gcc2k

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Posts by gcc2k

• 
  23

  You are SO not gonna believe this

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well prodigal jw husband came home last night from his jw field trip back up north.

  we had the house all cleaned and daddy was on the way home from the airport...but didnt show up.

  i knew immediately where he was.

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  gcc2k

  Got 2 words for you. Marriage counselor.
  You have bigger issues than just religion.
• 
  48

  WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

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  gcc2k

  I don't have a problem. It's called using the funds wisely. Would you rather they lose money? I'm glad they use the money wisely, if they make money out of a sale for to further on the preaching work. They go ahead and do that. Now if they were selling a property below it's value, then I would have a problem with it.

  I have a problem with selling a property to Babylon at a huge profit, and starting all over again.

  How do you know that the money is going to further the preaching work? Absolutely no disclosure is done at the top level.
  Perhaps if the Society made available their financial records, just as they do at a congregation level, these questions would not exist.

  Bought property for Hall in 1972 for $20,000. Remodeled building to suit purposes in '72. Remodelled in 1988 at a cost of $40,000. The name of the title was under the Society. We sold the Hall in 1993 at $120,000. Although the Hall was under the name of the Society, we did not return that money to them, instead we used it towards a new Hall with the Society's blessing. We built the new Hall in 1994 at a cost of $250,000. We financed through the Society the difference of $130,000 for 10 years at 3% interest. The first year, some of the congregations had financial hardships and we could not cover the payment for about 6 months. The Society said no problem. Not a bad lender, eh?

  Thanks for confirming that the Society does in fact charge interest on money that I contributed to the worldwide work.
  This practice, even if it is to cover inflation costs, is unscriptural.

  I will acknowledge the two examples you mention showing that the Society is not just in it for money, at least at face value.
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  48

  WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

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  gcc2k

  SOJ says:

  So just because the land and buildings are worth millions doesn't mean the Society should make a huge sale. These properties serve their purpose.

  True. But what is that purpose?

  Let's take an assembly hall. The society buys the property for $X. Using volunteer labor, the hall is built, and now has a total cost of $Y, arguably less than market value because of the cost of labor.

  10 years later, this hall is deemed outdated or too small, and is sold to Babylon the Great for $Z where Z is a large multiple of Y.
  The Society pockets the difference (putting it towards the worldwide work, of course).

  A site is chosen for a new assembly hall. The society buys the property for $X. Using volunteer labor, the hall is built, and now has a total cost of $Y, arguably less than market value because of the cost of labor...

  Do you have a problem with this cycle SOJ? I do.

  As far as the Pacific Educational Center (which I had never heard of), what could be the motivation and/or stated reasons for owning this property? To train missionaries going out into China perhaps?
• 
  19

  Letter Read Last Night

  by Intuit39 in

  1. social
  2. current

  hey bro, i just thought it may interest you to know that they read a letter last night describing how they need to build a new printing facility up at patterson that will be the size of two assembly halls.

  they will be getting all new printing machines to be shipped from all over the world, and they will need many volunteers for the project to be completed by january 2004. and we should all realize that this is going to be at a tremendous cost, the buildings alone should cost about 60,000,000 dollars.

  please start praying about what we can do, yada, yada, yada.

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  gcc2k

  Are you sure it was Patterson? I know that when the "Educational Center" began, the town was quite opposed to the project, and only agreed to it because they thought they would be getting some commercial benefit from the project. As I recall, that was the primary purpose of the Patterson Inn onsite - to generate taxable revenue for the town. In reality, not much revenue has come from there, as far as I know.

  Wallkill is a much more likely place to build a printing operation.
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  19

  The Watchtower’s Investments in Warfare Technology

  by l3gi0n in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this cant really be true, can it?

  the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.

  i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.

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  gcc2k

  Thanks for the clarification.
• 
  49

  Crisis of Conscience

  by Cheyannesways in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am on the last chapter of this book!

  i can hardly put it down.

  have you all read it?

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  gcc2k

  Randy says:

  Ray does not want any part of his book online, he has made that clear to me and others. But if you want to read it, you can also get it online at the Watchtower Store also:

  Just curious, what would be the reasons for that? To increase profits? Why not make it available for free?

  I checked this book out of the library years ago. As a fencesitter, I couldn't quite make the decision to bring it back, so it sits in my basement to this day. I really should return it. ("Hi, this is a little overdue...") I think I also have Anderson's book there too.
  I did buy Ray's second book but it seemed to drift off into an alternative religious direction, which is not something I was looking for at that time.
• 
  182

  Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from silentlambs (bill bowen):.

  on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.

  in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.

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  gcc2k

  144k, your original point is being lost in the shuffle. This thread is reminiscent of the one I started about the CBS/Silentlambs program where I declared that Bill Bowen had uttered what was at best a half truth (that anything an elder says is to be taken as the direct word of God).

  Your point seems to be that an expert witness involved in an active trial should not be discussing matters involving that trial. I agree with this point. I'm sure that Bill's mission (or mission in life?) is genuine and heartfelt, and perhaps it is the uphill battle that has him resorting to certain tactics that many do not agree with.

  This thread has now branched off into a few different topics, one of which is the way that congregations handle cases of molestation. On this matter, my thoughts are clear. If there is a sin committed, judge the sin according to congregation guidelines. However, if there is a crime committed, even if only in allegation, then the authorities should be involved.

  If Martha Stewart were an active JW, would she be disfellowshipped today? After her trial? After being found guilty in a court of law, yet still professing innocence, would she be disfellowshipped anyway? My guess is yes.

  One of the biggest problems is that elders are empowered (or think they are empowered) to act as judge and jury on almost any subject.
  This is an extremely dangerous position to be in (remember Spider Man? "with great power comes great responsibility"?) and some elders are able to be balanced and know when they are overstepping their bounds, yet others (many others) feed on the ego boost and spiral further and further away from their role as spiritual shepherds.
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  19

  The Watchtower’s Investments in Warfare Technology

  by l3gi0n in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this cant really be true, can it?

  the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.

  i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.

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  gcc2k

  If the Watchtower sold their shares withinthe last two years, it would have been recorded in the inside trading:

  I agree. I did note from the 10K that the Watchtower actually holds shares in Rand Cam Energy Corp, not REGI.
  Same thing I guess (in principle), but Rand Cam Energy Corp is not publically traded, so there would be no record of insider trading.

  James McCann could have sold the shares, but there would be a record of that, and there does not appear to be.

  From the 10K, the Watchtower holds slightly over 5 million shares. Nothing like that has been traded according to the records, and you have to consider the financial implications of that transaction - the stock would likely plummet to nothing, opening up the possibility for a hostile takeover or a buyout. The only "safe" way out would be for the Society to transfer the shares to a holding company or donate them somehow, perhaps back to the person who originally gave them to the Society.
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  19

  The Watchtower’s Investments in Warfare Technology

  by l3gi0n in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this cant really be true, can it?

  the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.

  i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.

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  gcc2k

  Here is the latest I found. The direct URL is: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299302000371/form10k.txt

  Or, go to http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/webusers.htm and enter the name of the company or stock symbol (REGI) and look for the latest 10-KSB.

  It says:

  SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
  WASHINGTON, D.C. 20549
  -------------------------------
  
  FORM 10-KSB
  
  ANNUAL REPORT PURSUANT TO SECTION 13 OR 15(d) OF
  THE SECURITIES ACT OF 1934
  
  For the Fiscal Year Ended April 30, 2002
  
  COMMISSION FILE NO. 0-23920
  
  -------------------------------
  
  REGI U.S., INC.
  -------------------------------

  Name Class A Shares Owned Percentage of
  Class A Shares
  Owned
  <S> <C> <C>
  John G. Robertson, Chairman of the Board 5,781,350 51.22%
  of Directors, President and Director (1) (2)
  The Watchtower Society (3) 5,073,200 44.94%
  James McCann (4) 5,073,200 44.94%
  Rand Energy Group Inc. (5) 5,073,200 44.94%
  Jennifer Lorette, Vice President and Director 85,500 *
  (6)
  James Vandeberg, Chief Operating Officer 76,000 *
  and Director (7)
  Patrick Badgley, Vice President, Research 75,000 *
  and Development and Director (8)
  
  ALL EXECUTIVE OFFICERS & 6,017,850 53.31%
  DIRECTORS AS A GROUP (FOUR
  INDIVIDUALS) (9)

  Rand Cam Engine Corp. is a privately held company whose stock is reportedly
  owned 50% by The Watchtower Society, a religious organization, 34% by James
  McCann and the balance by several other shareholders. Mr. McCann has indicated
  that he donated the shares held by The Watchtower Society to that organization
  but has retained a voting proxy for those shares. Accordingly, in Notes (3) and
  (4) above, beneficial ownership of the 5,073,200 shares registered in the name
  of Rand Energy Group Inc. has been attributed to The Watchtower Society and Mr.
  McCann. We believe it would be misleading and not provide clear disclosure to
  list as beneficial owners in the table the other entities and persons discussed
  in this paragraph, although a strict reading of Rule 13d-3 under the Securities
  Exchange Act of 1934 might require each such entity and person to be listed in
  the beneficial ownership table.

  All this information has already been posted. What I have just done is verified that at least as of April 30, 2002, the Watchtower was still holding REGI stock. The Watchtower's letter posted at http://www.geocities.com/wtgreed/article.htm is dated November 11, 2002. So, it is possible that the WT sold off their holdings in REGI sometime during 2002.

  Their latest form 10-QSB is http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/922330/000106299303000249/form10qsb.htm

  I guess we will have to wait for their 10-KSB to be filed, sometime in August going by their filing pattern.
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  19

  The Watchtower’s Investments in Warfare Technology

  by l3gi0n in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this cant really be true, can it?

  the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.

  i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.

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  gcc2k

  Gerard, is there any proof that the Society is still a shareholder in REGI or any of its companies?

  I checked the SEC's Edgar database, but only found REGI US (which curiously is having financial problems and borrowing money from REGI, who owns 45% of the company). REGI US does not seem to list the WT in any current filings, but I also did not see any other shareholders mentioned.