Posts by Laika

258

i wish more churches would preach truth like this

by unstopableravens in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cncehcvrvgq.

Laika

To give unstoppable a helping hand as well, he's a Calvinist so the idea of Jesus 'knocking on the door of your heart' is, I suspect, what he takes issue with. (in Calvinist theology Jesus doesn't ask, he just breaks down the door)

258

i wish more churches would preach truth like this

by unstopableravens in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cncehcvrvgq.

Laika

I think the modern evangelical view of the atonement, that of the Father beating up on the son so he can avoid doing it to his believers, is not a particularly central one to the NT, and was pretty alien to the early church for at least the first 1000 years, and still is in the East.

The picture in the NT tends to be (though not exclusively) about sharing alongside Jesus in his suffering so that we can share in his glory, as opposed to avoiding the suffering.

This is a good thread on the subject:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/175312/1/Redemption-Reductions

15

Today's WT study

by piztjw in

so as i looked at the material i was struck by a few thoughts about this article.. par.

6 glossed over the idea that we can pray for ourselves, or our needs.

9-11 on one hand they say jesus did not harshly criticize peter or the apostles for falling asleep instead of praying continually, and on the other hand make veiled threats if we should feel tired out by life.

Laika

Does the WT phrase about 'acting in harmony with your prayers' not just mean answering them yourself?

45

Does anyone here believe that things are worse than they were in the past?

by Trismegistus in

jw
friends

i still hear this crop up every once in a while, so i figured that i'd open it up to a wide audience.. things are looking pretty good to me..

Laika

Certainly worse in some ways, but on the whole, I wouldn't want to have lived in any other time period.

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Laika

Has anybody tried the universal sovereignty issue defence yet?

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Laika

Laika - Good to see you.

You too Cofty. Actually I was impressed you got as far with Pastor John as you did, I would have ended the discussion with the suggestion you were never a real christian.

I thought about a few angles to respond to this thread, but you're right, they're all vacuous, I agree with you. Sorry to disappoint.

20

Question about 9/11 and the WT.

by Hecce in

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some friends familiar with wt gossip have told me that the decision to move out of ny was in part accelerated by the tragic events of 9/11.. my take on this is that decision to relocate was made a long time before, however they counter that a move was planned but not the total detachment that is occurring.. i wonder if anyone here has an opinion or information on this.. thanks.

Laika

That same friend told me that the WT lost a golden PR opportunity by not opening their doors to the relief effort.

Really? I seem to remember an Awake that was all about how amazing the WT were for opening their doors to the relief effort?

Did I make that up?

2596

The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty in

yesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.

we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.

they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.

Laika

Excellent discussion from what I've read so far, I'm sorry that I haven't kept up with it, I'll try to read back all the way through.

I found the different perspective in two of your responses interesting:

1. God does good things, Satan does bad things.

My response - So Satan caused the tsunami and god did nothing. That makes god look weak as well as wicked.

...

5. Free will. Here he manged to link it to 9/11?

My response - I am deliberately not talking about human actions. I am only interested in "natural evil". If god had prevented the tsunami no free will would have been involved.

If the pastor's suggestion in theodicy 1 was correct (satan caused the tsunami) then god would still have been intervening in free will (satan's free will) if he stopped it. As such you could have used the same argument for theodicy 5 as for theodicy 1, right? God's failure to stop 9/11 makes 'god look weak as well as wicked'? I was curious if there was a reason you avoided that?

I think 'open theism' is the best attempt I've seen at dealing with the problem of evil. I'm not sure if that perspective has been raised on here yet (I feel bad engaging on a thread I haven't fully read )

5