If the recent posts attributed to Mr. Bowen are indeed his words, then in my opinion, Mr. Bowen ought to change his name to Gilligan.
144thousand_and_one
JoinedPosts by 144thousand_and_one
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Update on Bill Bowens meeting with WT Reps:
by Brummie inan update on bill bowen & his meeting with the wt.....this is an eyeopener and a disgrace on the watchtower:.
i am sitting here looking out the tenth floor window of my watchtower paid for room at the manchester holiday inn.
the events of the day before are difficult to comprehend as i reflect on what happened.
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Your Username
by RAYZORBLADE inthere are many reasons why we choose a username.
on this forum, aside from some of the more obvious names associated with our avatars, what does your nickname/username mean or refer to?.
some are first names.
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144thousand_and_one
My username is meant to parody the concept of the 144,000. Who is keeping count of these folks? Arthur Andersen? Given the likelihood of error, I figured I should be entitled to an arithmetic immateriality variance to mitigate any inaccuracy in Witness counts of these "special" people.
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What happens when the Governing Body dies off?
by truthseeker inmost of the gb members are in their 80s and 90s.
with the passing of milton henschel (82), one wonders if they'll all live to be nearly 100, like freddy franz.. so let's take a theoretical look into the future, 11 years from now.. the year is 2014. the last gb member dies.
the faithful and discreet slave class are no longer in existence.
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144thousand_and_one
It will cease governing and start decomposing.
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Last night I asked about getting reinstated...
by Gadget inafter the meeting last night italked to some of the elders in the car park, and asked what more i neede to do to get reinstated.
they commended me on the things i've been doing (?
), and said the main point for reinstating would be how much contact i've been having with my fiance, who's still a wittness.
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144thousand_and_one
Tell the elders you need to speak to them in a health club, then take them in the steam room, lock the door, and let the effects of a diet of beans, broccoli, beef heart and Heineken flavor their nasal passages with a scent that symbolizes the value of the faith they follow.
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Please don't wear underwear...
by Princess in...with bike shorts!.
also not good was the older man wearing a black swim suit with orange flames, huge belly hanging over his waistline and no shirt.
this was his biking outfit.
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144thousand_and_one
Princess,
Bike shorts are designed to be worn without underwear. Quality bike shorts have special stitching in the seams to prevent chafing and other irritation. About 15 years ago, I thought I'd never wear bike shorts because I was too "cool" to wear those tights. Then I went on my first serious mountain bike ride, with my surf shorts and grape smugglers on. By the end of that ride, I had no skin on my butt. The seams of the underwear acted like sandpaper and severely irritated my posterior. I quickly lost my need to be "cool" and bought some high quality bike shorts.
I ride my mountain bike on mountain trails pretty regularly; about 3 x per week. My butt thanks me for using the proper shorts.
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Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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144thousand_and_one
Hawkaw said, "There are many more accounts as well as BOE letters that prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the WTS by its policies tried to hide these cases. The victims opinions are not biased. They are factual. They were told to be quite or face dfing. The pedophiles denied the accusations and nothing was done because the elder hide behind clerical privilege as instructed in BOE letters from the WTS and the two witness rule. These are facts and they are out there for all to see - Erica, Heidi, Berry girls etc."
This is a very dishonest effort to falsely characterize my previous statements. I have never accused the victims of these cases of being "biased"; please provide a quote to support this implication. You stated that the victims in these cases would agree with the characterization of the Watchtower as a "pedophile paradise." I responded that these victims would likely be biased in expressing such an opinion because the extreme harm they have suffered would likely taint their ability to be objective on this issue. I have never expressed an opinion here or anywhere else regarding the Watchtower's conduct in these cases, as I believe such an expression of an opinion would be inappropriate given my ignorance of the facts presented at trial.
"And quite frankly you by using a questionary style hinted that Bill may not be on the up and up. All I ask is that if those truly are your questions why didn't you contact Silentlambs and ask for a copy of the statements rather than making those questions public the way you did. If you don't get them then come back and tell the board. Last time I checked its a toll free call and seeing Bill doesn't post here unlike the certain Counsel you refer too then maybe you should contact him."
A question is not a hint. Go back and read the original comment. gcc2k said, " I'm sure that Bill's mission (or mission in life?) is genuine and heartfelt . . . " Seeing as how no evidence has been presented to support that assertion, I questioned its basis by asking whether anyone knew the extent of Bill's compensation, if any, from Silent Lambs, and whether there were audited financial statements available. Questioning the validity of an assertion for lack of basis does not equate to "hinting that Bill may not be on the up and up." You are the one providing such hints by your extraordinarily defensive posture on this issue.
Additionally, when I read a quote such as the one attributed to Bill Bowen at the inception of this thread, I can't help but question the motives of the person who made it. Sensationalizing the WT's use of routine discovery tactics and stating that these acts are for the benefit of Paul Berry (the convicted molestor) is dishonest, in my opinion. Their purported payment of Mr. Bowen's expenses are for their own benefit, not Mr. Berry's. According to the quote attributed to Mr. Bowen, he has already been convicted. The case at issue will have absolutely no effect on Mr. Berry's conviction. I'd like Mr. Bowen, you, or anyone else here to explain to us exactly what sort of benefit Mr. Berry would derive from the Watchtower escaping legal liability in this case.
"I think if you applied Calf. law to the Bowen/WTS service department call you would note that Bill as the PO was phoning on behalf of the elders in the congregation to see what would have to be done in the case. The WTS person was expecting Bill to pass the message on to the other elders and thus, even applying California law, Bill was still okay since the response was to be relayed ot others - http://www.rcfp.org/taping/"
Your interpretation of the California statute is absolutely inaccurate, but debating that point is moot since the matter is not subject to California law. Also, criminal liability is not the only issue; there are possible civil implications as well (e.g., invasion of privacy). But putting legalities aside, do you believe it is proper to use deceit to accomplish your objectives? .
I think it's safe to assume that both of us would like to see the Watchtower punished for the grief we've personally experienced or seen others experience. However, it appears we differ on the approach that should be used to accomplish that objective. I don't believe ethics should be compromised to achieve this goal or any other goal.
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Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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144thousand_and_one
Hawkaw,
You said, "What Bill did is just the same as taking notes of your conversation. Its called a recollection of the facts and is far from being dishonest and in fact can be used in a court of law. It is quite legal for one party to tape or record another party without their knowledge. What is illegal unless a warrant is obtained is for a third party like the government to listen in on a conversation between two parties."
Nothing could be further from the truth. In California, taping a telephone conversation without the consent of the other party is a criminal offense. Many other states have laws similar to California in this regard. Even if it isn't illegal, I disagree with your position about it not being dishonest. If someone did that to me, I would use every legal means at my disposal to punish them for it. They would definitely regret it.
You added, "As for calling it a pedophile paradise - I think most of the 17 victims who were brutilized by Fitzswater and the 42 who were abused by that sicko in Oregon would tend to agree with Bill's comment."
That's not surprising, but I think it's safe to say these individuals are biased in their opinion as they have suffered great harm and are unlikely to be able to look at this issue in an objective manner. It's like asking the families of murder victims to decide the fate of the defendant. Probably 99.9% will choose death.
Finally, you said, "As for your comments on compensation or lack of audited booking practices comments I want to add this - Even though I am not a member of Silentlambs I am not sure if you should have stated what you did until you asked for a copy of their financial statements. . . . Hinting at accusations like that without backing them up is kinda ... well ... not the greatest thing to do .... especially when I watched the man spend 10 grand of his own money at one time on this issue. "
Let's go back to my statement you responded to. gcc2k said, "I'm sure that Bill's mission (or mission in life?) is genuine and heartfelt, and perhaps it is the uphill battle that has him resorting to certain tactics that many do not agree with." I responded, "I'm not convinced of that. I wonder what sort of compensation, if any, Mr. Bowen is receiving in connection with the silent lambs. Do they issue audited financial statements?" I didn't accuse Mr. Bowen of anything in this regard, but apparently you have in your own mind. The questions I raised are valid, notwithstanding your misguided, unsuccessful effort to falsely characterize them otherwise. The fact that most of us here are no longer Jehovah's Witnesses does not mean we shouldn't be skeptical of others who seem to be aligned with our views. A great amount of skepticism was directed at an attorney on this board who offered her services to victims of the cases at issue in this thread. Rather than being offended, the attorney involved took action to allay the concerns. This is an open forum and I hope these questions are answered in a similar manner.
I really could care less what you think is a "great" thing to do. I call 'em as I see 'em.
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Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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144thousand_and_one
"144k, your original point is being lost in the shuffle. This thread is reminiscent of the one I started about the CBS/Silentlambs program where I declared that Bill Bowen had uttered what was at best a half truth (that anything an elder says is to be taken as the direct word of God)." - - gcc2k gcc2k, I too was disappointed with at least some of what was presented in that show. Sensationalism can backfire and hurt the cause one is trying to promote. Referring to the JW organization as a "pedophile paradise" seemed a little extreme to me, given the fact that I never heard of any molestation cases in our area. Certainly, there are molestors in the org, and it is probably true that the Watchtower's policies have facilitated their ability to escape prosecution and/or repeat their crimes with other children. I find it hard to believe that the problem is so pervasive as to warrant the characterization as a "pedophile paradise." Similarly, I found the phone call to the WT legal department to be rather unsavory. The problem showcased by the 20/20 show is certainly a serious problem and one deserving of media attention and very aggressive scrutiny, but I believe that open dishonesty (not informing the person on the line of the true nature of the call) does not reflect well upon the individual trying to make his/her point. Overall, I did think the program was a good development and brought attention to a problem that the general public is for the most part entirely ignorant of.
"I'm sure that Bill's mission (or mission in life?) is genuine and heartfelt, and perhaps it is the uphill battle that has him resorting to certain tactics that many do not agree with." I'm not convinced of that. I wonder what sort of compensation, if any, Mr. Bowen is receiving in connection with the silent lambs. Do they issue audited financial statements? Being a JW taught me to question everything; don't be too quick to buy into someone or something without asking the appropriate questions, notwithstanding the appearance of an individual/entity of being aligned with a cause yo believe in. I guess the JW experience made me a very suspicious guy.
"On this matter, my thoughts are clear. If there is a sin committed, judge the sin according to congregation guidelines. However, if there is a crime committed, even if only in allegation, then the authorities should be involved." I agree with this statement. The elders ought to immediately pass allegations regarding child abuse/molestation to law enforcement. Crimes of this nature are so heinous that they deserve a PROFESSIONAL response, rather than the bumbling of lay persons. This sort of crime leaves scars that last a lifetime. Allowing elders to decide whether law enforcement will be involved in investigating cases of this nature trivializes the seriousness of these crimes and demonstrates an absolute disregard for the welfare of children. How many children have to grow up to hate the Watchtower before they learn to exhibit at least a modicum of compassion towards the children who are forced to live this socially deviant lifestyle?
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Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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144thousand_and_one
JT,
I'm not sure why you chose the large fonts, the persuasiveness of your comments is not commensurate with the size of the font.
As for my comments about trying cases on web pages, what distinguishes the examples you cited is the fact that the folks involved in the discussions you referred to are not expert witnesses who will be used by a party to the case. Public comments by an expert witness regarding the subject matter of his/her case can end up detrimentally affecting their client's case.
"I don't know" - - JT
That is obvious, but it hasn't stopped you from typing, has it?
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Watchtower to pay for Silentlambs trip
by Dogpatch infrom silentlambs (bill bowen):.
on thursday of this week world wide work money will again be spent to protect a pedophile.
in addition it will also be spent to pay money to a disfellowshipped person in order to find a way to prevent them from assisting the court case of abuse survivors.
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144thousand_and_one
Sword,
By the way, if it's all about "faith," then why does the society take any legal action to defend itself? Shouldn't they use the same "faith" they ostensibly expect of others to protect their interests? Don't they have faith that Jehovah will intervene?