Posts by adamah

16

Was Jesus an Apostate?

by zound in

was he viewed as an apostate by the pharasees and religious leaders?.

did this lead to his death or was it blaspheming, or are these the same things?.

adamah

Yup, that's the irony: Christianity didn't catch on with the Jews, but it sold like gangbusters to the Gentiles, who didn't know bupkis about Judaism (it had the appeal of being mysterious to them).

Well, remember Paul was a Hellenized Jew, which is a whole nuther ball o' wax. It's like someone who's GGGF was raised in Mexico wouldn't speak the same language/share the same cultural traditions. The first century was a time period of much cultural influx and blending of ideas, and Jews were undergoing much change as a result of their exposure to foreign concepts. That's kind of the point of Christianity: the blending was EXACTLY the kind of syncretism that the Torah warned about allowing to happen, so when Jesus came along, he was exactly what the threat the Torah spoke about (a false messiah, who's followers later split off from Judaism as a Jewish cult).

Adam

49

Dinosaur Soft Tissue, Blood, & DNA Catalog of Peer Reviewed Papers

by Perry in

the world's most comprehensive catalog of peer-reviewed journal papers documenting the existence of dinosaur soft tissue, blood cells and dna is here.

can't we all just agree to finally give a 150 year old theory a nice funeral?

there is no way this stuff lasts hundreds of millions of years!.

adamah

LOL! I looked at the homepage of kgov.com, and it's what, the Bob Enyart Radio Show? They have news items about a pot grower getting killed by his own booby trap, the guy killed in Oakland over an argument of the existence of God, and a donate button to the Denver Bible Church. I forgot to go back to the "science" page, but somehow I doubt I'm missing anything, as it seemed to offer about as much serious "science" as listening to a typical George Noorey radio show would.

Adam

16

Was Jesus an Apostate?

by zound in

was he viewed as an apostate by the pharasees and religious leaders?.

did this lead to his death or was it blaspheming, or are these the same things?.

adamah

adamah- what proof is there that Paul was a Jew and hunted down Christians to kill them.

Uh, the NT?

Obviously, I don't think it's a historical document in the way modern people think of "history" (and Aslan also discusses that in his book).

Outside of THAT, I don't believe there's ANY independent verification (eg Roman records, etc) that Paul even existed (I could be wrong, but can't think of any, off the top of my head).

Adam

16

Was Jesus an Apostate?

by zound in

was he viewed as an apostate by the pharasees and religious leaders?.

did this lead to his death or was it blaspheming, or are these the same things?.

adamah

Was he viewed as an apostate by the Pharasees and religious leaders?

Yeah, pretty much EVERY GROUP in power in Palestine was his enemy: he pissed the Pharisees AND Saduccees off.

The Torah prohibits the formation of splinter groups/sects from Judaism, making it a death penalty offense. Remember, Paul was born into a Pharisee family, abd he hunted the early Christians down as part of his obligation as an onservant Jew before encountering the vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus.

Reza Aslan has written an easy read on the topic called "Zealot"; it covers the apostasy of Jesus from mainstream Judaism.

Did this lead to his death or was it blaspheming, or are these the same things?

Jesus was executed by the Romans for sedition: by claiming to be the Jewish Messiah ("King of the Jews"), Jesus was directly giving the bird to Caesar, since Caesar was in control of the land of Palestine (an area occupied and under the control of the Roman Empire). That's why simply saying you were the Jewish messiah was an act of sedition, punishable by death by crucifixion, reserved as a form of punishment for crimes against the Empire. The blasphemy charge is NOT consistent with being executed by crucifixion, and the Sanhedrin didn't even have the authority by the Romans to exercise capital punishment of fellow Jews, and they would execute Jesus for a religious sin like 'blasphemy'.

Aslan's a good read: you'd like it, as it's very accessible, factually-correct and meticulously researched with footnotes.

EDIT:

Let me clarify. I have strong doubts Jesus even existed at all, but wondering from the point of view of people interpretting the bible as real events.

Yeah, I don't doubt a Jewish messiah claimaint named Jesus actually lived, and is the kernel of truth upon which the legend of Jesus is based (I'm an atheist, although the real Jesus wouldn't necessarily bear any resemblance to the stories which blossomed in his wake, and grew up around him).

Adam

36

Am I wasting my time?

by mrhhome in

jw
friends

i am the husband of an ex-jw.

she left when she was 18, because she was dating a non-jw.

they got married, and he began openly cheating on her.

adamah

mrhhome said-

My wife thinks that I am wasting my time trying to talk to them. As she says, "You underestimate the power of their conviction. You cannot reason with them." Maybe she is right, but I hold out hope that her brother realizes (or will realize) that this is non-sense. Am I wasting my time?

First off, welcome aboard!

"Are you wasting your time"? It depends on what your goal is.

If you goal is to extricate her family from the JWs, as a ex-Baptist with no connection to the JWs (aside from marrying an ex-member), I dare say you should probably listen to your wife on this one: you likely stand a snowball's chance in Gehenna of using LOGIC to convince them, as JWs actually rely on their own unique brand of logic (more like a psuedo-logic, with a creamy fallacy-filled center). They consider you as a "Worldly One", and they ain't buying religion, they're SELLING it. Talking to a JW is usually like a conversation with an automaton, as they're not listening to what YOU say, but pre-selecting from a palette of JW-approved responses to appear to be engaging in conversation, selecting the appropriate canned theological reponse to play back for you to hear. Theological arguments are generally pointless, unless you REALLY know the Bible backwards and forwards.

So it's not about rational thinking with them, and JWs stay in "the Truth", mostly because of the EMOTIONAL benefits it brings to them, and because the COST of exiting the religion is so high (as you know ALL ABOUT: you've seen the shunning, first-hand). Most have to find themselves in a position where they're FORCED to open their eyes, and that's something that no one else can force on them. Since she's being shunned, there's no much opportunity for you to interact anyway, I'd think (you were seeing them only once a year BEFORE this incident? Hmmm....).

Sounds like a great wife you have there! Hold on to her TIGHTLY and don't EVER let her go!

Adam

7

Find a way

by dissonance_resolved in

jw
friends

i found diana nyad's epic swim from cuba to florida to be really inspiring at this point in my journey from jw land to freedom.

her mantra was "you don't like this.

find a way.".

adamah

Hi dissonance resolved,

Don't forget that the point of cognitive dissonance theory is that people will try to resolve it via either:

1) eliminating the SOURCE of it (facing up to facts) OR,

2) reducing it by using suppression techniques (eg thought control, denial, etc).

They BOTH work to resolve cognitive dissonance, it's just that the first approach is long-term, wheras the second approach is potentially only a temporary patch-job, basically tantamount to lying to oneself.

Find a way. - There's no turning around and going back. I don't know what it's like to get to the other side, but I have to believe that I can do it and it will be worth it. I have to find a way.

Yup.

William S. Burroughs once said, "Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside." Truer truths were never spoken, and kudos for having the emotional courage to take the problem head-on and confront it, rather than hoping it'll just go away on it's own.

Adam

7

Help me help others!!

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

help me reverse witness!.

what would you say in reply to the daily text of september 4th, 2013?

please help me to comment on it on a jw forum, pretending to come from the angle of a christian who does not believe in jw's:.

adamah

There will also be false teachers among you.—2 Pet. 2:1.

Yeah, I'd have a hard time biting my tongue on that one, since it's arguably the most ironic scripture in the entire Bible since the ENTIRE BOOK of 2nd Peter stinks to High Heaven of being a fraudulent writing (the product of someone who claimed to be the then-long-dead Apostle Peter). So that scripture is the pot calling the kettle black, as if to draw away attention from it's pitch-black color.

The epistle of 2nd Peter magically appeared out of thin air it seems, and was the last book accepted into the NT canon which coincidentally patched up a few theological issues facing the early Church at the time (eg trying to squash the 'Peter vs Paul' battles, supporting the idea that Noah preached and offered salvation, and to turn Lot into a saint). I've written about these issues quite extensively on my blog:

awgue.weebly.com main page (pulldown menu is in top right to select articles on 2nd Peter vs Genesis accounts for Noah and Lot).

None of which helps you to reverse-witness on THIS scripture, mind you, as questioning the authorship of 2nd Peter itself is a big-time red flag for that screams, apostate in our midsts!, which is a pointless battle to engage in (and it would be a different matter if the daily scripture was 2nd Peter's claim about "righteous" Lot vs Genesis' account, where you say you were reading the original Genesis account of Lot and just couldn't see the righteousness of Lot; or even the claim in 2nd Peter that says Noah preached a message of salvation before the Flood, when you read the Genesis account itself which CLEARLY STATES saw God had already made up His mind EVEN BEFORE telling Noah of His plans to destroy the Earth; God cannot change His mind, can He? Both would be easy to play dumb, acting all innocent, and asking the person to resolve the discrepancy).

Adam

2

AP News article: Speaking in tongues is DOWN amongst Pentecostals?

by adamah in

speaking in tongues is down amongst pentecostals?.

http://abcnews.go.com/health/wirestory/messages-tongues-pentecostals-20126103?singlepage=true.

messages in tongues down among pentecostalslos angeles august 31, 2013 (ap)by sarah parvini associated press at three crosses church, pastor ken walters urges his parishioners to join him in song and scripture.

adamah

Vidiot said-

No matter how good something may make people feel, you'll still find more people who feel better by not looking weird.

Apparently not this lady, though: she's willing to take the risk of looking weird, in the name of serving her God as thanks for a gift she ASKED for, being filled with the Holy Spirit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDe_WXKM860

And a believer who's a bit of cynical of those who are slain by the holy spirit, and understands that Biblical speaking in tongues was the ability to speak a foreign language so that native speakers of the language could understand the words, in THEIR language:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDTBfYDsY7A

Adam

268

After 2000 years since JC was executed ,why have we heard not a whisper from GOD ALMIGHTY ?

by smiddy in

he/she had no problem talking to adam and eve ,though they were sinners in his/her sight .throughout the hebrew sriptures, ot, he /she had no problem communicating with fallen man ,imperfect humans , to dictate his will to his subjects by means of prophets , male and female ,according to the bible , the old testament ,the hebrew scriptures , god communicated not once ,not twice ,not even thrice ,but dozens of times during the first 4000 years of human history according to the bible.. why has this god been so silent these past 2000 years ,when their have been atrocities above the scale of anything that has ever been seen these past 6000 years of human existence .. oh you may say that the atrocities were not committed by god they were committed by man.

fair enough .but god intervened in human affairs in such smaller infringements.

with prophets or so the bible says.. the so called apostacy after the last of the apostles , the influence of satan in the world ,( or was that after 1914 ,) and the 2000 year gap when christ was supposed to return ,never mind about all the crap that went before it .. the fact remains we have never heard from god ,any god, or even" a " god, with either his/her approval or disapproval of events good or bad these past 2000 years... smiddy.

adamah

Dewandelaar, I still say comparing God's endorsement of ownership of non-Jewish people to a modern-day "wage slave" (or to claim that debt to the Mafia (!) is valid: does it need to be pointed out that they'd BREAK THE LAW in order to murder someone? Mafia's practices are NOT endorsed by society) is a false equivalency.

Jesus seemingly didn't believe in fundamental human rights of slaves, eg freedom from torture (Jesus spoke of beating slaves), even the right to a fair trial before depriving slaves of their life (in the parable of faith wise servant, Jesus didn't blink an eye when he cited the right of a master being allowed to deprive his slave of his life for merely disobeying him). Heck, that concept is reflected in the idea of God destroying humans who refuse to be Jesus' slaves, for not hearing his voice.

Never-mind that the Bible doesn't contain any such high-minded concepts as freedom of speech, thought, conscience, religion, etc and the OTHER basic human rights you currently enjoy: of course, it often contains the OPPOSITE, but OF COURSE you wouldn't see a problem since you've always ENJOYED those rights and take them for granted, such that you don't even know what they are.

You cannot claim with a straight face that the Bible has ANYTHING close to the morality encapsulated in, eg the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Declaration_of_Human_Rights

Adam

92

Young man walks out of Glasgow convention and commits suicide

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

last weekend.

so unbelievably sad.

rip.

adamah

Yeah, religious ideology is tolerable for those who possess a firm grasp on reality, so playing the make-believe game of imagining a supernatural dimension is OK for many individuals, since they are able to maintain a sense of themselves.

However, for those struggling with mental illnesses of various types, it's just too much, and those "fire and brimstone" accounts of Armageddon takes on a much-more threatening and menacing tone for them vs normals, being a toxic poison for their minds that triggers anxiety disorders, psychotic breaks, etc. Of course, the WT actually seeks these types of personalities out, thinking they offer the ANSWER to all that cures the troubles of the World: prayer, Bible study, and field service. They offer the mental-health equivalent of an 1890's patent medicine cure-all.

Then if their "treatment" fails, oh, well: call 911 to have paramedics load up the body of their "oh, well, we tried" treatment failures into a body bag. Shockingly, we allow this kind of nonsense to continue in 2013, based on ancient superstitious beliefs being protected under freedom of religious worship with NO reasonable safeguards in place.

Of course, the anti-apostate talk is ramping up the volatility, since those struggling with doubts will see no other way out but eternal death; it becomes a self-correcting problem for the Society in their minds, if they can get some of those harboring apostate thoughts to eliminate themselves.

Adam