i continue to be stunned by posters reporting on the convention, lamenting the convention, complaining about going in serve-us and meetings, and yet continuing to participate in these activities.. a simple question.
how long have you done these things, fully knowing it is absolute bullshit?.
i couldn't handle it for more than six months before i basically outed myself.
I sort of had 2 stages, the stage when I no longer believed it and the stage when I no longer wanted to be a part of it at all. I know these closely overlap for many people here but they didn't for me so much.
1 year from the first stage and 3 months from the second.
i had my first real birthday party yesterday.
call me an irredeemable pagan, but i was massively excited about this, the whole thing was very special, i got a little emotional and i think my friends must have found it a little strange but it was just nice to be creature worshipped.
when i was a child my parents always used to tell people i didn't miss out by not celebrating my birthday but i did miss out.
Thanks again for the birthday wishes.
Having holidays taken away from us really is a tragedy.
hey guys, there's another thing i wanted to share with you.
i know this topic has been discussed over and over again, but it's just so fun to complain about it.
we're going to the district convention this weekend.
My mum is travelling up to Twickenham in a few weeks. I don't envy her.
Mine too Quelly, along with my sister, my sister wants me to go with her, stuff that!
'but surely you want to see the drama?'
'No, I really, really don't.'
in barbara anderson's research for the proclaimers book she was tasked with identifying the faithful & discreet slave throughout history.
the idea was the watchtower could identify a line of kingdom proclaimers from the days of the apostles.
she was not able to do this with the established criteria, that the individual had to adhere to the basic doctrinal beliefs seperating jw's from "false religion".. it seems that governing body would now agree.
I think the change was an attempt to take authority away from the anointed as a group and give it to the GB alone, a theological backing for what already happens in practice. They linked this to the present 1919 doctrine because it was the easiest way to do it, I suspect dropping Russell was more of an unintended consequence then a plan.
But really, who knows how these guys work?
For starters, claiming there was a GB in 1919 is a lie on their part.
here is the link: http://seattledelegates.org/.
i would guess this is the wave of the future.
a secondary channel of business revenue for the wts - compensation for recommending restaurants, tours, etc.
What I think is supposed to be the space needle in the Seattle logo looks more like a cross to me. Funny.
there were many great comments on the " theist/suffering" thread, but terry's really caught my eye.
its the simplest way to describe what believers do.
we simply give the "god" of the bible a free pass.
Hi Maranatha, I'm a christian. This website isn't really geared towards anyone, except ex and exiting JWs who take many different paths. You're welcome to stay and engage us in conversation, you won't be kicked off for defending your beliefs. (though maybe for taking threads off topic, like this one...)
Welcome to the board.
a discussion of this talk on friday morning deserves its own thread.
as i said elsewhere, it was a remarkable one.
the speaker was manfred vencebi (google him - he's a bethel bigwig) and some of his remarks are real gems.
Thanks Ann. I'd have thought JWs would be better off claiming Jesus' is working to make the world a better place but I guess it doesn't match their apocalyptic inclinations.
I'll take Satan's rule for starters:
Billions of followers (including those following by default rather than choice).
Assumingly the default followers will also die at Armageddon?
Satan's world is 'wiser' (Lk. 16:8) and far more sophisticated scientifically and technologically. But many so-called improvements are superficial, a veneer covering the rottenness underneath.
Could they provide any examples? Do JWs reject the 'many so-called improvements' that just cover 'rottenness underneath' or do they also benefit from these improvements?
Improvements in health and nutrition ; some common ailments of the past now eradicated. "But does that mean man has finally found a cure for illness and sickness in general? No." - numerous health disorders today that were unheard of 100 years ago with no cure. "Is that progress?"
I like the way they ask this question 'Is that progress?' As if 'no' is supposed to be the obvious answer. Of course it's progress! Is the progress we've made eradicating leprosy, for example, meaningless to a ruler who was said to be moved with pity when he came across people with leprosy? Besides which, where are all these new health disorders coming from anyway?
Abortion far safer now but "no abortion is safe for an unborn child" - 44 million abortions globally in a recent year. Progress?
Yes. Unless you think women's lives (including many current mothers) are less important than the lives of fetuses.
Success and accomplishments in field of malnutrition and hunger - eliminated in many parts of the world. "But have they eradicated malnutrition? No. ... Is the world getting better?"
Yes, the world is getting better, somebody didn't do their research, malnutrition and hunger are on the decline.
Spiritual health. "Has the world drawn closer to Jehovah over the last 100 years? Yes, people live longer today, but what is the point of having a longer lifespan and better health when, in most cases, people use those extra years and that extra energy to draw away from God and from our Creator? People use the extra health to offend God with their conduct. So, 100 years ago, people may have lived 40, 50, 60 years; now they can reach to their 80s and 90s and now they have 20, 30 or 40 years more to offend Jehovah, to engage in conduct that makes him sad. Is that progress?"
Surely this should be seen as more time to convert! And where does grace (undeserved kindness) come into this? Is Jehovah an angry god who gets increasingly offended at your constant bad deeds or is he more like the prodigal's father, longing to embrace you no matter how long you've been away from home? I think I could guess which version this JW believes in.
Most people spiritually starving (Isa. 65:13 - 'my own servants will eat while you go hungry' etc.) and Bible-illiterate. "What is the advantage of having plenty to eat when you don't even know the most elementary things about the Creator and his purposes?
Because JWs know the elementary things about the Creator and his purposes. JWs are so 'bible-literate' that they don't even realise the Creator's purposes, as understood by them, doesn't even exist in the bible.
And more bibles are in circulation and in more languages then ever before.
Advances in technology. Some point to it as proof of things getting better in the world, but is it a good way to measure progress? Technology is used in warfare to kill and maim; used for entertainment that offends Jehovah, e.g. games, videos, websites featuring graphic sexual immorality, gruesome violence. "Technology is not a good way to measure progress in this world. The world is not getting better."
If only our technology was advanced enough to create a time machine. Then we could send this brother back into the 1800s for a real experiment on whether the world was better or not!
Changes in civil rights, racial equality. Now people are more accepting, more open-minded, more tolerant. Some changes are for the better BUT "adultery - accepted; pre-marital sex - widely accepted." "Today, homosexual behavior is widely accepted. It seems that the goal is, someday, to make homosexuality widely obligatory." (Isa 5:20,21 - 'woe to those saying good is bad, bad is good' etc.)
Only an old white man could see the acceptance of homosexuality as an evil equal to the good of racial equality. This is a very American-centric view as well, many Western nations (and some others) are secularising and as such have developed a more liberal view of sexual ethics, but conservative christendom is making inroads in many countries in a way that JWs would consider closer to 'Jehovah's standards'
Satan has plunged the world into darkness, enmity with God. "Satan's world has gone from bad to worse."
You thought the dark ages were bad, just wait till you see the 21st Century!
i had my first real birthday party yesterday.
call me an irredeemable pagan, but i was massively excited about this, the whole thing was very special, i got a little emotional and i think my friends must have found it a little strange but it was just nice to be creature worshipped.
when i was a child my parents always used to tell people i didn't miss out by not celebrating my birthday but i did miss out.
Thanks. :)
there were many great comments on the " theist/suffering" thread, but terry's really caught my eye.
its the simplest way to describe what believers do.
we simply give the "god" of the bible a free pass.
Yes, god has a lot of questions to answer, many of the psalmists would agree with that. Job got some answers but they seemed a bit of a cop out.
Can you imagine a JW standing up to pray after a crisis 'my god my god why have you forsaken us?' Wonder how that would go down.
hey everyone,.
thanks qcf and nugget for starting threads.
thanks cofty for wondering where i was.
Good to have you back Sam! Hope you enjoy your holiday.
