Posts by starScream

53

Dizzy Christianity - Fraudulent and Evil Rotten - from beginning to end

by Xander in

was going to bump the other thread, but, this....just...... i mean:.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm.

some fun the early christians had:the pope's pears:.

starScream

There are fundamental differences between asking to prove where God came from and proving where biological life came from. We both recognize the existence of biological life. We know there was a time when biological life did not exist. Me saying that biological life was created and you saying it came about on its own is like: two people who say that biological life was created; one saying the creator was created and another saying it came about on its own.

You do not recognize the existence of a creator of the biological life in question. There is now way of knowing if there was a time when the creator did not exist. We do know that biological life did not exist and came into being at one point.

I'm not asking you to prove biological life exists. My assertion that biological life is evidence that God exists is in response to the challenge that God does not exist. To attack the evidence I submit by challenging the origin of God(b-life creator) does not address the evidence. The fact remains, biological life does exist.

You are acting like you challenging me to show where God came from is the same thing. If you recognize the existence of God then it is the same thing. The problem is that if you do then you are posing a response to a challenge that does not exist. Your challenge is paradoxal. Mine is not.

I think the former more likely, and so would a class of five year olds, which is a good way of seeing stupid arguements. Try it some time.

Ok

If you gain some satifsfaction from saying 'entropy' when you are asserting that something complex and orgainsed (god) came from nothing, fine, but I don;t see how it makes your arguement any stronger.

No I did not say that. You said that. Apparently you understand the second law of thermodynamics. The question:

Which one is entropic?

was directly attached to this statement by you,

I am saying things started simple and grew complex. Your belief requires complexity (god) from the outset. Which makes more sense?

You asked which one made more sense. I cited physics 101. You apparently thought that decreasing entropy would convince me that your theory was more plausible. A classroom of physicists blah blah blah

16

Do You Think Your Faith Was Real?

by sandy in

i was baptized at 13 and i never felt a close personal relationship with god.

my prayers were without emotion.

i nver felt close to god.

starScream

logansrun,

Why would anyone want to have an irrational belief system that is not grounded in tangible reality as the guiding principle in their life?

I said :

Faith means trust. It is something that is intangible and irrational.

Faith is irrational. Something that is irrational can still exist and be valuable. Pi is irrational as a number. It cannot be tangibly defined or rationally expressed as a number even though it is a number with numeric value. What part does Pi have in engineering?

I am assuming your question was rhetorical and at me....

I said, faith means trust. In terms of Christianity I made the focus of this trust Jesus Christ. I made no refference to a belief system nor did I say anything about said system being the "guiding principle" in my life. I'm not even sure what guiding principle said system is in contrast to that would qualify it with the word "the".

The implcation of your question has been misguided in terms of what I said.

If your question was not rhetorical...

The U.S. Marine Corps as its motto is semper fidelis. This means ever faithful. Given what they do and how well they do it I have no reason to ask them why. I'm sure it is because it helps them do what it is they do. (If your question was not rhetorical) and the subject interests you so much maybe you could write your dissertation on the power of faith.

jgnat,

yes, I remember Christianity was too easy to be true. That was why it was false. My mom made that point so many times it stopped sounding moronic. I remember going to the meetings and seeing all these people that are "suposedly" christian just hanging around. "Yes, I am so much better then they are. I am going to the meeting and showing Jehovah that I am better than they are. I am exposing their error by sitting in the Kingdom Hall not paying attention."

16

Do You Think Your Faith Was Real?

by sandy in

i was baptized at 13 and i never felt a close personal relationship with god.

my prayers were without emotion.

i nver felt close to god.

starScream

I don't know if what the JWs have can be called faith.

I absolutely believed everything the Watchtower said and claimed to be. I wasn't trying to trick myself. It was very real for me. I don't think it was faith though. It was mental education by an instituiton. Faith means trust. It is something that is intangible and irrational. To a Christian it is trusting in Christ through love. That does not fit with the Watchtower. The Watchtower has as its facade presumption of authority in contrast to faith in Christ.

I would say I did not have faith in Christ because the term "faith in Christ" I would not have understood what it meant or even be aware that such a term existed. If someone told me they had faith in Christ I would have been laughing on the inside. I knew subconciously they were not within the 'presumption of authority' and that their faith was useless. I remember talking to people at doors and they would say how much God changed their lives and they looked very emotional about it. I remember automatically judging them as unchristian or wicked because they might have been wearing sweat pants or have a beard. I remember that I actually felt confident that I was superior because I went to "church" three times a week, walked around wearing a suit, and made the organization look "christian" aka good. The fact that I was at their door told me I was right and that YOU should listen to ME!!!!

53

Dizzy Christianity - Fraudulent and Evil Rotten - from beginning to end

by Xander in

was going to bump the other thread, but, this....just...... i mean:.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm.

some fun the early christians had:the pope's pears:.

starScream

I ask you now to prove where god came from.

I already stated the evidence for the existence of God. Biological life is evidence of a creator. You are recognizing God exists based on the evidence and asking me where God came from?

Otherwise we are tied when it comes to initial origins.

I have never heard a naturalist admit a tie on the God debate. This is unprecedented (for me anyway).

You ask for proof of abiogenesis, the origin of life from inanimate matter. There is no proof, just theories.

Then show a specific model theory.

I am saying things started simple and grew complex.

Your belief requires complexity (god) from the outset. Which makes more sense?

Which one is entropic? Does entropy makes sense or is entropy just a theory?

I am still surprised that you admit a tie at the very least. I don't care about "cramming" God down your throat. I don't think there is much more I can say that would make you come to the same conclusion I do that spontaneous generation is more of a missing leap or even impossibility than a link. If you call spontaneous generation a tie in terms of evidence for creation then I think you at least consider them both possible despite what you consider likely.

12

What does the Bible say about Jesus Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

who is jesus christ?

what does the bible say?

1: jesus christ is god almighty, the supreme being [omnipotent] (john 1:1-3; john 20:28-29; hebrews 1:6, 1:8, 1:10; psalm 45:6; psalm 102:25; titus 2:13; romans 9:5; colossians 2:9).

starScream

William,

You know you don't have a bible underneath a table leg in your house. Stop telling lies.

12

What does the Bible say about Jesus Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

who is jesus christ?

what does the bible say?

1: jesus christ is god almighty, the supreme being [omnipotent] (john 1:1-3; john 20:28-29; hebrews 1:6, 1:8, 1:10; psalm 45:6; psalm 102:25; titus 2:13; romans 9:5; colossians 2:9).

starScream

When you say that God created all things by Himself

he did say that at Isa 44:24

are you saying that the Father created all things by Himself?

No this Jehovah character that I reffered to must have been Jesus unless Jesus' pants are on fire and hanging from a telephone wire.

If so, then why did God say, "Let US make man in OUR own image"?

for the same reason Jehovah said "I caused an overthrow among you people, like God's overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah." (amos 4:10-11)

God is more than one person.

6

The reason why I condemn the witnesses

by crinklestein in

i once engaged in a debate about why the catholic church was a totally corrupt organization and is bloodguilty for hundreds of years of murder and deciet and one half-assed "i'm sorry" is not going to make up for it.

not even a thousand sorries will make up for it.

after visiting here and seeing all the horrible experiences you all have had i now apply the debate to the witnesses as well.

starScream

Crinkelstein,

that is a Good point you raise about "the pharisees" being God's organization. The Catholic Church is guilty of exactly what you said about the pharisees making up a bunch of nonsense and completely losing the foundational purpose of the religion.

Xander made an Indictment :

*Dizzy* Christianity - Fraudulent and Evil Rotten - from beginning to end

on Bible Research & Study Articles : which, although is a false indictment of Christ (the beginning), all God fearing Christians (the "to") and Christ again (the end), it does demonstrate what happens when men assume authorities beyond what God has given them. Personally though I think you have made a similar error in condemning the witnesses (instead of the Watchtower) as Xander has made in his indictment of all Christians and Christ. I know it was not your intent but it could undermine your credibilty to any JW lurkers.

12

What does the Bible say about Jesus Christ?

by UnDisfellowshipped in

who is jesus christ?

what does the bible say?

1: jesus christ is god almighty, the supreme being [omnipotent] (john 1:1-3; john 20:28-29; hebrews 1:6, 1:8, 1:10; psalm 45:6; psalm 102:25; titus 2:13; romans 9:5; colossians 2:9).

starScream

Don't forget that God alone created all things without any help (Isa 44:24).

Jehovah shares his glory with no one, (? verse) Jesus returns to the Father to the Glory he shared before coming to Earth (? again verse)

Jesus is the First and the Last (Rev 1:17). Jehovah is the First and the Last (Isa 44:6). The First and the Last is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev 22:12). The Alpha and the Omega is the Almighty (Rev 1:8).

Jesus Christ is coming (Heb 1:6). The Almighty is coming (Rev 1:7-8)

Jehovah alone is most high over the Earth (Psalm 83:18), Jesus has all the power in Heaven and Earth (Matt 28:18)

Jesus- "No one is good but one, and that one is God alone" (Mrk 10:18), Jesus- "I am the GOOD shepherd...My sheep know me and I know them" (John 10:14.....)

53

Dizzy Christianity - Fraudulent and Evil Rotten - from beginning to end

by Xander in

was going to bump the other thread, but, this....just...... i mean:.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm.

some fun the early christians had:the pope's pears:.

starScream

Right, if I see people suffering I want to step in and end it; to relieve them of it. Why, then, doesn't God stop all these cruel injustices now? If we are made in his image, He has the same sympathy as I - so why doesn't he step in?

We are already discussing this issue on this thread : http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/47925/1.ashx

Resurection of "Can any believer answer this?"2

on beliefs doctrine and practices.

I have stated that complex chemical machines aka biological life is evidence God exists. You are submitting evidence that God does not exist. That does not address the evidence that I have submitted.

That's like someone saying,.... It is pretty clear that the Earth is the centre of the Universe with the sun rotating around it. Only has that been recently challenged."

I never said that was a reasonable argument. It was simply a rebuttle to this arguement:

Just as Bush is president of the USA it would be that clear for all of the world.

I put that right before what I said. End of discussion on that topic. Neither point is ervidence nor are they the topic. Now if you can prove how life did get here, which is the issue then I am waiting.

To me it's far more realistic to assume the slow growth in complexity of life, backed up as it is by the evidence, and to allow that life arose from non-living matter,

"to allow that life rose from non-living matter". This is EXACTLY what I have challenged. Finally someone has even recognized the issue. Evolution of EXISTING life is not the issue nor is it evidence. The issue is non-living matter. The issue is not god being good or evil. The issue is not monkeys into man. The issue is non-living matter turning into living matter without God or someone else doing it.

53

Dizzy Christianity - Fraudulent and Evil Rotten - from beginning to end

by Xander in

was going to bump the other thread, but, this....just...... i mean:.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/murderers.htm.

some fun the early christians had:the pope's pears:.

starScream

To the one that demands proof that God exists...

I submitted: complex chemical machines, aka biological life, a creation.

Just as Bush is president of the USA it would be that clear for all of the world.

It is pretty clear that God created the life on earth. Only has that been recently challenged.

Please don't give me some massive response, just give a counterpoint if you wish.