Posts by adamah

32

Office Building larger than Noah's Ark

by VM44 in

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this three story office building has more square footage than noah's ark did.. do you think it is big enough to hold all the "kinds" of land animals along with enough food for them to last a year?.

could you fit all the animals from a small zoo in it, and expect them to live in it for a year?.

adamah

RayPublisher said:

The flood story was either a local phenon or was allegorical. Regardless, it does not diminish the lesson(s) that can be learned by sincere readers of the Bible IMO.

And what would that allegory be, and a metaphor of WHAT, exactly?

You're presumably a "sincere reader of the Bible", so lay your allegory on us, please.

Before that though, consider my reading of the account, and how it interacts with the creation account earlier in Genesis:

God makes man (AND plants AND animals) and declares all of it as "very good" in Genesis 1:29. Then in Genesis 6, God cannot ignore the rampant evil and mayhem any longer, so expresses regretting MAKING man (and plants and animals) and decides to wipe the slate clean. Not very prescient (ability to see the future), if God cannot even anticipate His OWN reactions to a decision He made BEFORE mankind was even around to pin the blame on?

After the Flood, God decides it MIGHT be a good idea to roll out His fix to the problem of 'evil in men's hearts', with the new "no manslaughter" rule (found in Genesis 9:5; note this was EVEN AFTER serving as Divine judge in the case of "YHWH vs Cain", seeing bloodshed first-hand). To enforce the new-fangled law, God delegates authority to Noah to rule over his fellow men by enforcing the first criminal justice system (Genesis 9:6), paralleling how God gave Adam dominion over the animals. God was giving Noah the authority to establish rule amongst men.

I wrote an article on the Noah's Flood account, and discuss how the WT abuses the story to justify their "no blood transfusion" policy, by scripture-twisting and misinterpreting Genesis 9:5-6, turning a BLESSING into an OBLIGATION.

Do yourself a favor and reflect on this stuff, as it's a waste of time to remain captive to a concept, whether it's a lie coming from the JWs or some other flavor of a same lie.

Adam

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

adamah

Lost said:

I must admit, this is also something I personally struggle with.

2,000 yrs.

It's a long time.

Especially when you consider it's 2,000 yrs since a series of questionable hear-say accounts which were recorded at least 30 yrs AFTER the accounts were said to occur, in a region that was, even by ancient standards, notorious for how uneducated and superstitious the people were.

Reza Aslan is the lastest author (a historian) who's written a book on the topic, and he describes at least 10 others who performed miracles at the same time as Jesus, all offering a messianic hope. It was a trend, something of a fad; the others ended up just like Jesus (dead), but his story "stuck" and made history by becoming a full-fledged religion.

Heck, National Geographic even made a TV episode a few years ago on the rivals of Jesus, where a few are even mentioned in the NT:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/rivals-of-jesus/

Gopher said-

But the same deity lets the prayers of innocent suffering ones go unanswered for decade after decade, century after century.

Nah, those kids are being punished by God for dissing Noah (talking smack about Noah behind his back, telling his brothers): remember "the curse of Ham"?

God apparently has the memory of an elephant for insults and slights!

Adam

33

The Truth about Eve...... is there more to the story, and has it been hidden by religion ?

by *lost* in

i get the feeling that there is more to the eve story than we are aware of.. if we look at the patriachal religions, they are very 'anti-woman'.

is this based on their corruption of the bible story.. .

yes, i think there is more to the story of eve, and our the 'origins' than we think.. father god, mother goddess.. .

adamah

Lost said-

Adamah - this topic is not about Pandora or Greek mythology, sorry, but please stick to the topic, otherwise it will go off on all tangents.

The topic is clearly-stated: "Is there more to the story that is being hidden by religion"?

My comment apparently is PAINFULLY TOO on-topic for some, but whether you or anyone else WANTS to consider the available evidence from respected Hebrew Biblical scholars (such as John Van Seters, in Prologue to Genesis) who've forgotten more than you or I can HOPE to know is another matter, indeed....

Adam

24

researching polytheism of the Jews

by DeWandelaar in

i was researching the history of the jews and in wikipedia it is said that in origin the jews were polytheists by default and became monotheist in a later period of time.

i was not aware of this (neither do many others) and am therefore putting some of my findings here:.

first of all the obvious things.

adamah

SBF-

An interesting book I came across a few years ago argued that Elohim and Jehovah were separate deities and that Jehovah was the junior God.

Yeah, the Gnostics (a loosely-assembled group of beliefs within Early Christianity) accepted that concept, where Hellenized Jews apparently syncretized (blended) the Greek concept of a demiurge God, a minor deity who was appointed by a more-powerful deity to manage the day-to-day tasks of the Universe. The centuries prior to Jesus' appearance featured a LOT of melding of outside influences from surrounding pagan beliefs, which the OT spends much time polemicizing against!

It's interesting to realize that Christianity is exactly the kind of schismatic threat to Judaism that the writers of OT were actually trying to prevent, commanding Jews to kill their apostates! Hence ALL Christians are actually proto-apostates from Judaism, where Saul/Paul switched teams even as it was occurring. Only the names change, but the song remains the same....

Adam

33

The Truth about Eve...... is there more to the story, and has it been hidden by religion ?

by *lost* in

i get the feeling that there is more to the eve story than we are aware of.. if we look at the patriachal religions, they are very 'anti-woman'.

is this based on their corruption of the bible story.. .

yes, i think there is more to the story of eve, and our the 'origins' than we think.. father god, mother goddess.. .

adamah

lost said:

When Adam named Eve

Adam's naming of Eve is his only recorded response to Gods punishment.

It was after the banishment, after they sinned and during this banishment that Adam named Eve.

Saying that she would be the Mother of those who live in clans or civilisations.

A comparison to the story of Pandora is helpful, since the story of Adam and Eve seems to be based on the same basic form used in far-older versions of the same Greek myth. Eve being the mother of ALL mankind is likely a minor tweak of Pandora ("ALL gifts", perhaps an intentionally-ironic name, since she released more than "gifts", but also disease, pain, suffering, etc).

Eve also gets the blame for introducing evil into the World, after being seduced by her "desire" for the wisdom offered by the forbidden fruit (where part of her punishment was for her desire to be placed below Adam's desires for her. She wanted to obtain wisdom of a God, but her punishment was to place her BELOW Adam (who also gained wisdom by eating the fruit) in the chain of command, hence the misogyny of Paul's "wives, be in submission", who quoted the example of Eve to justify it).

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora

In Classical Greek mythology dating to Hesiod, Pandora was the first human woman created by the deities, specifically by Hephaestus and Athena on the instructions of Zeus. [ 4 ] [ 5 ] As Hesiod related the Pandora myth, each of the deities helped create her by giving her unique gifts. Zeus ordered Hephaestus to mold her out of earth as part of the punishment of humanity for Prometheus' theft of the secret of fire, and all them joined in offering her "seductive gifts."

According to the Hesiodic myth, however, instead of giving bountiful gifts, Pandora opened a jar (pithos), in modern accounts sometimes mistranslated as "Pandora's box" (see below), releasing all the evils of humanity—although the particular evils, aside from plagues and diseases, are not specified in detail by Hesiod—leaving only Hope inside once she had closed it again. [ 6 ] She opened the jar out of simple curiosity and not as a malicious act. [ 7 ]

The myth of Pandora is ancient, including ones lost. Even the surviving Hesiodic Pandora myth appears in several distinct Greek versions that have been interpreted in many ways. In all surviving literary versions, however, the myth is a kind of theodicy, addressing the question of why there is evil in the world. In the seventh century BC, Hesiod, both in his Theogony (briefly, without naming Pandora outright, line 570) and in Works and Days, gives the earliest literary version of the surviving Pandora story.

It's extremely likely that the Hebraic version in Genesis is inspired by the Greek story, being a slightly-modified version of the same tale. Remember that under the influence of the Persian Empire, Hebrew ambassadors who were released from Babylonian captivity regularly rubbed shoulders with the ambassadors sent from Greece. That's the basis of the Emperial Authorization Theory, where Jews were required to assemble the Torah into a written form that would allow them to gain limited powers of self-rule under the Persian Empire (who demanded they have a written book of law).

Adam

24

researching polytheism of the Jews

by DeWandelaar in

i was researching the history of the jews and in wikipedia it is said that in origin the jews were polytheists by default and became monotheist in a later period of time.

i was not aware of this (neither do many others) and am therefore putting some of my findings here:.

first of all the obvious things.

adamah

Yup, 'Elohim' ("the Divine Counsel") is PLURAL, where 'Eloah' is the singular form referring to the Big Kahuna, Hisself. Eloah likely is where the Islamic name for God is derived: 'Allah'). Funny how that works out, huh? It's good to point out that little fact when a Christian indignantly declares Islam's Allah to be Satan, where Allah is just an altered name for their God, and is just as fake. So they're actually committing blasphemy, calling Eloah Satan!

The Divine Counsel is seen in the opening of the Book of Job, where Satan (a title meaning 'the accuser') was serving on Team Jehovah, the one who tests humans to ascertain their loyalty to God. Notice how the relationship is depicted as Satan being in submission to the Will of God, following his orders and asking for permission.

The shift from pantheism (spirits/minor Gods) to montheism is actually more of a marketing trick, since the minor deities (Gods) were simply downgraded to angels. Name change, rather than a shift to "true" monotheism.

Here's a helpful site which explains the roots of Elohim:

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

Adam

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

adamah

Russ Cline quoted-

cancers have disappeared

I remember reading a blog of an oncologist (a cancer specialist) who said the average person develops a cancerous cell three times a day, but the immune system quickly detects the aberrent cell(s) and contains/eliminates them, all without the person being aware that technically, they "had" cancer.

Of course, as this article shows, even full-blown diagnosed cancer will go into spontaneous remission.

BTW, God is not answering his phone when he's called by scientists requesting His assistance to help develop treatments; it's only kicking over to voice mail, and despite leaving MANY messages, He's not returning their calls.

Adam

39

Why are the moms so attached to religion?

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

please don't take this the wrong way, i would love it for women to comment on this thread because i just can't understand something!!.

here's the pattern i see:.

mostly guys in here.. if the guys are married, their wives usually stay a jw, or it takes 3 times as much time to convince a woman to leave than a man.. if the guys have a jw father, the father is open-minded and can be more easily persuaded to leave.

adamah

jgnat said-

Then would it follow that many women are modern-day misogynists, since there are more women than men attending church?

That's precisely my point: why do women TOLERATE and EVEN TEACH their own sons and daughters a "God-given" morality that perpetuates misogyny, an attitude and practice that only harms them?

Add it to the lengthy list of the self-inflicted HARM that results from being a JW, joining the list of shunning, a practice that results in psychological and emotional damage only to THEMSELVES, when they're expected to shun their own children or be shunned themselves.

Remember that not all religious come from the Judeo-Christian ethic. There are Muslims (who hang on to the concept of women as property), Buddhists, and Sikhs.

Sure, many religions are NOT based on the Abrahamic Judeo-Christian tradition.

However, misogyny is NOT exclusive to the OT/NT, but is found in other "Holy" books, as well; these others often perpetuate the idea of a belief in possessing all the answers, forcing followers to adopt some unquestionable belief under the banner of claiming it contains ancient "wisdom".

And that's precisely why clinging to ANY morality by setting it into stone and declaring it as unchangable is very foolish, since morality needs to be allowed to grow, to change over time.

Adam

30

STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH! Possible shift in position from the WTBTS on the global vs local deluge.

by marmot in

a buddy of mine recently sent me a link to the official wtbts facebook page and i thought what the hey, let's see what they have to say about the question that made me fade in the first place.

much to my surprise, they answered!

you may already be aware that the general position of jehovah's witnesses is briefly stated here:.

adamah

Phizzy said-

There simply cannot have been a Global flood during the last 40,000 years.

Edited to add :Sorry, after posting I realised my mistake, Noah must have travelled to the Sothern Hemisphere, picked some Kings Lomatia, and collected some Koalas, some Duck-billed Platypus, and then travelled to South America and picked up the unique wildlife from there, as well as the flightless birds of New Zealand, and after the Global Flood subsided, taken them all back again. And don't forget his massive on board aquarium for all the fresh water fish.

Yeah, I find it's pretty much a waste of breath to approach the Flood on the basis of it's scientific impossibility, since any point you raise is only going to be met with a "God Dun It!" defense, where He took care of those messy (unrecorded) little details since it's depicted to be a miracle, anyway.

I find it's better to start from the illogical and contradictory behavior God displays in the Genesis Flood account itself, and once they're mentally "softened up" by all the inconsistencies in the account (eg God regret, etc), THEN get into the scientific evidence. The believers defenses are down at that point, and they may be ASKING YOU about what science has to say about a global Food.

Adamah

39

Why are the moms so attached to religion?

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

please don't take this the wrong way, i would love it for women to comment on this thread because i just can't understand something!!.

here's the pattern i see:.

mostly guys in here.. if the guys are married, their wives usually stay a jw, or it takes 3 times as much time to convince a woman to leave than a man.. if the guys have a jw father, the father is open-minded and can be more easily persuaded to leave.

adamah

jgnat said-

I also believe that religions take care of a need in society for community, tradition, and belonging. Otherwise, they would not be so pervasive.

Not only that, from the looks of comments contained in this thread, religions seemingly serve as a magnet for modern-day misogynists, since the Bible contains passages written BY misogynists to rationalize and perpetuate their personal misogyny; hence partly why misogyny continues to the present day.

Perhaps we should study Mein Kampf, too, since it also contains a few grains of truth in it, too, and it even contains proscriptions for practices that the Bible endorses (eg genocide, misoyny, slavery, etc)?

Why people cling to hurtful, morally-bankrupt writings in this modern day and age is just mind-boggling, and how woman can overlook the OBVIOUS depictions and modern-day "fruits" of its misogyny is just as amazing. You'd think women would be FIRST ONES (as well as blacks, with a greater awareness of the evils of slavery) to see the repugnant nature of the ideas found in the Bible.

<sigh....>

Adam