CNA, this girl who invited you: she sounds like she's having her doubts, too, and is it possible she's maybe fishing around and toying with the idea of leaving, herself? Just saying that it may be good not to jeopardize her standing in the cong, if she's not willing to walk soon, as well.
Posts by adamah
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22YAY!!! My first time being shunned and it was humorous to say the least
by confusedandalone ina good friend of mine invited me to a party after her meeting on sunday.
i told her i was not going any longer and she doesn't care.
she also let us know that no other witnesses would be there.
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22
YAY!!! My first time being shunned and it was humorous to say the least
by confusedandalone ina good friend of mine invited me to a party after her meeting on sunday.
i told her i was not going any longer and she doesn't care.
she also let us know that no other witnesses would be there.
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adamah
It's a really interesting insight and perspective that we gain from the perspective of the outsiders, "the shunned", since you can see the World from the perspective of outside of the social elements of control you once used to lived under, and let control you like a puppet on a string. Once you see it, it takes an act of suppression to not notice it again (although it IS possible to ignore it, and end up in another cult-like environment, if you're not careful).
Adam
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18
Did Jesus ever shunned anyone?
by UBM101 inhttp://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/258772/1/shocking-talk-from-2013-district-convention-urges-parents-to-shun-disfellowshipped-children.
i am sick to my stomach after watching this video by cedars.
that pharisee stephen bell said we should follow the example of jesus but did jesus ever shun anyone in the bible?.
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adamah
To the contrary: Jesus REFUSED to cast the first stone against the adulteress in John 8, and since shunning was a MUCH LATER "man-made" (non-Torah-based) rabbinical tradition designed to circumvent secular restrictions against imposing capital punishment of their fellow Jews (and thus a continuation of the very-same Pharasaical traditions Jesus often condemned while alive), it would seem Jesus couldn't be SHOUTING the message any louder that shunning is an extra-biblical tradition of men.
I wrote an article on this on my blog:
http://awgue.weebly.com/would-jesus-shun.html
The passage in Matthew 10 indlcates how the newly-converted Christians would be shunned and betrayed by their Jewish Torah-observant family members, NOT pointing out how the Christians would shun THEIR Jewish members.
That's a typical WTBTS intentional misreading of the words of Jesus, though, since they don't actually CARE what Jesus said anyway; Jesus is bad for the WTBTS business.
Adam
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9
Does Jehovah and Santa Claus share some personality traits?
by LoisLane looking for Superman in.
if you are very, very good... you are promised a big reward.. if you are bad, nope, you don't get a thing.. and they both work mysteriously and invisibly.. what are your thoughts?.
just lois ( and i am giving myself some flowers.... .
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adamah
Dwight Schrute as evil Santa, AKA Belsnickel from Southwestern German folklore (and in Pennslyvania Dutch country, hence why Dwight would know of Belsnickel, with the office set in Scranton), who spreads fear (not joy) during X-Mas:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQv9sKLtluE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belsnickel
Now THAT'S a bit more like OT Jehovah, the smiting God of war.
Adam
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Is (a possible) revised NWT prompted by lapsing copyright?
by slimboyfat inin the united states i gather that copyright lasts for the lifetime of the author plus 70 years.
if copyright only lasts for 70 years from publication of anonymous works, then copyright for the nwt of the christian greek scriptures would be due to run out in a few years.
watchtower leaders probably don't like the idea of others being able to publish hard copies or circulate the nwt in ebook format.
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adamah
You are not taking into consideration the overlapping lifetime of the author.
Obviously, the law is referring to a lifetime when those who are later born will overlap with the life of the original author.
Wait a minute: I thought Jehovah was the author ("all scripture is God-breathed"...), and since God is eternal and timeless without a beginning or ending, how would that even apply?
Adam
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19
if you had a miraculous, unexplained escape from death..
by nonjwspouse inplus you were not baptised but grew up in a jw family, stopped attending or studying for 30 years then attempted to go back for a couple years.
the attempt had serious negative effects on your marriage, and personality, so you decided to stop all studies etc, for the time being ( over a year).
but with the full intention to return later and be baptised.. this miraculous, unexplained escape from death was discovered to have occured during this time of complete detachment from studies etc.. what would you feel explained this escape?
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adamah
Hi nonjwspouse,
Adam, You hit the nail on the ehead. I have no idea if he is the first ever to have survived this.
If we're talking about 'idiopathic spontaneous bilateral carotid artery dissection', then no, he's not the first to experience it and/or survive it (about 20% of all cases are bilateral). A perfunctory review of Medscape shows that it's not THAT fatal, and dissections are not always associated with strokes (which ARE survivable, esp if caught in time, where the old saying is that 'time lost is brain lost'). Sure, it sounds like he dodged a MAJOR bullet, and there's alot of testing that needs to be done to find the cause (eg ruling out connective tissue disorders like Ehler Dahlos, etc), but if he's on bloodthinners and aware of the need to go to the ER ASAP if he notes ANY changes in symptoms, then he's on the right track.
In fact the drs doidn't really know the cause beforehand in younger stroke paitents, until the the the advent of the MRA contrast is making it much more available. If detected and treated and sucessfully with blood thinners, anticlotting and survival with treatment is quite good. Though the recurrance rate is still around 10% so we will be alert to sympyoms and careful with no neck jerkng actions. ( I didn't mean to say no known cauae for spontantious causes, there are speculative caues, but nothing solid)
Sometimes we HAVE to chalk it up to "idiopathic" (unknown cause), since the lab tests ordered and biopsies taken sometimes come back as 'negative' when they shouldn't (sometimes it's because of a 'false negative', where the biopsy just didn't catch a diseased section of the vessel which would reveal the true cause). In many cases, though, it's not important to ascertain WHY, unless having the proper diagnosis effects the management of the condition. That's part of the problem of being a non-omniscient being: sometimes we DON'T have all the answers.
The drs never once said "god done it" they said they have no scientific or medical answer as to why he didn't stroke out. His is an exceptional case so his case is now studied by the team of specialty neurologists at Mayo, and he may be called upon for follow ups.
Well that's good, but the fact is that not having the answer doesn't mean that an answer isn't out there, eg many patients DO have collateral circulation where the carotids can be completely occluded (blocked) and the patient still manages to get blood to the brain by alternative means (eg Circle of Willis, via vertebral circulation). People do have different anatomy when it comes to brain circulation, since anatomical variations exist amongst patients.
I still suspect they're playing to his "believer" ego a bit, since not all bilateral dissection patients MUST stroke out, and not all strokes ARE "massive" (supra-clinical), i.e. there may be SOME damage he experienced as a result of clots thrown off from the presence of the tears, but it's just that the damage from ischemia is below the level of being clinically noticeable/detectable. Don't get me wrong: I'm not down-playing his luck here (in fact the opposite: he very easily could be dead, or worse, with persistent neurological defects, or in a coma, AKA persistent vegetative state). Just saying that it's not a "miracle", since many similar cases are reported in the medical literature (unless there's something particularly unique in his case that I'm not aware of, which is highly-likely).
Keep us updated on what they find, and how he's doing!
Adam
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22
Witnessing to athiests
by zound incan't seem to find anything about this in the reasoning book.
what do jehovah's witnesses usually say / instructed to say to try and get athiests interesteds in joining?.
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adamah
I can disprove Jehovah in 5 minute.
Athiesm is a religion
I'm an agnostic for a reason. I'm logical and see both sides. I cannot disprove God. (I can disprove the Shashu god Jehovah!)
BTW Richard Dawkins is an agnostic!
You and the OP might want to learn how to spell 'atheist' first, then look it up in a dictionary to understand what the term actually means BEFORE making absurd statements like "atheism is a religion" (nope: atheism is simply the rejection of the positive claim made by theists that God exists, where rejection of their claim is a perfectly rational thing to do, since theists haven't met their burden of proof to support accepting such a claim. Atheism is as much of a religion as non-stamp-collecting is a hobby).
By saying you cannot disprove God, you're actually referring to "strong atheism", which is the POSITIVE claim that God DOES NOT exist; that's a different matter, since THEN the burden of proof falls on the one who makes the claim (the strong atheist). Like you, I will make that claim about Abrahamic Jehovah, since I CAN prove He doesn't exist by using the Bible itself, based on inconsistent traits that are claimed for Him in scriptures. But can I prove the non-existence of some other random unknown deity? I'll cross that bridge of disproving when a need arises, since it's a bit like the old "if a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound" question.
As far as what Richard Dawkins does or does not claim to believe, thanks, but I think I won't take your word for it, since you seemingly didn't know about the stuff above.
Adam
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19
if you had a miraculous, unexplained escape from death..
by nonjwspouse inplus you were not baptised but grew up in a jw family, stopped attending or studying for 30 years then attempted to go back for a couple years.
the attempt had serious negative effects on your marriage, and personality, so you decided to stop all studies etc, for the time being ( over a year).
but with the full intention to return later and be baptised.. this miraculous, unexplained escape from death was discovered to have occured during this time of complete detachment from studies etc.. what would you feel explained this escape?
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adamah
As Outlaw's post shows, there's plenty of other POSSIBLE post-hoc rationalization for why God might've saved his life, but it's silliness to conjecture cause and effect when the cause is an untestable unproven hypothesis: that's just not how science works.
adamah, it was not only this Dr but also one at the mayo Clinic, in fact, a team of Drs there, all with the same conclusion. It is medically unexplained as to why he survived without a stroke. These cases are basically disgnosed at autopsy, usually when only one artery is involved. But for both, with signifigant tears, is so remarkable. His is now a case study there. His was found with a specific test to have occured, and not produced a stroke, and healed again in a period of several months.
Well, "all with the same conclusion" means you need to broaden the search for opinions and find someone who IS willing to investigate the answer, and not leave it as "God Dun It!". Perhaps a more-careful vascular study of his brain would reveal the presence of collateral circulation such that he was able to survive a leak? Maybe he clots quickly? Who knows? That's kind of the POINT: an explanation needs to be found.
Just realize there's a LONG WAY between "we don't know why he survived without a stroke" and "God Dun It!". I'd be VERY WORRIED about a team of doctors who are content to NOT find a plausible answer.
There is no known cause for this to happen spontainiously, ( no trauma cause) though they have guesses. We will do what they advise but they have no guarentee, or much to help aside from a baby asprin a day and no chiropractic manipulation etc... it won't happen again. I know of a few things to look for, but most of the time it is asymptomatic or with non remarkable symptoms. I know I will keep my eye out and demand, with a tantrum in needed, proper testing if something suspecious in the rhelm of what I now know, happens and a ER Dr seems unconcerned. If this is caught before a stroke occurs then chances are very good for survival. The key is getting him help when needed, and recognising when that might be.
So it sounds like he experienced an internal carotid artery dissection (possibly bilateral), or some other cerebral vascular accident in the circulatory system of his neck, which spontaneously resolved.
My problem is that although it's extremely rare for it to happen and survive (as evidenced by the ER doc saying this was the first case he's encountered), it's not IMPOSSIBLE. If we say 999 out of 1,000 patients die, it means 1 survives, so it's NOT UNHEARD of.
And suppose your husband IS the first case to survive the specific conditions they encountered?
Great: he beat the odds, and some medical researcher should try to figure out WHY he survived and publish the case. See, these are the kinds of situations where medicine ADVANCES in knowledge, as it's an opportunity to examine WHY your husband beats the odds and then to "share the secret of his miracle" with other future patients in order to some day be able to save THEIR lives. THAT'S how science and medicine works: people today benefit from the lessons learned on patients treated in the past.
But to say, "you shouldn't be alive now" doesn't do anything helpful, but only allows the doctor to get some kind of power trip by playing as if he's an agent of God/Death. It means he's got to get off his butt and figure out WHY, rather than throwing up his hands and saying, "oh, well, must've been God who dun it". That's NOT an answer that anyone who considers themselves a man of science would settle for.
Now what my husband will feel about all of this is what I am concerned about. What he will attribute it to. I am not concerned the drs call him lucky to be alive, and to remark never having seen a surviver with this occurng, in all his years of practice. Those are truthful statements. I am concerned about my husbands frame of mind. What it might cause HIM to believe and act on.
Well, that's kinda my point. Your husband HAS to rely on his doctors, but if they're not willing to investigate, I'd ask WHY they're not willing to do the hard work.
I get a bit offended when I hear of physicians who are theists who play the "God Dun It!" card in their patient consults, since here's a trade secret: if providers get a whiff of believer in the bed, they'll use it as a time-saving excuse to blow-off the patients, knowing that it plays to the patient's sense of narcissism of being loved by a God who cares to intervene on their behalf: it seems to make patients happy (and saves the doctor a few minutes on a patient consult, BTW). I consider that more than a tad intellectually dishonest and deceitful to drag religious beliefs into the clinical examination room to play up to patients.
It means the provider MAY NOT really be committed to SOLVING and ADVANCING medical knowledge, but seemingly are content to "leave it in God's hands".
Adam
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Witnessing to athiests
by zound incan't seem to find anything about this in the reasoning book.
what do jehovah's witnesses usually say / instructed to say to try and get athiests interesteds in joining?.
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adamah
When confronted with an atheist, most JWs typically do what this guy goes: just barrel on as if the householder didn't say they don't believe in God:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_pQu0BlN74?t=5m39s
Of course, not all atheists are created equal, i.e. as much as it pains me to admit it, Ray Comfort is right in that there actually ARE some ignorant atheists who don't WANT God to exist for no good reasons to back up their feeling, just as there's believers who simply WANT God TO exist but cannot explain WHY; they similarly cannot explain WHY they believe what they believe, and are equally useless, IMO. If you believe something, you should be able to EXPLAIN WHY to others.
Some atheists HAVE studied religion, including the history of Judaism and Christianity, PLUS they studied science: biology, embryology, chordate/invertebrate anatomy, inorganic/physical chemistry, organic chemistry, biochem, physiology, psychology, botany, etc, etc, and they HAVE directly examined the evidence of the material World, and have concluded that if God DIDN'T create life, HE sure as HELL went out of His way to hide His tracks of having been the "Intelligent Designer", but even worse, God seemingly inserted "false flags" into the Bible to make Himself look to be a puppet of uneducated Middle Eastern superstitious nomads who eg believed in a flat Earth covered by a dome (firmament) just like ALL THE OTHER ancient men, JUST to throw the scientists off some 2,500 yrs later!
If that was the plan, then KUDOS!
I find that hard to swallow: a God who created the Universe would have to be the Master Scientist/Physicist, and such a God should be honored by clever men who studied His creation (like Isaac Newton, a theist). God should not be THREATENED by scientific exploration of "His" work. Like I say, though, there's no reason to think WANTING God to exist is going to accomplish anything: you cannot will God INTO existence, any more than He can be willed OUT of existence. His existence doesn't hinge on what humans WANT, and that's ALL I see a bunch of evidence for: uneducated people who WANT to wallow in ignorance, and demand that everyone else get in the same mud bath with them, since ignorance loves company.
Adam
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Evolution, Biogeography VS. Experimental archaeology
by Brother of the Hawk ini thought of posting this on an ongoing thread regarding proof of noahs flood by poster *lost*, but i think a separate thread is needed.
this is why.. first my disclaimer.
this thread is a theory since so many people love the theory and so as not to hurt feelings and insult anyone, this is only a theory.. my personal observation is this, as long as you bash watchtower all is ok. as soon as you try to present any resemblance of christianity or any belief in the bible, such as the flood, you are personally bashed.
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adamah
adamah: Neither one of these terms are based in facts. The defintions sound the same to me. Is this the best you've got?
Really?
OK, then you've made it's crystal-clear you have absolutely NO IDEA of the basics definitions of crucial terms to understand before discussing any scientific endeavor, but WORSE: you seemingly don't actually care enough to LEARN! Instead, you seem merely content to strike a few scientific poses, as if mimicking someone who's only content to act like a scientist on the internet. So have a good time!
Adam
PS in case you care to learn:
Here's the first chapter:
http://ncse.com/files/pub/creationism/Evo%20vs.%20Creationism--2nd%20edition--Chapter%201.pdf
That's a well-written introduction to the scientific method, written by Eugenie C Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education. She is able to communicate about science topics in a manner which makes them easy for laypeople to understand.