i am new to the board and have read countless gripes and pokes at "the organization" but i fail to find one interesting question.. in preface... i was disfellowshiped myself over 5 years ago.
in that time, i had done much searching, visited many churches and faithes.. going to some for as short as one session and some as long as 6 - 8 months.
after i felt my search was in vein i stopped attempting to go to these shurches all together.. i never forgot how to pray through.
AOV
Here is my question though - What do we base what we think we know on? Facts? Written by whom? Or is what we read or written even have anything to do with the words themselves?
What I'm trying to emphasise is that, just as you question where I might have got my information, which you are right to do, you must also use the same yardstick against Watchtower. Question EVERYTHING. Believe NOTHING. Do your own RESEARCH!
Dansk
1) posh and becks are sitting in front of the television watching the.
six o'clock news.
the main story is a man threatening to jump off the.
I take it you're not impressed with Becks and Posh, then?
Doesn't bother me, he plays for Real Madrid (but Searchforthetruth will be sad he can't make any Manchester United skits!).
Dansk
i am new to the board and have read countless gripes and pokes at "the organization" but i fail to find one interesting question.. in preface... i was disfellowshiped myself over 5 years ago.
in that time, i had done much searching, visited many churches and faithes.. going to some for as short as one session and some as long as 6 - 8 months.
after i felt my search was in vein i stopped attempting to go to these shurches all together.. i never forgot how to pray through.
Hi Anotheropenviewpoint (what a mouthful!).
I learnt pain from the organisation - and from this pain I made sure I no longer took things at face value, nor took the word of man literally. It is obvious you are passionate about your belief, but please realise we were all once just as passionate. Yes, we HAVE learned from being JWs - some good, some excrutiatingly bad!
AOV (that's easier!), Watchtower sets great emphasis on making God's name known - and yet 'Jehovah' is completely erroneous, as is the name 'Jesus'.
You wrote:
I gave up in my own ability to decide or "know" what is truth, only through prayer do I ask God (Jehovah) personally to use me in his will, Whether or not he chooses to do so is up to him.
The word ‘Jehovah’ dates only from the year 1520 (cf. Hastings, "Dictionary of the Bible", II, 1899, p. 199: Gesenius-Buhl, "Handwörterbuch", 13th ed., 1899, p. 311). Drusius (loc. cit., 344) represents Peter Galatinus as the inventor of the word Jehovah, and Fagius as it propagator in the world of scholars and commentators. But the writers of the sixteenth century, Catholic and Protestant (e.g. Cajetan and Théodore de Bèze), are perfectly familiar with the word. Galatinus himself ("Areana cathol. veritatis", I, Bari, 1516, a, p. 77) represents the form as known and received in his time. Besides, Drusius (loc. cit., 351) discovered it in Porchetus, a theologian of the fourteenth century.
Finally, the word is found even in the "Pugio fidei" of Raymund Martin, a work written about 1270 (ed. Paris, 1651, pt. III, dist. ii, cap. iii, p. 448, and Note, p. 745). Probably the introduction of the name Jehovah antedates even R. Martin."
The word seems to come via the German monasteries where YHWH was written JHVH (J is Y in German and W becomes V). Because of the ban from Leviticus 24:16: "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, dying let him die" - there was a ban in Biblical Times from pronouncing the tetragrammaton, and the word Adonai, (=Lord) was read whenever YHWH was in the text. In the late Middle Agecs the vowels of AdOnAi were added (in Germany( to the Tetragrammaton JHVH to make JaHoVaH = Jahovah, later Anglicised to Jehovah.
As an Elohim (composite male and female) God of YH (Yah, Yahu, Yaa, Yaw or Yahw) and the Goddess HWH - we get the composite name Yahweh. Further, the name has been traced to a 1400 BC Ugaritic text where YHWH is one of the 70 sons of the Canaanite creator god 'El'. In other words, the Hebrew God 'Yahweh' is derived from a pagan source (bet they don't teach you that in your Bible studies!).
Regarding Jesus, the English 'Jesus' is far from the original pronunciation of the man's name. We get Jesus from Anglo-Saxon English, in which (like German today) the J was originally pronounced as a Y (like Johan is pronounced in German Yohan). Thus in Anglo-saxon times his name was pronounced *Yesus rather than *Jesus.
In Roman times Jesus, or Jesu, was pronounced as 'Hesu', which is closer to the Modern Arabic 'Isa'. In any case, it is clear from the times that the medial -s- was probably aspirated, as -sh-. When translated from Aramaic into Greek, the diphthong -uah seems to have been simplified as -u.
Thus in Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, his name was probably not Jesus (English) or Jesu (Latin) but Yeshuah. This was the 1st Century Palestinian (or even Galilean) Aramaic way, I understand, for pronouncing the name Joshua.
If one was interested in accurate pronunciation of the name of the man in English, one would have to use something like Yeshuah, not Jesus. Unfortunately we call him Jesus Christ, almost as if Christ was a surname. Yet Christ is a Greek title (meaning annointed), not an Aramaic name, and would not have been used in any setting during Yeshuah's lifetime. Thus to someone alive who knew Yeshuah personally they would, on hearing a modern English speaker use the words "Jesus Christ", ask "Who is that?"
Is all of this important? Well, it certainly is to me because I learnt I was using two incorrect names during prayers. I also learnt that the whole of the Bible has its roots in Egypt (that's another story).
So, AOV, many of us have learnt an awful lot while being JWs - but we've learnt the REAL truth since leaving.
I wish you well with your studies, but please be sure to look outside of Watchtower material for accuracy. I spent 19 years in the organisation, but compared to others on this forum that's absolutely nothing. Please search the archives here and read the posts of AlanF, Hillary Step and Gamaliel. Also, be sure to read Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Raymond Franz.
Best wishes,
Dansk
i have been reading quite a few of these threads and post and through it i feel as though i have come to know some of you and your behaviors.. i notice that there are many of you who are still associated with the hall, and have not left yet... yet, bring up very "strong" points on the board.. i have a question for all of you who fit this description.... why dont you just 'effin leave already?
whats holding you back?
if you feel soooo strongly that this is "wrong" are you too chicken to state your opinion to a family member?
Hey, Hillary, have you been spending time with OUTLAW (where is he?) as you do a lot of "LOLs" in your posts?!
Dansk
what, in your opinion, is the worst thing that the society has released?
(book / tract / video / audio cassette)
Uhm, has it ever produced a good one?
Dansk
now that i have read a lot of threads and comments, i can only imagine that the majority of ex jws are (and were) much more keen to learn then the ordinary dub.
when i look to myself, i took everything for common, but once i start looking further - i found out so much -not expected- that i let myself fade away.
with another personality i should have disassociate myself.
Absolutely! Recent revelations on Watchtower falseness I've thoroughly digested recently are: Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom both by Ray Franz, The Gentile Times Rediscovered by Carl Olof Jonsson, The Sign of the Last Days, When? by Carl Olof Jonsson and Wolfgang Herbst, Jehovah's Witnesses by Edmond C. Gruss, and A Short History of The Bible by Bronson C. Keeler.
Dansk
pioneer, ms, elder publisher???
?
In congregations that I've been in:One MS removed for low hours on his service report - never having been warned by the elders.
I wonder why, then, Rutherford was never removed? He never went out in service in his entire life!
BTW, as far as I know, and in spite of my leaving the organisation and being shunned, there's been no announcement that I'm no longer an MS. Perhaps I should go back and show my beard!
Dansk
pioneer, ms, elder publisher???
?
Attitude was always a biggie. Even if you did what you were supposed to do but didn't show the right attitude you could face censure. One brother had his privileges removed because he stunk. They were returned when he decided to comply with the rules on good hygiene. Sadly, he just started stinking again as time went on. He's still a MS.
Stinking GB, stinking DOs, stinking COs, stinking elders, stinking Mss - they all stink! Why single out this poor guy?! Dansk
HEARTY CONGRATULATIONS! Pity I can’t see anything but red Xs . Dansk
i can honestly say i never trusted the elders in my congregation; there wasnt a single one of them that i thought would be of any use what-so-ever in helping with a problem.
on the contrary, whenever i had to speak to an elder, i invariably felt worse afterwards!.
this brings me to the point of this post.
Interesting, CV:
He told her to talk to brother so and so in a neighboring congregation because most elders tell their wives too much, but this particular elder didn't, according to the DO.
If the DO was so sure about this why didn't he remove the elders from your ex-wife's congregation?!
Dansk
