reporter

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Posts by reporter

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  17

  It wasn't just one lie about Iraq's WMD...it was 36 lies.

  by reporter in

  1. social
  2. current
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  reporter
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  45

  Sept 1 2003 WT: Is There Only One 'True Church'?

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the latest wt magazine starts out by quoting a catholic cardinal:

  just as there is one christ, so there exists a single body of christ, a single bride of christ: 'a single catholic and apostolic church.

  ........although pope john paul ii insisted that the document dominus iesus contained "no arrogance towards, or disrespect for other religions", protestant church leaders reacted strongly to it.........in june 2001, one minister said that the document was the work of "a powerful faction in the roman catholic church....scared silly by the spirit of openness introduced by vatican ii".........it appears that the....catholic curia was disturbed by what has been called religious relativism........[which is] the emergence of a pluralist theology----saying basically that one religion is as good as another...... what then, is the right view?

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  reporter

  Am I reading this wrong or what?

  Because as in the 1st century, there can be only one true church.

  If there can only be one "true church" and the WT adamantly denies themselves as being "a church", then it's pretty obvious that they CAN'T be that "true church".

  That's interesting...I remember a time where the JWs didn't even consider themselves a religion, but rather, a way of life. Now, they've used the term "church" which used to be frowned upon...
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  24

  WTS conspires to shield confessed mass-murderer and felon from authorities!

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my questions are (besides the obvious): who is going to take the rap eventually for these heretofore unsolved florida murders?

  whose innocent lives may yet rot in jail while this now baptized perpetrator goes free to share in field service and attend meetings?

  whose victims' families are hoping in vain that this baptized felon gets caught while he is being shielded from "secular" prosecution?

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  reporter

  Sorry reporter - my eyesight hasn't been so good as of late - didn't see that sentence - so my theory holds correct.

  This still does not invalidate the clergy confidentiality situation however.

  But it is sad that they gave no recommendation to strongly encourage this man to turn himself in & give "Ceasers things to Ceaser" - I can't believe this.

  And that they are more worried about him smoking dope after being baptized - unbelievable.

  My sincerest apologies Reporter.

  More worried about smoking dope...precisely! Don't worry about the other stuff...I retract my indignation! I was wondering what was going on
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  24

  When Jw say :"It was your personal choice"

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the avg jw when confronted with pass issues such as not going to college, setting up retirement plans while you are 23 for when you get 65, seeking a better paying job will often try to hide behind

  "it was a personal decision".

  while in one context that is true, there is one problem.

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  reporter

  Consider these 3 issue below – based on the wt publicaitons such things as :

  1. going to college,

  2.setting up retirement for when you reach 65 while you are 23yrs old

  3 seeking a better paying job instead of reducing your work hours to pioneer

  *** Kingdom Ministry June 2001 for week starting July 2nd 2001 ***
  To see scan, click here.

  15 min: Youths--Be Wise in Choosing Your Career. This is the first of three Service Meeting parts that will review Scriptural principles relates to supplemental education. Some Christian youths are pursuing secular careers through higher education, which is having a negative impact on their spirituality. This part is a discussion between two parents and their teenage son or daughter. The youth is at a point where a serious decision needs to be made about future goals. Although some may want to pursue financial advantages, prestige, or comforts of life, the family examine the Bible to see what it recommends. (See Young People Ask, pages 174-5; The Watchtower, August 15, 1997, page 21, and September 1, 1999, pages 19-21, paragraphs 1-3 and 5-6.) The youth agrees that it is wise to pursue a course in life that will serve him or her well in achieving theocratic goals to advance Kingdom interests.

  Uh huh. I didn't know the Bible was entitled "The Watchtower" or "Young People Ask".

  *** Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15 ***

  If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the 'last days' in 1914, Jesus foretold: 'This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur.' Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way towards its finish, if not actually gone! This is why parents who base their lives on God's prophetic Word find it much more practical to direct their young ones into trades that do not require such long periods of additional schooling... True, those who do not understand where we are in the stream of time from God's viewpoint will call this impractical. But which is really practical: preparing yourself for a position in this world that soon will pass away? or working toward surviving this system's end and enjoying eternal life in God's righteous new order?

  Face the fact? All the evidence? In a few years? Sounds more than mere "speculation" to me! What about you?
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  10

  Are people at bethel allowed to stay as long as they want ??? time limit ??

  by run dont walk in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  but in general aren't most people only there a few years, is there a certain time you are allowed to be there then have to move on ???

  and move on where ???.

  does anyone know how the system works ???.

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  reporter

  so one "privilege" breeds another, doesn't it? And then you get sucked into the inner circle vortex, as it were, and it gets more difficult to leave...
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  24

  WTS conspires to shield confessed mass-murderer and felon from authorities!

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my questions are (besides the obvious): who is going to take the rap eventually for these heretofore unsolved florida murders?

  whose innocent lives may yet rot in jail while this now baptized perpetrator goes free to share in field service and attend meetings?

  whose victims' families are hoping in vain that this baptized felon gets caught while he is being shielded from "secular" prosecution?

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  reporter

  Assuming that this guy was a "fugitive" (which the letter does not indicate)

  What? Yes it does. Quote from letter: "Since he apparenently is a fugitive from the law, he obviously would not qualify for any extra privileges of service in the congregation." Not only does the WTS and he himself admit that he is a criminal and fugitive, this letter does imply that he would get basic privileges of service (albeit not "extra" privileges like pioneer, MS or elder, or perhaps certain hall assignments) as a joe baptized publisher.

  Are you sure this guy had not already done his time?It doesn't clarify whether this guy did time for his crimes - just that Florida wasn't "aware" (which could just mean he did his time in some other state/country).

  What? Are you serious? Red herring. If he is not "apparently a fugitive", that indicates that he never served time anywhere for anything...and why could he be considered a subject of interest in Florida to be hush about if he paid his "debt to society" elsewhere? Unless, of course, he was a fugitive, then he would be arrested by Florida authorities and extradited to the state or country of interest. This would be called co-operation between jurisdictions to bring fugitives to justice.

  there is still the matter of clergy confidentiality. This would be a hard decision for any clergy person to make.

  Not under these circumstances! The WTS, in conspiracy with the local elders, are knowingly harboring a fugitive! And encouraging the silence of the local B of E! "Clergy confidentiality" should never be used as a shield for protecting perpetrators -- whether they be mass-murderers, child molestors, or whomever -- not receiving justice for heinous crimes. If that is true, the law ought to be changed. That's outrageous.

  But, what makes this bothersome is there is no encouragement to have this brother "atone" for his sins of murder and to give "Ceaser his due".

  I agree with you on this, at least. I'll quote from the actual letter again... "What he does about paying his debt to society is largely up to him and his conscience..." So right there, that indicates he hasn't paid any debt yet...and the WTS, incredibly, is leaving this "up to him" as a conscience matter!

  Can anybody else here see the significance of what I'm ranting about here? Hawkaw? Outlaw? JT? Anybody? Taking blood transfusions or even "smoking marijuana" (as mentioned in that letter too), is grounds for judicial committees and disfellowshipment, including disagreeing with the Society's dogmas (and other straining of gnats which Ray Franz said should be left up to a Christian's matter of conscience) are harped on by the WTS, but they leave OUT the rafter in their own eye by leaving him the OPTION of confessing mass-murder and felonies as a conscience matter!!!!! And not DFing him in the process?

  PEOPLE!!! COME ON now!!!
• 
  163

  Moral absolutes

  by Aztec in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i keep saying i am going to start a thread on this topic so here goes.... what, if anything, is always morally wrong?

  murder, rape, incest?

  how much do you think your belief, or lack thereof, in a higher power influences your opinion?.

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  reporter

  Moral, measuring up to what standards? The U.S. constitution? Common Law? Islamic Law? The WTS (which is a moving target...)? The Bill of Rights? U.N. Declarations? The Bible? Which version or translation?

  For example, the Immigration and Nationality Act provides for exclusions of certain foreigners on the grounds of convictions of crimes involving "moral turpitude." Who defines that?

  (2) Criminal and related grounds.-
  (A) Conviction of certain crimes.-
  (i) In general.-Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-
  

  (I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or
  

  (II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible.
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  24

  WTS conspires to shield confessed mass-murderer and felon from authorities!

  by reporter in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my questions are (besides the obvious): who is going to take the rap eventually for these heretofore unsolved florida murders?

  whose innocent lives may yet rot in jail while this now baptized perpetrator goes free to share in field service and attend meetings?

  whose victims' families are hoping in vain that this baptized felon gets caught while he is being shielded from "secular" prosecution?

  1. 
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  reporter

  My questions are (besides the obvious): who is going to take the rap eventually for these heretofore unsolved Florida murders?

  Whose innocent lives may yet rot in jail while this now baptized perpetrator goes free to share in field service and attend meetings?

  Whose victims' families are hoping in vain that this baptized felon gets caught while he is being shielded from "secular" prosecution?

  "Since he is apparently a fugitive from the law..." is a priceless quote from the letter. No shit, Sherlock!!!

  "If the elders inadvertently reveal his past wrongdoing, undoubtedly it will result in major repercussions to him and his wife." Jesus Bleeding Christ. He should have thought about those potential consequences before he went on his killing and crime spree!
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  31

  If you ever Wondered why it is so HARD to Sue WT for being DFed- read this

  by JT in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in re: your status in the xxxx congregation of jehovah's witnesses, xxxxxxxxx.

  e. when a judicial committee handling a case of wrongdoing reaches the conclusion that the unrepentant person would be disfellowshipped, then the committee will speak with the person and let the individual know of their decision to disfellowship him or her from the congregation.

  the supreme court in serbian eastern orthodox diocese specifically held that the first amendment prohibits civil court inquiry into matters of internal church discipline.

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  reporter

  One thing i wonder, JT, how can they say u DA yourself, if u do not actually write that letter?

  From the "Pay Attention" book:

  If an individual takes a course contrary to the neutral
  position of the Christian congregation, the congregation
  is compelled to view him as one who has chosen to
  separate from us. (Isa. 2:4;John 15:17-19)

  A brief announcement should be made to notify the
  congregation that this individual, by his chosen course, no
  longer desires to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses. (The
  Society should be notified using the S-77 and S-79 forms. )

  Therefore, disassociation can be IMPLIED from action/non-action and the disassociation decision can be IMPUTED to you with you having no say in the matter.
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  50

  MY JC - I AM SO SICK

  by rebel in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i have never tried to hurt anyone in my life.

  i have always tried to love others from my own childhood upbringing.. i have been treated like a traitor.

  everything i said was twisted.

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  reporter

  thanks jgnat for linking me, I missed this thread. I was busy this past week.

  It sounds like your JC meeting was par for the course, and not unlike how many here predicted it would go.

  Whenever you gather enough strength to tell us what happened in detail, I'd be interested to know.

  For now, I'm just kind of fading and ducking and hoping I don't bump into them. I have no idea how I would present myself even if I did have the gumption of someday facing this starchamber kangaroo court of "theocratic" "justice." (terms used loosely, of course...)