gcc2k

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Posts by gcc2k

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  207

  The Watchtower & the cigarette company

  by expatbrit in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications

  1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking

  *** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.

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  gcc2k

  Sixofnine again presents the most balanced view and asks: "The question is whether they were aware that the trust fund director, who btw buys stocks for probably hundreds of trust (or may even turn that over to a company such as Fidelity), was going to purchase Phillip Morris. Of course they did not." Good question. Personally, I do not view this issue as the huge deal some of you are making it out to be. If you told me that the WT held 10% of Phillip Morris directly, or even through a holding company (something like the REGI deal), I would be all over it. But all I see is that a trust was given to the WT, and the trust manager decided to invest in this company. Should the WT reject the entire trust over this? It's very possible that, after seeing the holdings of the trust, the WT asked them to immediately dispose of those shares. Now what's this about a security company?
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  207

  The Watchtower & the cigarette company

  by expatbrit in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications

  1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking

  *** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.

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  gcc2k

  I agree that this is noteworthy (thanks for the bump, I haven't been here in a month or so). However, I also agree with sixofnine and others that there is not enough information here to condemn the WT. If subsequent tax returns show that the WT is still a shareholder, even if indirectly, I'm prepared to add this to my list of WT flaws. But for now, it's possible that they were unaware of the holdings. Was this the first year that the trust was in effect and benefitting the WT?
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  48

  WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

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  gcc2k

  Excellent point Coffee. The JW counterpoint would be that it is necessary to have all these things, given the larger and more modern nature of the preaching work in our time.

  So, to rebutt that point, is there a religious group today that is closer to Jesus' standards, and enjoying some level of success? Although, showing growth is not necessarily a sign of God's favor.
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  37

  Whats the craziest thing you've done at the Kingdom hall?

  by yxl1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was given the "privilege" to open the kh early to switch on the heating.

  they even gave me my own set of keys.. every saturday night, me and another jw would drive to the kh with our amps and guitars and .

  jam until the early morning, using the stage and the kh's pa system.

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  gcc2k

  My first girlfriend and I used to make out outside the KH near her house. Neither of us knew the first thing about JWs, but we appreciated the quiet, clean location. :)
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  23

  You are SO not gonna believe this

  by LovesDubs in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  well prodigal jw husband came home last night from his jw field trip back up north.

  we had the house all cleaned and daddy was on the way home from the airport...but didnt show up.

  i knew immediately where he was.

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  gcc2k

  Got 2 words for you. Marriage counselor.
  You have bigger issues than just religion.
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  48

  WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

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  gcc2k

  I don't have a problem. It's called using the funds wisely. Would you rather they lose money? I'm glad they use the money wisely, if they make money out of a sale for to further on the preaching work. They go ahead and do that. Now if they were selling a property below it's value, then I would have a problem with it.

  I have a problem with selling a property to Babylon at a huge profit, and starting all over again.

  How do you know that the money is going to further the preaching work? Absolutely no disclosure is done at the top level.
  Perhaps if the Society made available their financial records, just as they do at a congregation level, these questions would not exist.

  Bought property for Hall in 1972 for $20,000. Remodeled building to suit purposes in '72. Remodelled in 1988 at a cost of $40,000. The name of the title was under the Society. We sold the Hall in 1993 at $120,000. Although the Hall was under the name of the Society, we did not return that money to them, instead we used it towards a new Hall with the Society's blessing. We built the new Hall in 1994 at a cost of $250,000. We financed through the Society the difference of $130,000 for 10 years at 3% interest. The first year, some of the congregations had financial hardships and we could not cover the payment for about 6 months. The Society said no problem. Not a bad lender, eh?

  Thanks for confirming that the Society does in fact charge interest on money that I contributed to the worldwide work.
  This practice, even if it is to cover inflation costs, is unscriptural.

  I will acknowledge the two examples you mention showing that the Society is not just in it for money, at least at face value.
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  48

  WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

  by MacHislopp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

  watchtower bible & t

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  gcc2k

  SOJ says:

  So just because the land and buildings are worth millions doesn't mean the Society should make a huge sale. These properties serve their purpose.

  True. But what is that purpose?

  Let's take an assembly hall. The society buys the property for $X. Using volunteer labor, the hall is built, and now has a total cost of $Y, arguably less than market value because of the cost of labor.

  10 years later, this hall is deemed outdated or too small, and is sold to Babylon the Great for $Z where Z is a large multiple of Y.
  The Society pockets the difference (putting it towards the worldwide work, of course).

  A site is chosen for a new assembly hall. The society buys the property for $X. Using volunteer labor, the hall is built, and now has a total cost of $Y, arguably less than market value because of the cost of labor...

  Do you have a problem with this cycle SOJ? I do.

  As far as the Pacific Educational Center (which I had never heard of), what could be the motivation and/or stated reasons for owning this property? To train missionaries going out into China perhaps?
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  19

  Letter Read Last Night

  by Intuit39 in

  1. social
  2. current

  hey bro, i just thought it may interest you to know that they read a letter last night describing how they need to build a new printing facility up at patterson that will be the size of two assembly halls.

  they will be getting all new printing machines to be shipped from all over the world, and they will need many volunteers for the project to be completed by january 2004. and we should all realize that this is going to be at a tremendous cost, the buildings alone should cost about 60,000,000 dollars.

  please start praying about what we can do, yada, yada, yada.

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  gcc2k

  Are you sure it was Patterson? I know that when the "Educational Center" began, the town was quite opposed to the project, and only agreed to it because they thought they would be getting some commercial benefit from the project. As I recall, that was the primary purpose of the Patterson Inn onsite - to generate taxable revenue for the town. In reality, not much revenue has come from there, as far as I know.

  Wallkill is a much more likely place to build a printing operation.
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  19

  The Watchtower’s Investments in Warfare Technology

  by l3gi0n in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  this cant really be true, can it?

  the papers could have been filed by someone trying to defame the wt.

  i know they are not as clean as they want us to belive, but this is just to much.

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  gcc2k

  Thanks for the clarification.
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  49

  Crisis of Conscience

  by Cheyannesways in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am on the last chapter of this book!

  i can hardly put it down.

  have you all read it?

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  gcc2k

  Randy says:

  Ray does not want any part of his book online, he has made that clear to me and others. But if you want to read it, you can also get it online at the Watchtower Store also:

  Just curious, what would be the reasons for that? To increase profits? Why not make it available for free?

  I checked this book out of the library years ago. As a fencesitter, I couldn't quite make the decision to bring it back, so it sits in my basement to this day. I really should return it. ("Hi, this is a little overdue...") I think I also have Anderson's book there too.
  I did buy Ray's second book but it seemed to drift off into an alternative religious direction, which is not something I was looking for at that time.