Posts by StrongHaiku

18

Undue influence - other areas in life

by DavidG in

jw
friends

after gradually waking up to ttatt im finding myself with this question:.

since it is so easy to be indoctrinated with jw beliefs, are there other areas in my life where i'm also under influance of other false beliefs?

from the culture i've grown up with, school etc?.

StrongHaiku

Those questions you posed are the same I posed myself when I left many years ago. When I left, I asked myself "Since I believed so strongly that these teachings were true, and now I find they are not, what else am I wrong about?" The answer to that proved to be that I was wrong about MANY things. And, I am still finding things I was wrong about. But I now have better tools/skills and more freedom to learn more, think for myself, and correct ideas and beliefs. And, maybe the one "good" thing about having had the JW experience is that you will, hopefully, be more critical and skeptical in the future.

When you leave the Organization, you will probably realize two key things:

1. That many of the things they taught you were not correct and...

2. That we (JWs) were not given good tools/skills to think about how to determine what is correct - i.e. critical thinking, logic, and evidence. What we got from the Organization is "faith" couched in an air of pseudo-intellectualism. The version of "critical thinking, logic, and evidence" the Organization claims to use (and we were taught) is nothing of the sort.

I think many JWs leave understanding item 1, but many do not fully appreciate how badly they are lacking in item 2. You will need to continue to equip yourself with facts, but more importantly, you will need to equip yourself with the thinking tools/skills to understand how to evaluate facts.

Enjoy your voyage of discovery. Keep feeding your brain.

On a side note, there is a really good/fun book called "Being Wrong" by Kathryn Schulz which has an engaging explanation on how our minds perceive being right and wrong. She has a TED talk you might find interesting - http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong?language=en

19

So I overheard a discussion that my son and wife were having about creation yesterday

by My Name is of No Consequence in

so i am getting ready for bed yesterday night and i overhear my teenage son and wife talking about how the evidence of creation far outweighs the evidence of evolution.

i heard my son say that evolution has so many holes and how could something happen from nothing.

i wanted to open the door and ask them both how the creator happened from nothing just to see what they would say..

StrongHaiku

I don't think you will need luck because you are doing the most important thing - i.e. asking questions. That's always a good place to start. I was a JW and I believed that God created everything, evolution was incorrect, all science is suspect, bad things happen because Satan and sin, etc. When you are inside, all outside information is made suspect and unreliable. It wasn't until many decades later of studying topics and sources outside the WTBTS material that you start to realize that (a) the Society often presents their arguments incorrectly/deceptively then (b) proceeds to answer their own carefully crafted questions to make it fit the answer.

For example, the Society constantly proposes that "if evolution is not true, that proves...God." and will also throw in the Big Bang Theory into the mix at times. This is a logical fallacy and it confuses the topics. For one, evolution (change over time), is a fact. We then have The Theory of Evolution as the current and best scientific explanation of the evidence (e.g. fossils, genetics). The Theory of Evolution does not attempt to explain how life originated. That area of study is abiogenesis. Abiogenesis deals with if/how non-organic material could organize (over time and processes) into to complex organic life. Lots of great experiments in that area show promise. Lastly, we have the Big Bang Theory which is the current and best scientific explanation to how the universe began from a high-density state then expanded. Lots and lots of progress being made to get closer and closer to the first instant of the universe.

The reason for pointing this out is that the WTBTS confuses these (and other) topics to make arguments that fit a solution they want to fit - i.e. God did it. They make a further mistake to imply that disproving any/all of the previous (and other) scientific theories means - "God did it". This is not correct as the premise that "God did it" would require its own body of evidence irrespective of the validity of a particular scientific theory.

One thing I would recommend is do some research on some of the above topics - i.e. The Theory of Evolution, abiogenesis, and The Big Bang Theory using sources outside the WTBTS. Here is a good article on evolution you might enjoy - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/. There is a wealth of information out there that do not include God into the equation so you can learn the topic objectively. And, perhaps, you can invite your son on a learning adventure when you feel ready. Maybe you could couch it as "learning to counter the arguments we get at the door". And, "encouraging him to do his own research", as you stated, is an excellent idea.

As for "why is the world the way it is?", that is an important question. However, as an exercise, you might want to simplify the question by removing a supernatural/force to the equation to start and only add it in when it is necessary. Once you do that a lot of things begin to make sense. And, you may find over time that you don't need to add the supernatural into the equation.

For what is worth, "Good Luck".

76

By “evolution,” we mean “macroevolution”—apes turning into humans, for example.

by FadingTruth in

august 2015 awake .

quote in title taken from article footnote.. anyone have information on who gene hwang and yan-der hsuuw in the article are?.

why do they repeatedly state that apes turned to humans when that's not what evolutionists teach at all?.

StrongHaiku

The more I study science, the more I am convinced of the WTBTS's lack of even the most basic intellectual integrity and colossal lack of science literacy.

What qualifies a theory as a scientific theory? According to the Encyclopedia of Scientific Principles, Laws, and Theories, a scientific theory, such as Albert Einstein’s theory of gravity, must

Be observable
Be reproducible by controlled experiments
Make accurate predictions

Is evolution a Scientific Theory? Yes. Further, I would be willing to bet that even their own source above (the Encyclopedia of Scientific Principles, Laws, and Theories) would cover it as such.

There is a very good article from Scientific American that can help answer the above points - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

The WTBTS have done so much eisegesis on the Bible over the years that they seem to feel free to cut/paste other sources as well to suit their needs. Shameless.

6

"Macroevolution" - where did the term come from? (Calling Coftey, et. al.)

by cappytan in

is macroevolution a word made up by evolutionary scientists and darwinists, or did creationists come up with that word?.

because, from my understanding, there is no such thing as macroevolution.

an ape didn't give birth to a human, for instance.

StrongHaiku

One thing to note is that "Micro" and "Macro" evolution is one of those terms that Creationists (including JWs) have hijacked from their original correct scientific context to an incorrect use to make their ideas sound legitimate and "sciency". Kinda like Depak Chopra uses the word "quantum" to explain some fuzzy and unproven idea. Or the way some people use the word "Theory".

Its good to remember that evolution makes no distinction between the two. They both rely on the same established mechanisms of evolutionary change. The biggest difference between the two is probably time.

13

Anointed, Crazy, Overzealous, or Good Acting?

by Tenacious in

i don't believe for a second that the wts can be god's chosen organization, if he does have an earthly one, especially one with such a hypocritical past.

but the question begs; why are there people professing having the heavenly calling usually found in the wts?.

does anyone know or have heard of other denominations having the genuine heavenly calling?.

StrongHaiku

Good post... Here is one perspective...

My Mother started partaking about 33 years ago. My Mother is a very creative, intelligent, and emotional person. She puts her whole heart and mind into everything she does. And, most importantly, she needs to feel "special". I think being anointed is sometimes a "personality" type. If she was in a different religion she would probably speak in tongues, handle snakes, or some other thing. In addition, once she started partaking a number of other people started partaking for some time. Kind of like "anointed fever". It was absolutely bizarre to watch.

On a side note, at the time she started partaking, it was almost considered a sign of insanity (possibly apostasy) that someone so young could partake. We were treated pretty badly by others in the KH. Ironically, she is now older than almost all of the GB members that partake.

3

The Truth vs Theories

by freemindfade in

i had a thought today, would so many people sign the witness version of the billion year contract if instead of calling everything (even the religion) "the truth", they were more like science and called it "theories".

it's funny because "the truth" changes all the time, where as really the truth does not.

in science you say something is a theory it can change and become more accurate (new light), .

StrongHaiku

Definitely a good thread topic. I would offer this...

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment. Such fact-supported theories are not "guesses" but reliable accounts of the real world."

I would not want to dignify what the WTBS provides by calling it a "theory" (in the same par as scientific theories). I think, what they often propose is a "guess" (or maybe a "hypothesis" at best). From my perspective, they have yet to provide the evidence to graduate their "guesses" into "theories". If anything, what they have provided often negates their own hypothesis. Just a thought...

53

Spirituality

by Jonathan Drake in

if you are a current practitioner of some religious faith i would appreciate it if you abstained from this thread entirely.

im curious if anyone has had what could be discribed as a spiritual experience.

i'm currently reading sam harris book waking up and it's very good so far.

StrongHaiku

Abraham Maslow originally described the concept of a "peak experience" as an "...overwhelming sense of pleasure, euphoria or joy, a deep sense of wonder or awe, feeling in harmony or at one with the universe, altered percepts of time and/or space, a deep feeling of love, greater awareness of beauty or appreciation, and a sense that it would be difficult or impossible to describe adequately in words."

Many years ago, when I was a JW serving the Organization, I would have described my moments of the above as "spirituality".

Now, all I need to do to feel the same way is look through a telescope at Jupiter, kiss my girlfriend, or watch "Superman: The Movie". I feel basically the same thing today but I no longer use the word "spiritual". Maybe simply "awesome" says it all without needing to add any supernatural baggage. My feelings didn't change, but I now attribute those feelings to how Nature works and how wonderfully (and flawed) my brain is wired.

31

Catch phrases used by the GB

by stuckinarut2 in

i read a comment on another thread that made me think of this topic.. how many catchphrases are used by the gb and organisation in an attempt to control or gain power or prevent questioning?

feel free to list as many as you can think of!.

i'll start:.

StrongHaiku

The word "Evidently..." followed by a statement that had no evidence to support it.

“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means" The Princess Bride

70

If They Stopped Shunning Tomorrow?

by cofty in

imagine that the cult decided to stop shunning family members on the proviso that the dfd person was not actively trying to attack the cult.. (please don't debate whether or not this is likely - it's hypothetical).

how would you respond to your family?.

personally i think i would be less than cooperative.

StrongHaiku

I tend to change my mind on this from day to day on what I would do if my family was to stop shunning me. Some days I think I would be so happy that I would forget all of the past like some reversed "Prodigal Son" scenario were the joy of the moment melts away all of the anger and pain. Some days I think that I would be prudent and wise to put them through the same rigorous and protracted re-instantement procedure that the JW put the DF'ed members through to make sure they will not do it again.

Over the weekend, my uncle who is a JW, passed away. I only found out about it last night and not directly from my family. I am not invited to the funeral. And, my attempts to reach out to convey condolences and help have been rebuffed.

So, today, I am struggling on which way I would go if the rules changed.

44

August 2015 WT - Let's Review the BS Children

by InjusticeSystem in

found these gems in this edition:.

- keep in expectation!- prepare now for life in the new worldthe passing of time should not cause us to lose hope thatkingdom blessings will be realized.

there are solid reasonsto keep our scriptural expectations alive.

StrongHaiku

"How could we prepare for that change?"

How about asking all JWs to become vegetarians now. And, for extra points maybe stop using technology, driving cars, hunting animals (I knew a number of brothers who did), learn how to build houses (at the very least how to use a shovel), survival training, etc. I mean, if you really want to get ready for the New System there is a long list of practical things the JWs could do. No?

I found the article to be a very cynical and transparent for getting the R&F to work harder and sacrifice more by making a game of make believe out of it. Sad...