Posts by DJS

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

DJS

James,

A pre-disposition is not a pre-destination. Believing is ultimately a choice, even for those predisposed towards religion. The science suggests a strong correlation between intelligence, education and a rational personality and secularism/atheism, just as the tendencies for those with a less rational personality, less intelligence and less education show a strong correlation towards religiosity.

Lots of empirical data support this, but a strong correlation is not a direct, cause and effect, correlation. With more education, including a more wordily, sophisticated experience, religion can wane even amongst those more typically disposed to it.

Nature/nurture is of course alive and well; no one disputes that, and Cofty's OP doesn't suggest that.

To me, the nature/nurture issue isn't what this OP is about; it is about how we evolved as a species to have a high disposition towards religiosity. That is interesting. Examining the difficulties of the species to survive is where it all starts. Maslow's hierarchy suggests that, when all of your time is spent looking for food and fending off threats (security), there isn't much time for more highly evolved pursuits. Throw in thousands of years of superstition and irrational fear of a god killing you on the spot for something you did, killing your child for something you did, making your crops fail or the rain to go away because of something you did, that you will be punished after death with fire, purgatory, eternal destruction or being re-incarnated as a worm for something you did, and Cofty's OP makes a lot more sense.

Our DNA looks like it does for a reason. And, when you consider that religion has, for thousands of years, discouraged research, rational analysis and academic achievement, dear god there is no wonder we bred a predisposition into our DNA for religiosity. For many religions and for thousands of years, only the hierarchy (hieroglyphics) and the religious elite were educated or even allowed to be educated.

Absent these external, social and cultural forces, our species should begin to evolve away from it. And it is, predictably. Thank god (I'm an atheist so this is simply a phrase to me).

Even today, one of the first things that the high control religions do when they take over is to kill the academics and the rational/secular, or attempt to silence them.

16

Really don't feel like a JW anymore

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

it has been a good 8 years away from my area, a good 10 years + since i was regularly at meetings.

a good 12 years since i was hesitantly active.. it is a slow process but it does happen.

i now feel no connection to the belief system beyond memories.

DJS

Snare,

Great seeing you again. Damn well spoken. My feelings and thoughts eggs-actly. I used the anger I had at the Dark Lords, my family for raising me around this cult - and finally myself for not waking up sooner - as rocket fuel to go back to school and live life to the full. The only time I looked back for 2 decades was to make slight adjustments in my rear view mirror. Like you have done. Rock on my friend. Rock on.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

DJS

Kate,

A bit extreme? I didn't invent this theory. Anyway, you are right; belief in god is not necessarily a bad path. Neither is belief in Santa, the Easter Bunny, Satan or the Tooth Fairy. Lots of things work.

However, my only objective for being here is to get people to think more rationally and objectively, requiring evidence before make a stand. Anyone doing so will almost certainly get farther away from theism and superstitions.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

DJS

Kate,

As I see it, it is a predictable evolutionary paradigm. For hundreds of thousands of years, the superstitious, the fraidy-cats and those with irrational fears were probably more likely to survive the real threats, such as the sabre tooth tigers and the velociraptors that were trying to eat them (OK, OK, I know saber tooth tigers and velociraptors did not co-exist with humans - geesh. Give a guy a bit of hyperbole for dramatic effect occasionally). Not to mention the no-seeums that were also trying to eat them.

As a result, their DNA was likely passed along at a higher level, the same DNA which would have pre-disposed them to religion, than the DNA of the rational brave hearts. I don't see Cofty as being mean.

70

Be nice to theists - they are victims of their genes

by cofty in

identical twin studies show there is a strong inheritable component to religiosity.

thomas bouchard studied identical and fraternal twins raised apart and tested them on religious attitudes.. the correlation for the former turned out to be 62% compared to just 2% for the latter.

his colleague.

DJS

Cofty,

Not surprising. Humans evolved tendencies toward religiosity, encoding it into our gene code apparently. Considering how very difficult it was to be a human for 100,000 years or more, this makes perfect sense.

We can reverse this process by becoming a more rational, evidenced based species. It will take a few generations but I believe we can evolve religiosity out of our genes and evolve a more rational code into it.

Considering the data Coded Logic provided the other day re: atheists, their children, etc., we are on our way. Live long and prosper.

25

Your first time on this forum. What were your thoughts and feelings?

by stuckinarut2 in

hey all,.

i was just thinking back to the first time i found this awesome forum...years before i eveni joined up and starting posting myself.. i was so encouraged and happy to see that i was not alone!

i was not the only one who was observing the org, and all of its aspects and thinking "seriously?

DJS

Since I was out of the Borg for 2 decades before joining this site or any other like it (other than a few months on an ex-JW site around the year 2000), my experience is vastly different. My initial reaction was that I didn't belong here. I was impressed that there were a lot of knowledgeable, intelligent members. I have been surprised by the obsession with all things Borg from those who have been out more than a few years and so many who still want to try to make sense out of prophecies and scriptures. I mean, really, hasn't that ship sailed?

I also get frustrated (not that you could EVER tell) by those who make definitive, expert-llike statements about things they know little about other than the best confirmationally biased article they can find. And then become entrenched. However, I've noticed that these tendencies have greatly diminished the past few months. Either the rationals are taking over or the irrationals have found a more fertile hunting ground. That includes the conspiracy theorists, who seem to have disappeared. Yay!! Oh, and the haters. They seem to have followed Justin Timberlake's directives: "go ahead be gone with it."

And WTF is it with the new self appointed governing body members who have a direct conduit to the girl girl in the sky and special knowledge of all scripture??? WTF??? I was totally blown away by these delusional clowns.

Either way, two thumbs up.

Otherwise, I believe this site serves a great purpose. Kudos to Simon, who has yet to give me the boot. And I've probably deserved it a few times. I'm working on being a kinder gentler DJS.

151

If you don't believe in God where do you get the strength to cope?

by Miss.Fit in

jw
friends

i know there are some here that are going through some tough times.

some of you do not believe in god.

some are not sure.. i was told recently by a friend to pray to god for help and he would comfort me.. my first impulse is to pray.

DJS

MissFit,

I'm glad you bumped this. And I'm happy your journey is getting easier. The more you embrace an evidentiary based belief and knowledge system and the more distance and time you put between you and all things Borg the happier you will be. And the more you will look back and wonder why you ever believed the things you believed. It's only scary the first few steps.

43

Dear typer-ers, you're doing it wrong!

by Simon in

there are many things wrong with the world, many injustices and crimes committed.

what if we could stop one of them?

wouldn't it make the world a slightly better place?

DJS

The italics did it on its own. I didn't format it that way. Copying and pasting from Word moved a lot of things around. I caught a lot of it but missed the italics. But thanks for pointing that out. I will watch auto-formatting from now on.

43

Dear typer-ers, you're doing it wrong!

by Simon in

there are many things wrong with the world, many injustices and crimes committed.

what if we could stop one of them?

wouldn't it make the world a slightly better place?

DJS

While we are being grammar/formatting nerds, can someone please say something about the use of apostrophes? They are not used for plural words except In special cases, such as when forming a plural of a word that is not normally a noun, some writers add an apostrophe for clarity.

Example: Here are some do's and don'ts.

OR for lower case plurals: Minding one's p's and q's. Typically an apostrophe is not used for years/decades, such as the 1970s (NOT the 1970's), although if you shorten it (contraction), you can write the '70s.

They are primarily used to show possession and for contractions.

OK, I"m through. For now.

28

A Mind at War

by cappytan in

right now, i feel like my mind is at war with itself.. on the one side is reason, logic.. on the other is tradition, hope and fear.. reason and logic are challenging life-long beliefs.

they are telling me, "is this any more believable than the story of the lord of the rings?".

certain doctrines of my belief system are crumbling.. my mind still wants to hold on to the belief in a creator, his son jesus and the bible.

DJS

Cappytan,

A lot of us have been on your journey. I've called it my Pink Floyd sojourn - Another Brick in the Wall. I didn't worry about it as you are, however. It was an excellent, rational journey to me. I took my time, removing and evaluating each JW/Christian/Theist brick at a time. If I found it lacking, and I did, I threw it away.

After a few years all that was left was the foundation - a belief in god. I remember referring to myself to my closest friends as an agnostic, then an atheistic leaning agnostic, then an atheist. No drama. No angst. No fears.

Good luck on your journey.