Posts by gcc2k

12

The SOB Pedophile is out of Jail !!!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

you may recall the earlier accounts of my son-in-law's father, a lifelong jw, who was turned into the authorities for molesting a young girl.

nbc dateline was interested in the story and followed it for a time, but did not use it because the jw elders did not get involved.

the man's trial was postponed several times ... when caught he had lied to the police and then confessed to the police ... all admissible because the police dotted their "i's" and crossed their "t's" ... but, in a surprise move, he turned around and plead not guilty ... then in another turn around, he finally confessed in a plea bargain agreement.

gcc2k

BIRTHDAYS: You must read all three verses to see it but Job 1:3, 3:1 and 3:3 prove faithful Job's kids celebrated their days of birth, meaning birthdays.

I've read all three verses and still don't see it. Please explain your reasoning?

job 1:3: He had seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she-asses, and very many servants; so that this man was the greatest of all the people of the east.
job 3:1: After this Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth.
2: And Job said:
3: "Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night which said, `A man-child is conceived.'

I applaud anyone who posts factual accounts, even if they prove the WT wrong, but I will call to task anyone who posts false or misleading information.

17

Pro UN Awake articles & NGO application forms

by Noumenon in

greetings - can anyone confirm for me whether these articles were officially submitted by the watchtower society to the un (to keep up their ngo membership), or did the un just use these articles and post them on their website without the society necessarily having officially submitted them?

i guess the wts had to have given their consent somehow, as a minimum.

what are the mechanics of proving one is upholding un ideals to renew their library card membership?

gcc2k

I personally wrote to the UN Librarian, Dana L. and received an email reply confirming that NGO status was not required for access to the UN library, and that policy had not changed since at least 1992. Since I'm not about to reveal my identity, that will not help any active witnesses, but feel free to repeat the effort. I have to say the UN is probably getting annoyed at all the extra work this issue has caused, in replying to witnesses worldwide. It would be simpler to release the WT's application for NGO status.

Again, I have to wonder, would that application be available under some freedom of information act? Or at least a blank copy of the application from the same year?

The link to the brazilian site has this blurb:

As it happens, it is not true. The WTS published a brochure in France which highlighted their work alongside the UN in Africa, pointing this out to try to add to their credibility. When an airplane crashed in Africa, owned by the UN and carrying JW missionaries, it was a matter of public record with the United States FAA. This was way more than a library card.

Does anyone know what brochure this is talking about, and/or the details of this plane crash?

22

UN/NGO issue quiz: How would you answer this JW apologist's comments?

by reporter in

gcc2k

The real proof is in the application itself. The UN, citing privacy reasons, will not release a copy of the paperwork on file, and the Society certainly won't. I wonder if those documents might be available under some kind of freedom of information act? I know that recently many cases which were thought to be sealed were ruled to be available, much to the dismay of the people mentioned therein :)

The other thing not mentioned is that the Society renounced NGO status ONLY after having been exposed in the media as being an NGO member. Also, the favorable articles written in recent Awake! magazines show that the Society was doing its best to prove that it was supporting the UN and maintain NGO status.

11

What if ... the Watchtower charged for books/magazines ???

by run dont walk in

i've been out of the borg for awhile, so help me out on this.. am i to assume that the watchtower went from charging for magazines to a donation system, simply because of paying taxes ???

didn't jesus say "return caesar's things to caesar".

so if the watchtower would of continued charging for magazines, so they would have had to pay a little tax, they still would have made a ton of money, and alot more then the donation system pulls in.

gcc2k

I was guessing you were referring to the Newsday piece, since no other hard numbers exist.

Where do you think Newsday is getting their figures from? Are they real? Estimated?

11

What if ... the Watchtower charged for books/magazines ???

by run dont walk in

i've been out of the borg for awhile, so help me out on this.. am i to assume that the watchtower went from charging for magazines to a donation system, simply because of paying taxes ???

didn't jesus say "return caesar's things to caesar".

so if the watchtower would of continued charging for magazines, so they would have had to pay a little tax, they still would have made a ton of money, and alot more then the donation system pulls in.

gcc2k

I've been told that the contributions/donations don't even come close to covering the cost of the literature, which is why the Society is trying to raise money in other ways.

Of course, it depends what "cost" is. If they are estimating the WT Library as being worth $75-100 as they did some years ago, they are grossly overinflating the cost.

There is nothing free about the literature and never will be. The word donation is merely a sales tax loophole used by the society. They're still one of the top 40 highest earning corporations in NYC and they're rivalled only by investment companies.

Can you substantiate that claim? I don't see how, since we have no insight into their real finances.

5

are JW's beliefs truly unique?

by gcc2k in

i'm sure someone has researched this, and if so perhaps you would save me some time.. a common jw reply when he/she is presented with problems that would seem to indicate that this cannot be "god's organization" is for him/her to say "but where else will i go?

who else has the truth?".

so, given a list of beliefs that are cornerstones of the "truth", what other religions share them?

gcc2k

I'm sure someone has researched this, and if so perhaps you would save me some time.

A common JW reply when he/she is presented with problems that would seem to indicate that this cannot be "God's organization" is for him/her to say "But where else will I go? Who else has the truth?"

So, given a list of beliefs that are cornerstones of the "truth", what other religions share them? I'll start a short list of beliefs that I would consider to be essential to "truth", taken mainly from the jw-media.org site. My guess is that many groups will have some of these beliefs, but no other religion will have all of them. I could be wrong.

God is not Jesus (no trinity)
Heavenly class vs earthly class (earth as a paradise)
Rejecting blood transfusions
Rejection of pagan holidays - Christmas, birthdays, etc
Actively preaching
Known for their love
Water baptism
Dead are conscious of nothing
Christians are no part of the world (reject politics, military roles)
Jesus had fleshly brothers

Thanks!

207

The Watchtower & the cigarette company

by expatbrit in

i: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications

1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking

*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.

gcc2k

Sixofnine again presents the most balanced view and asks: "The question is whether they were aware that the trust fund director, who btw buys stocks for probably hundreds of trust (or may even turn that over to a company such as Fidelity), was going to purchase Phillip Morris. Of course they did not." Good question. Personally, I do not view this issue as the huge deal some of you are making it out to be. If you told me that the WT held 10% of Phillip Morris directly, or even through a holding company (something like the REGI deal), I would be all over it. But all I see is that a trust was given to the WT, and the trust manager decided to invest in this company. Should the WT reject the entire trust over this? It's very possible that, after seeing the holdings of the trust, the WT asked them to immediately dispose of those shares. Now what's this about a security company?

207

The Watchtower & the cigarette company

by expatbrit in

i: some relevant quotes from watchtower publications

1: the position of the watchtower as regards smoking

*** jv 181 13 recognized by our conduct ***.

gcc2k

I agree that this is noteworthy (thanks for the bump, I haven't been here in a month or so). However, I also agree with sixofnine and others that there is not enough information here to condemn the WT. If subsequent tax returns show that the WT is still a shareholder, even if indirectly, I'm prepared to add this to my list of WT flaws. But for now, it's possible that they were unaware of the holdings. Was this the first year that the trust was in effect and benefitting the WT?

48

WTBS' Financial Empire...the tip of the iceberg!

by MacHislopp in

jw
friends

watchtower bible & t

gcc2k

Excellent point Coffee. The JW counterpoint would be that it is necessary to have all these things, given the larger and more modern nature of the preaching work in our time.

So, to rebutt that point, is there a religious group today that is closer to Jesus' standards, and enjoying some level of success? Although, showing growth is not necessarily a sign of God's favor.

37

Whats the craziest thing you've done at the Kingdom hall?

by yxl1 in

jw
friends

i was given the "privilege" to open the kh early to switch on the heating.

they even gave me my own set of keys.. every saturday night, me and another jw would drive to the kh with our amps and guitars and .

jam until the early morning, using the stage and the kh's pa system.

gcc2k

My first girlfriend and I used to make out outside the KH near her house. Neither of us knew the first thing about JWs, but we appreciated the quiet, clean location. :)