Posts by ExpandedMind

6

Mike & Alice Krammer (Minnesota & New Z...

by ExpandedMind in

just wondering if anyone from minnesota or new zealand knew of a mike and alice krammer.

they were pioneers in minnesota and possibly got into the circuit work while there and then heard they moved to where the need was greater in new zealand.

expandedmind

ExpandedMind

Thank you both for getting back to me. I really appreciate it! <smile!>

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

6

Mike & Alice Krammer (Minnesota & New Z...

by ExpandedMind in

just wondering if anyone from minnesota or new zealand knew of a mike and alice krammer.

they were pioneers in minnesota and possibly got into the circuit work while there and then heard they moved to where the need was greater in new zealand.

expandedmind

Just wondering if anyone from Minnesota or New Zealand knew of a Mike and Alice Krammer. They were pioneers in Minnesota and possibly got into the Circuit work while there and then heard they moved to where the need was greater in New Zealand.

Thanks...

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

13

Is the Bible Really the inspired word of God?

by Shirlgirl in

i ask this question simply to see what others think....... when my daugther was 16, she came to me late one night after we had come from a meeting and asked me...."mom, what if the witnesses have it all wrong?

there are only 66 books that we use, what if we are worshipping the wrong idea?

" she then walked out of the room and went to bed...... god, did that open a can of worms.....because i actually started thinking on that.. however, i took it a step further....what if religion on whole had it all wrong....so i began to do research, and what i found was amazing to me..... 2timothy 3:16 began to 'ring' in my mind....."all scripture is inspired of god...." funny, didn't say just 66 books were inspired, but all scripture....then i began to break it down....what was scripture?

ExpandedMind

Hello!

I have also struggled with this issue. I grew up "believing" the Bible (as a Lutheran). Then became a JW and had more "reasons" to believe. But upon questioning the authority of the WTS (over a period of time) I realized (as did most of us) that if I have the truth, then I shouldn't fear to do research and question things. Of course, this lead to my disassociating.

Shortly thereafter I was in close touch with a friend who was going to seminary (an Evangelical Christian) and he told me something to the effect that if you didn't have doubts about the Bible going in, you'd have doubts "raised" when you took some of the courses he did. Apparently he was learning things in school that most of us do not have easy access to or are not aware of.

This piqued my curiousity. I now wondered, how do I know that the Bible is the Word of God? What gave it that authority? I did read a few books on the origin of the Bible, one written by FF Bruce (a Bible scholar) and although that one was (obviously) not written as a critique of the Bible, it was filled with information that made me realize the "human origin" of the Bible (although most Christians would believe that the men used to determine the canon of the Bible were somehow "directed" by God). Actually because of other things going on in my life at the time, those questions were then put to the side... for many years.

Finally in the late 1990's these resurfaced. One of the first books I read critiquing the Bible was a book by Dennis McKinsey called "Encyclopedia of Biblical Errancy". I "sensed" that the scholarship of this book was not "top notch", but it did open my eyes to numerous issues that I hadn't realized before. I am certain there are Christians who will try and refute what he says and maybe some of his arguments are "lame", but I couldn't deny that something was "wrong" with the picture that I had earlier believed about the Bible.

I also believe it is important to be open hearted and open minded with regards to "spiritual" things. But we must have been "given" our minds for a reason and if that means asking the hard questions and expecting answers, then I can't believe that that is "wrong" (even if that leads us in a direction we didn't think of). Seeking "truth" (not necessarily "the" Truth!) is not an easy road, but forums such as this can be helpful.

I've wanted to be able to thoroughly discuss this issue with others and haven't had much of an opportunity. Anyone interested in an ongoing "discussion"?

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

9

Disfellowshipped? I got a question

by sableindian in

if a person is disfellowshipped, can they talk to anyone in the congregation?

and if not, what scripture says they (the disfellowshipped person) can not.

and, has anyone ever heard that an elder or someone else suggest a disfellowshipped person wear a letter "d" (the scarlett letter) when they go to public functions like an assembly?

ExpandedMind

Hi!

Were you from the Zion IL congregation? I knew a couple who used to go there (I'm pretty sure it was Zion). Their names were Duane & Cherry Brauer (sp?).

Did you know them, by chance? Did you know anyone else from other North / North Suburbs IL congregations?

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

14

Disfellowshipped? I got a question

by sableindian in

if a person is disfellowshipped, can they talk to anyone in the congregation?

and if not, what scripture says they (the disfellowshipped person) can not.

and, has anyone ever heard that an elder or someone else suggest a disfellowshipped person wear a letter "d" (the scarlett letter) when they go to public functions like an assembly?

ExpandedMind

Hi!

Were you from the Zion IL congregation? I knew a couple who used to go there (I'm pretty sure it was Zion). Their names were Duane & Cherry Brauer (sp?).

Did you know them, by chance? Did you know anyone else from other North / North Suburbs IL congregations?

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

14

Anyone Ever Reinstated After "Apostacy"?

by ExpandedMind in

jw
friends

good morning!

i was just wondering if anyone on this site has been reinstated as a jw after having been disfellowhipped or disassociated from the watchtower society for "apostasy"?

if so, would you mind telling us what it was like for you to go through the "process" of reinstatement after having "seen the light" <smile!> about the organization?

ExpandedMind

Thank you for all your replies.

I was in touch with a sweet sister who left the organization due to "conscience", but was so torn that when approached by a brother about returning (and from what she said he was a very kind and loving person), she decided to go back. But after a short time she found it difficult once again and did leave again.

I think that sites like Mind Shadows can be very helpful for those who are still associated and are struggling with whether to leave or not. Those that don't leave, yet find that they cannot conscientiously support all the WT's teachings, need support to do so. For me, although it took several years for things to sink in enough that I felt I had the strength to depart, my departure was pretty quick. I think if I had had a support systems "within" the organization (in this case via the Internet), I might not have felt so alone in making this decision.

Have a good evening!

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

18

The Holy Spirit IS a person?

by Brummie in

what say yea?

active force or person ?

question only aimed at those who still believe in something.

ExpandedMind

After leaving the JWs, I associated with Evangelical Christians. I did quite a bit of study on the Trinity, including time spent with another exJW and a "pastor". Even after that "study", I could not "grasp" that the Holy Spirit was a "person", yet I did come to believe that the HS was God. I based this on two scriptures, one stating that Jesus cast out demons by the "Holy Spirit" and the other parallel scripture stating that it was by the "finger of God". Just as my finger is "me" so God's finger is "God".

But through my studies I came to realize that there is no uniform teaching throughout the New Testament that definitively tells us who/what God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit is. The New Testament is a "work in progress" and relates many and varied views on these subjects and many more. That is why Christians have so many different interpretations of these issues. The only way that something "uniform" can be taught on many subjects is to come up with a "teaching" that one believes is true and if there are other passages of scripture that contradict that view, one needs to come up with a way to "harmonize" them. The variety of teachings on God, Jesus, Hell (or Hellfire), the "soul", etc that are found in the Bible proved to me that the Bible writers (whoever they were) were just sincere (or seemingly sincere) people that wrote about their faith, but never intended their writings to be used as a Rule-Book (at least not in the form it is in today). Once that mentality grew (that of trying to identify what is orthodox and expecting or even demanding that all others adhere to those teachings), then came the calling of others "heretics" or "apostates" (sound familiar?), the Crusades and the shunning as practiced by the JWs. I am not, of course, stating that all Christians have that mentality, there are many open minded and open hearted individuals. But unfortunately, this mentality of having "the Truth" is characteristic of Christianity as well as other religions were "fundamentalism" in it's many forms, flourishes.

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

14

Anyone Ever Reinstated After "Apostacy"?

by ExpandedMind in

jw
friends

good morning!

i was just wondering if anyone on this site has been reinstated as a jw after having been disfellowhipped or disassociated from the watchtower society for "apostasy"?

if so, would you mind telling us what it was like for you to go through the "process" of reinstatement after having "seen the light" <smile!> about the organization?

ExpandedMind

Good Morning!

I was just wondering if anyone on this site has been reinstated as a JW after having been disfellowhipped or disassociated from the Watchtower Society for "apostasy"?

If so, would you mind telling us what it was like for you to go through the "process" of reinstatement after having "seen the light" <smile!> about the Organization?

Did you try to return because you sincerely felt like you were in "error" or to just to have association again with family and friends?

Does anyone know of a site of "ex-exJWs"?

Have a good day!

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

32

Green Bay A-fest July 2003 Hotel Info....

by scootergirl in

jw
friends

as many of you may now, ms. xenawarrior is hosting an apostafest for this upcoming summer (july 19).

there sounds like there may be many of us coming in from out of town (including me, ms. joannadandy and eyegirl .

anyone interested in staying at the holiday inn in green bay?

ExpandedMind

Please keep us posted on the particulars, dates, location, etc. If I can I'd like to try and come...

Thanks!

25

Greg Stafford --- Update

by ExpandedMind in

jw
friends

good morning!

i found this post on channel c and thought i'd share it with those of you who are interested.

happy new year to all of you!

ExpandedMind

Good Morning!

I found this post on Channel C and thought I'd share it with those of you who are interested.

Happy New Year to all of you!

ExpandedMind

"The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Posted by GregStafford on Thu - Jan 2 - 01:01am:

In Reply to: Stafford's status with Watchtower Org? posted by RichS45 on Wed - Jan 1 - 2:33pm:

Hello, Rich:

First off, if you are the same Rich who emailed me recently, I promise to write back soon. I try to get to my emails in the order that I receive them and I'm a bit backed up right now. (As I'm sure most of us are!)

I am unaware of any official response from the brothers at Bethel, but some of my former JW apologist friends have not received my book with open arms. It's interesting, as I've told several other people, some of my Witness friends who I thought would be open-minded and at least give the material a fair and balanced reading did not, while many Witnesses who I thought would be closed to some of the material were surprisingly open about it, even expressing similar views to me in private! (Just goes to show you how easily we can misread people!)

However, one person in particular, Hal Flemings, has emailed many Witnesses and given them negative and slanted information about what I wrote. From the emails I have been given, it's as if Hal never even read the entire book. I have offered an open discussion of the issues with Flemings, and we exchanged a couple of emails, but he has been silent for several months since I last wrote to him about issues concerning our organization as a whole and the blood policy in particular. But just last week I found out that Flemings will not be inviting me or one other brother to an annual Witness gathering where scholarly material is exchanged, and he is now organizing this coming year's meeting around topics having to do with my book. I find it very disturbing that he will not respond to me directly, yet he will organize private discussions about the same topics when I am not there to offer a reply or balance out the discussion. I am very disappointed in the Flemings-type people in our organization, people who could be forces for positive change but who instead choose to defend the traditions of the organization in what appears to me to be an act of self-preservation. Nevertheless, I am hopeful that others in the organization will stand up for what's right when the circumstances are right.

There are other events that have recently taken place that only a few others know about and that I am not prepared to make public, but as events unfold we'll see what transpires and if there is something meaningful to relate I will be sure to share it with those who are interested. Having said that, I have not been disfellowshipped nor have I disassociated myself from the organization.

I have reason to believe that at one time Jehovah did in fact use this organization to highlight important truths in his Word, such as his name and identity, but that somewhere along the line the organization was taken over by men who do not have as their primary goal the revealing of Bible truth in a Christ-like manner. I believe that, as has happened with so many other well-intentioned Christian groups (even many first century followers of Christ), imperfection and sin have been allowed to grow unchecked and ultimately they have infected the organization so that it has run far off course. If it is Jehovah's will to remove those in the organization who are allowing false teachings and heavy-handed governance of his people to flourish then I will be on the look for the changes. In the meantime I will continue speaking out against that which tarnishes God's name and Word and let matters run their course. If Jehovah establishes some other group that can carry on the work of proclaiming his name and kingdom apart from false teachings and destructive policies, then I will look for it. Otherwise I, like so many others of the past and present, will remain content with the truths of God's Word as he has preserved them, sharing them with whoever wants to hear them.

In this light, I plan on moving forward with my studies and I will continue to present what I hope will be considered balanced and accurate research on important topics relevant to the Watchtower Society and Bible studies in general. I will be releasing a book devoted to the history, translation and meaning of John 8:58 later this year, and there is already an outline being worked up for a book dedicated to the Watchtower's blood policy problem. This second book could very well be ready by the end of this year or the beginning of 2004.

Best regards,
Greg Stafford