005) (Off Site PDF) by Gregory S. Paul

In this landmark study, Gregory S. Paul compares rates of religiosity and societal dysfunction between 18 democratic nations in the developed world in order to "test whether high rates of belief in and worship of a creator are necessary for high levels of social health." Paul finds that "in almost all regards the highly secular democracies consistently enjoy low rates of societal dysfunction," demonstrating that widespread religious belief does not improve societal health, and that moreover there is a positive correlation between a first-world country's level of religiosity (e.g., the degree of confidence that a traditional monotheistic God exists) and level of social dysfunction (e.g., homicide rates).

340

Fallacies about Faith

by tec in

jw
friends

peace to you!.

this thread is about false things (some) atheists think theists believe.

this is not a thread about false things that atheists think about theists.

DJS

Mrhhome,

WTF????? Once again a theist has spewed nonsense absent any facts. Below is data that I have posted 2 times previously, but you and other theists ignore it and similar data and simply spew idioacy. If by morals you mean your specific brand of right and wrong then all the atheists on this board will tell you to stuff it. I just did. Try thinking before you type. Cofty is much kinder than I.

there are real meaningful differences in how believers and non-believers behave.

Yes, I agree. the godless are much better people; much more moral. Really, I don't know why I bother.

The godless commit less crime, have longer marriages and are more highly educated than almost any other group in America.

According to Federal Bureau of Prisons data, the number of responding people in prison acknowledging they were Catholic was 39 percent; Protestant, 35 percent; Muslim, 7 percent; Jewish, 2 percent; and godless, 0.2 percent (20 percent did not respond).

Since the number of godless is estimated to be 10 percent of the general population, all things being equal you would expect their prison population to be 10 percent.

If, as many people assume, the godless do not lead moral lives, you would expect the number to be greater than 10 percent. The fact that the actual number is 50 times less than expected can lead to only one of two conclusions: either the godless commit less crime than the religious or they’re too smart to get caught very often.

According to a Barna Research Group report, fundamentalist Christians have the highest divorce rate, followed by Jews and Baptists. The godless are tied with Catholics and Lutherans for the lowest divorce rate. It seems that some groups that claim to follow the Bible most strictly are not putting their money where their mouths are. The godless who are thought to be without morals seem to take their vows more seriously.

According to a Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life Survey, the least-educated Americans are Jehovah’s Witnesses, followed by black Protestants and fundamentalist Christians. The most highly educated are reformed Jews, followed by Unitarian Universalists and the godless.

Some groups seem to like their flocks ignorant so that pastors’ interpretations of God’s edicts are not questioned. Other groups prize scholarship and achieve more in their lives here on Earth.

In fact, a review of worldwide studies found that criminality and religion go hand in hand. The countries with the most religious people have the highest crime rates, highest sexually transmitted diseases and the highest teen pregnancy rates.

This is also true in the United States. The more religious a state’s population, the higher the crime, STD and teen pregnancy rates. The report does say that the religious are happier than the secular but posits that the ostracism of the latter may be a major cause.

So what conclusion can be reached? It is obvious that you do not have to believe in a higher power in order to live a moral and successful life. Quite the opposite.

I won’t attempt to claim a correlation of religion with crime, infidelity and ignorance. However, it is total hypocrisy for those in such groups to claim that the godless are not and cannot be moral. Yet in a recent study atheists were believed to be no more trustworthy than rapists.

In spite of this easily obtained information, the groups with the highest crime rate, the poorest marriages and the lowest education continually strive to force their beliefs on the nonreligious. And the politicians pander to them. Why else would they pass laws to put religion in the schools and on courthouse facades? And then they wonder why the godless could possibly be upset.

24

Have I really left?

by KateWild in

it was a meeting night last night.

i didn't go nor did i stay on jwn instead.

nugget gave me her time.

DJS

Kate,

Doing almost ANYTHING is better than wasting your time with the mind numbingly boring tripe dished out at the JW meetings. I don't know your situation but the sooner you leave completely in body, mind and spirit the better you will be. Your body needs to leave first. The further you get from JW land and its oppressive control the more you will wonder how it ever had any control over you.

107

How do you feel about Common Core education?

by nonjwspouse in

especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?

was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.

how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.

DJS

file://localhost/Users/davidscates/Desktop/Teachers%20complain%20Common%20Cor.textClipping Teachers complain Common Core-linked lessons little more than scripts to read

By Perry ChiaramontePublished December 05, 2013FoxNews.com

Proponents say Common Core will help establish national education standards, but critics believe it will mean the end of local control of education. (AP)

Some of the biggest critics of new lesson plans aligned with the national Common Core standards are the people charged with teaching them.

A growing number of teachers say the national standards, adopted by some 45 states, have combined with pressure to "teach to the test" to take all individuality out of their craft. Some teachers told FoxNews.com the new education approach is turning their lessons into little more than data-dispensing sessions, and they fear their jobs are being marginalized.

“Now teachers aren’t as unique,” said Michael Warren, a public school history teacher in New Jersey. “It means anyone can do it. It’s like taking something done by humans and having it done by a machine.”

"It’s like taking something done by humans and having it done by a machine.”

- Michael Warren, New Jersey public school teacher

30

Strange things happening...

by DS211 in

jw
friends

some strange things are happening.. 1. wife started smoking.

2. wife agreed that the whole "clean up after armageddon while growing to perfection" thing is all speculation.. 3. as i was going to the meeting tonight (i had a part and kids are sick so she stayed in) she says "do you have to go?"..

4. when i got home she says " i wanna go out and party..... hmmmmmm.

DJS

It isn't likely that his wife is ready for the 'real world.' She should take it slowly, both for herself and the wrath of the Borg. But swinging, swapping, whatever you want to call it is a viable option for grown ups who are mature and can deal with it. But Yadda I'm not surprised you are judgmental about it; you seem to judge lots.

90

Why do so many think JW Religion is a Cult? (NO APOSTATES PLEASE)

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

my question is, why do so many think the watchtower bible tract society is a cult?

.

DJS

Brother Mike,

If you have been on this site for any length of time you should know that the JWs are a cult. They are not JUST a cult; they are a vile, hate filled nasty life and family destroying cult. I began to think that when I was a JW elder. For you to think you can control who responds shows me that you need to grow up. You are afraid of the truth or any objection raised that seriously presses your cherished beliefs. The JWs are a dangerous, mind control cult that I would tell everyone to avoid like the plague and if in it to leave as soon and as quietly as possible.

107

How do you feel about Common Core education?

by nonjwspouse in

especially if you are a teacher, how did you learn about it to begin with?

was there a common core rep doing a slick presentation?.

how do those of you with kids on school feel about, among others, things such as the deemphasis on the great works of literature ?.

DJS

Teaching to the test, as I have mentioned before on this forum, is IMHO the biggest problem. Students aren't likely to learn a subject well if teachers teach primarily to the items that will be on the standardized tests. I have been an adjunct prof at 2 colleges, and I can attest to the types of students leaving high school and entering college. I've seen what teaching to the test has done to students.

44

Richard Dawkins on religion and ethics

by DJS in

dawkins: religion no moral compass.

by jason miks.

a number of readers noting your skepticism over religions role in society ask whether an absence of religion would leave us without a moral compass?.

DJS

Dawkins: Religion no moral compass

By Jason Miks

GPS digital producer Jason Miks sits down with renowned evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins, author of the Selfish Gene and An Appetite for Wonder, to discuss readers’ questions on religion, its role in society and whether children can be described as “Christian.”

A number of readers noting your skepticism over religion’s role in society ask whether an absence of religion would leave us without a moral compass?

The very idea that we get a moral compass from religion is horrible. Not only should we not get our moral compass from religion, as a matter of fact we don’t. We shouldn’t, because if you actually look at the bible or the Koran, and get your moral compass from there, it’s horrible – stoning people to death, stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.

Now of course we don’t do that anymore, but the reason we don’t do it is that we pick out those verses of the bible that we like, and reject those verses we don’t like. What criteria do we use to pick out the good ones and reject the bad ones? Non-biblical criteria, non-religious criteria. The same criteria as guide any modern person in their moral compass that has nothing to do with religion.

So the moral compass of any person is very much a part of the century or even the decade in which they happen to live, regardless of their religion. So we live in the early 21 st century, and our moral compass in the early 21 st century is quite different from 100 years ago, or 200 years ago. We are now much less racist than they were, much less sexist than they were. We are much kinder than non-human animals than they were – all sorts of respects in which we are labeled with a moral compass. So something has changed, and it certainly has nothing to do with religion.

You’ve been travelling to the States from the U.K. for a number of years. Have you noticed much of a change in the place of religion in the two countries over that time?

Notoriously, the United States is the most religious of the Western advanced nations. It’s a bit mysterious why that is. In Britain, Christianity is dying. Islam, unfortunately, isn’t. In Western Europe generally, Christianity is dying. Even in America, the figures show that religious adherence is being steadily reduced, and the people who now record themselves as having no religious affiliation is something like 20 percent. Many people don’t recognize what a high figure it is, and so politicians here who feel they have to curry favor with religious lobbies should maybe take a look at those statistics and realize that not everyone in this country is religious.

You say it’s a bit of a mystery why America is so much more religious than other advanced countries. Do you have any thoughts on why it might be? Tied to that question of disposition, several readers also wondered if there is a genetic predisposition toward faith?

There probably is, but I don’t think that really explains why America is so different from Britain. The least implausible suggestion that I’ve heard is that Britain and Scandinavian countries, which are also very non-religious, have an established church, and that kind of makes religion boring. Whereas in America, there is constitutionally a bar against an established church, and that could be one reason why religion has become so popular – it has become big business, it has become free enterprise, rival churches vie with each other for congregations and especially tax free ties.

Some readers see you as very evangelical in your atheism. Do you feel it a duty, just as some Christians might to share the word of God, to spread an atheist point of view?

Duty is a funny word. But when you say evangelical, I like to think that I don’t shout or shriek, but employ a quiet, sober voice of reason. And reason is on our side.

You’ve talked about feeling uncomfortable with the impact of religion on children. In fact, one reader asked whether you would prefer to see no under-18s at church. What’s your take?

I certainly wouldn’t wish to prohibit parents influencing their children. However, for the rest of the world, to label a child a Catholic child simply because its parents are Catholic, seems to me to be a form of child abuse. The child is too young to know.

You can see the absurdity of talking about a Catholic child of four when you think what it would be like if we talked about an existentialist child of four, or a logical positivist of four. In other words, we wouldn’t accept the labeling of a child based the parents’ belief, so why do we accept it when it’s religion? Why does religion get a free pass when it comes to labeling children in this way?

79

The life differences between a good christian and good athiest

by EndofMysteries in

let's compare a christian who goes to a non judgemental / non guilt trip church which focuses really on the gospels, jesus teachings on being non judgemental, anything out of love there is no law against, and they contribute to society.

then an athiest who if you put side by side w/ the above christian, you would not know any difference unless you asked their beliefs.

both are good people, who are able to lead lives doing what they want, enjoying their life, and trying to help their neighbors too.

DJS

Dear Mrhhome,

Your comments regarding how atheists nad theists behave is not based on the actual data. It certainly is not based on my experiences, which accurately reflect the empirical data below. You say what you want to say, because you feel it and bellieve it, absent any facts or evidence. You are so losing this battle with Cofty; I would suggest a new strategy, R2, Let the Wookie Win. And in this instance, Cofty is the Wookie. I posted this information a few months ago. Deal with it.