Posts by asleif_dufansdottir

39

Cruel Hearted People

by EXMS in

i can't believe how people in the "organization" can be so cold hearted.. .

last october, i got an invitation to a friends wedding where i grew up in portland, oregon.

i now live in san diego, california.

asleif_dufansdottir

Why invite someone just to make them unwelcome?

Well DUH. To get a gift and the snowshoes.

126

Atlas Shrugged Part 1

by littlerockguy in

went and saw atlas shrugged part 1 at the rave theater here in little rock friday night.

i was surprised it showed here since it had such a limited showing.. anyway i was really surprised at how well it was done on such a limited budget and a very tight and short schedule to have the whole picture done and it really followed the book very well.

i went to the 7:15 showing and the theater was packed but but not sold out.

asleif_dufansdottir

You as an individual should NOT be in the business of BELIEVING me or anybody else. You need to dig deep

and figure out who is lying, who is telling the truth and come up with a reason for each.

I can't decide if YOU saying that to ME is hysterically funny, or pathetically sad. Probably both.

You don't know anything about me or what I believe. You seem to be making a tremendous amount of assumptions about that based on a sliver of evidence. The only thing you know about me is that I objected to your mischaracterization of "American Indians". In addition, you seem to conclude that I am a liberal academic, based the fact that I don't agree with you, and on my vocabulary and writing style.

Whatever. I don't really care what you think, or what you believe. My only point was that your "facts" (beliefs) about "American Indians" are in error. You have obviously chosen Who you are going to believe. And it's not me. No skin off my nose.

126

Atlas Shrugged Part 1

by littlerockguy in

went and saw atlas shrugged part 1 at the rave theater here in little rock friday night.

i was surprised it showed here since it had such a limited showing.. anyway i was really surprised at how well it was done on such a limited budget and a very tight and short schedule to have the whole picture done and it really followed the book very well.

i went to the 7:15 showing and the theater was packed but but not sold out.

asleif_dufansdottir

My point was, that part of your "argument" was so bereft of accurate information that it damages your credibility. In other words, you're so full of crap your eyes are brown, and I'm not going to believe anything ELSE you might try to tell me without massive substantiation.

"They never invented the wheel, metalurgy, schools, technology or managed to escape dependency on bison. Women were practically slaves in their society which was also quite brutal (in a Spartan way) with children."

Brief one word summation: Bullshit.

Oh! Sorry. I didn't realize native americans HAD invented the wheel, matalurgy, schools, technology, etc.

Your own education on these matters is obviously vastly superior to mine.

Do you mind if I humbly request your sources on refuting my statement, please? Thanks ever so much!

I am very, very far from an expert on the subject. I consider myself to be someone with just casual interest in the subject. Compared, of course, to someone whose opionion is so far from the facts that it must surely be the product an act of will, I must sound like a supreme expert.

Women in Native America: the Iroquois were about the most matriarchal of the tribes as far as we know, women among the Navajo and Cherokee owned the property, and it passed down thru the mother's line.

Children: at least some Sioux were reported to be horrified at how horribly whites treated children

Technology: What do you define as "technology"? some Native tribes had irrigation, built large structures, had advanced calendar systems, mathematics (apparently the Mayans were the first to have a concept of 0), in terms of agriculture they domesticated corn, potatoes, turkeys, cotton...

Education: if you mean did they have buildings where salaried professionals taught everyone between the ages of 5-18, then no...and neither did most other cultures up until VERY recently (very few Europeans attended "schools" at the time the New World was "discovered"). Did the different tribes have different systems of passing on their knowledge to later generations? yes Did it work? yes

Metalurgy: New World archaeologists have found gold artifacts dating back a couple of thousand years, and copper was in use more than double that long; Did they have steel? No (Jared Diamond fan, are you?)

Bison: the Plains tribes made heavy use of bison because it was an abundant resource (this seems quite sensible to me). Tribes who didn't live in or travel to the plains didn't. Plains tribes didn't "escape dependency" on bison because the herds were decimated in less than a generation, and they did not have the time, opportunity, nor were allowed the ability (once they were forced onto reservations) to adapt.

The Wheel: Oh yes the big favorite argument. Ya got me there. New World tribes didn't invent the wheel. Maybe they didn't see the point, as they didn't have any draft animals. They managed to travel and trade across an entire hemisphere without it.

In the first place Native Americans are not one unified homenous group. "American Indians", as a group, did not "do" or "fail to do" ANY of these things.

Sigh. When we speak about Christians or Muslims or Canadians or Latinos do you hold this same standard of prissy nit-picking precision? Or, is it just barely possible that we relax our rigorous delineations in casual conversation as a shorthand in communication?

Actually, "we" do tend to hold discussions of other groups "to the same standard of prissy nit-picking precision." If someone came on this or any other board and made pronouncements along the lines of "All Christians have the exact same understanding of and belief in the Trinity" or "All Christians follow the Pope" or "All Canadians adore hockey" or "all Latinos are short brown people who eat tacos"...then I have no doubt those statements would be quickly refuted (and rightly so).

I can't help it that you do not understand that what you said is the equivalent of saying "The sun rises in the West, so that proves my point."

21

Pangs of Conscience - June 2011 KM

by dozy in

jw
friends

there is an article in the latest kingdom ministry about counting time spent in the ministry.

one comment surprised me - it says that counting time wrongly can lead to "pangs of conscience".

a bit of an ott expression , i can't help thinking.. the only pangs the local pioneers are concerned about here are hunger pangs as they head to dunkin donuts for a 40 minute "break".

asleif_dufansdottir

During the very brief time I pioneered, this was a huge problem for me and I tried without success to get a straight answer on it. We were a very rural congregation and DH and I lived an hour away, over dirt roads, from the hall.

Many times I would pick up another sister who lived even farther, to go in service. So I would spend an hour and a half or more *in the car on the way to the service meeting*, and then the same on the way home! It became obvious to me that counting time "from the first door to the last" did not REMOTELY express the time and effort it was taking me. In fact, I don't think it would have been physically possible for me to get 90 hours a month in that manner! The advice the elders gave? "start your time before you leave home"...SERIOUSLY? How am I supposed to do that? Make a phone call to someone at 6:30-7:00 in the morning? Stop at the farm down the road on my way out and back so I can 'count the whole time'?

It just seemed totally silly that I could 'count the time' by following such a 'strain the gnat' kind of method...and not if I didn't. And of course this was one of those subjects (because of the geographic situation of our hall) that you couldn't really ask people's opinion about or 'what do you do' because following 'the letter of the law' was so obviously unrealistic but no one wanted to be caught saying that, or admitting what they actually DID, in case they got told they couldn't do it any more.

This subject was one of the wierdest aspects of being an active JW...considering how every other part of our lives was micromanaged by Society directives, they sure were vague on this one...for obvious reasons!

126

Atlas Shrugged Part 1

by littlerockguy in

went and saw atlas shrugged part 1 at the rave theater here in little rock friday night.

i was surprised it showed here since it had such a limited showing.. anyway i was really surprised at how well it was done on such a limited budget and a very tight and short schedule to have the whole picture done and it really followed the book very well.

i went to the 7:15 showing and the theater was packed but but not sold out.

asleif_dufansdottir

Quoting Terry:

"They never invented the wheel, metalurgy, schools, technology or managed to escape dependency on bison. Women were practically slaves in their society which was also quite brutal (in a Spartan way) with children."

Brief one word summation: Bullshit.

In the first place Native Americans are not one unified homenous group. "American Indians", as a group, did not "do" or "fail to do" ANY of these things. More than a few tribes were matriarchal. Several lived a settled, agrarian existence. Only Plains tribes (which Terry seems to think are "all American Indians") cared about bison, and even they farmed.

They had technology, and social structures, and ways of life that were sufficient for their needs to survive, and thrive in quite diverse environments. They were neither innocent children, demonic savages, or enlightened beings. They were just people. People who got screwed over by an invading force...as people the globe over have been screwed over by invading forces since time began. It just so happend that this happened within the last few hundred years instead of a thousand, or two thousand, or three thousand years ago.

Only someone who is grossly ignorant about the entire subject of Native peoples would state things that are at once both blatantly offensive and staggeringly wrong. All your other arguments are suspect on that basis.

89

Want to quit Bible study

by confusedstudent in

jw
friends

hi i was just looking for some advice.

i have been studying with the jw's for over a year now, and attended 2 memorials and the district/assembly conventions.

at first, and up until very recently i truly believed what i was learning was the truth.

asleif_dufansdottir

Confusedstudent is no longer cofused!

First let me say I am SO IMPRESSED WITH YOU. You were far enough along in a JW study to become an unbaptised publisher, and you STILL listened to your own inner voice, your instincts and your common sense! Do you realize how rare that is? You deserve a commendation for that. You even realize that your study began under false pretenses (ie-'just wanting to discuss the Bible') and the the goal the entire time has been to indoctrinate you into joining. JWs are never really honest about that with new studies.

If you (or your husband) know anything about psychological manipulation techniques, you might now be looking back at your study, and the study materials, and seeing how very carefully and quietly the Entire Process is geared to teach you to STOP thinking for yourself and to get you, ever so slowly, to start doing exactly what the WT and local JWs tell you to do in every aspect of your life.

You would be amazed, horrified and sickened to know some of the things that individual JWs did, or allowed to be done, even when their inner voice was telling them it was wrong...because the Organization said they must. JW mothers have stayed with men who physically and sexually abused them and their children because he was 'the head of the household'. JW parents have kept quiet about other JWs who molested their children, rather than go to police, because they were told to go to 'the authorities of Satan's world' would 'bring reproach on Jehoval"...Parents have let children die without medical care.

I am sure the JWs that you innocently considered your loving friends are astounded and angry right now. They thought they had your hooks into you Deep. They still think they have enough influence on you to pressure and guilt you into 'getting back into the program.' Obviously they're so blinded by the 'culture' of the Society that they can't see that their actions right now are just proving to you that you made the right choice.

Anyway, I wanted to encourage you. I know it's easy to feel bad about the WHOLE situation...that you were sucked into something at a very weak point in your life (and let me offer you my condolences on the loss of your children), that for any length of time you allowed their influence to cause problems in your life and marriage...even that you might be 'hurting' them by stopping the study or 'wasting their time' (you didn't btw). I mean the whole mess just kinda sucks, doesn't it?

So many things for you to potentially kick yourself for?? Well don't! I'm a lot older than you and I can tell you that while the whole thing kinda stinks right now, in the first place you are FAR from being the only person this has happened to (they're very practiced at this) and you have learned some very valuable lessons...about life and about yourself. Lessons about common sense, and the importance of listening to your inner voice, and the good news that you really do have the guts to stand up for yourself and your family and face an uncomfortable situation and deal with it! You will be a better person, wife, mom, and friend from this...you've gained some insight and wisdom and you will be able to advise and comfort others who are having messy experiences in their lives.

Plus, can I suggest in the future you warn people about your experiences with JWs when the topic of them or other high-control, problematic 'religious' groups come up? And tell your husband "thank you for your service" from me?

Liz

59

Descended from animal? Explain language.

by StopTheTears in

jw
friends

if, as evolutionists claim, all of mankind evolved from the same primitive life-source, then how did we end up with 7,000 different languages?

did one gorilla get angry at another gorilla and decide to start a new language?

i'm intrigued to know.. .

asleif_dufansdottir

You know, what astounds me about the original post is that STT apparently thinks that, among all the immense diversity of aspects of life on this planet...somehow....it's the diversity of *language* that triumphantly proves creationism.

uhhh....

Yeah, we can believe that all those millions of species of plants, animals, bugs etc were the product of biological evolution. But when confronted with human language...boy...we just have to admit *that* has to be a product of supernatural intervention.

Only someone who had either never been around animals or made a concerted effort to not pay any attention to them whatsoever, would claim that animals don't communicate with each other. Just because they don't have the physical apparatus we have for vocal communication we do doesn't mean they don't have communication skills.

31

It's sundown on 17 April and there's a full moon

by Broken Promises in

... and i'm cooking dinner and planning a nice evening at home.

.

what are you planning to do tonight?.

asleif_dufansdottir

Know where I Wish I was...dancing around a fire to the drumming at a pagan gathering. No, I'm not kidding. I love full moons!

31

The following is a test of the JW logical response system. This is only a test.......

by Mr. Falcon in

i was going to write this whole big thing regarding something that recently happened to me, but i wasn't sure how much feedback it would attract.

therefore, i'll just ask this question:.

has anyone here ever voiced displeasure or experienced difficulties due to clearly rude, incompetant, greedy or otherwise inappropriate behavior from fellow jws, only to be told that you are simply being "tested"?.

asleif_dufansdottir

Violia,

Yes I definitely remember a talk exactly like that. We've been out danged near 20 years (OMG! has it really been that long?) so when I heard it it was definitely a long time ago.

I also remember hearing (over and over) "is it a STUMBLING stone, or a STEPPING stone??"

If it was a Catholic study telling out about the experience in THEIR church, they'd tell them it was evidence Catholics didn't 'have the truth'! No such judgement on the Society!

74

How many received the memorial invitation?

by IMHO in

jw
friends

how well is this territory being covered?.

how many on here (active jws excluded) received an invitation?.

asleif_dufansdottir

I did.

Despite the fact that I wrote a Do Not Call letter to the local hall and cc'd Bethel when we moved here 8 years ago, the last few years we have been getting called on by what I assume are elders. Depending on our mood, we either don't answer, or tell them we're a DNC and that we're owner occupied (we live near a university in a townhouse complex). Once I did accept literature from a young girl when I answered the door without realizing who they were.

This time I found the Memorial invite stuck in the door. I completely lost patience. Conveniently, the hall's address was listed on this particular piece of literature (evil grin).

I took a black magic marker and wrote "DO NOT CALL means DO NOT CALL" on the front of the invite. Then I flipped it over and wrote "I have requested not to be called on in writing to your hall and your headquarters in New York. I have told you in person. WHAT DOES IT TAKE???" On the inside I wrote "[my address] is a DO. NOT. CALL. Do not call to leave literature, or to see if we are still not interested, or on the pretense of seeing if different people live there. Just Do. Not. Call"

My husband thought I was being silly. But I feel better. It remains to be seen if they get my Very Subtle Hint. I'm sure they were horrified and offended that I defaced their precious publication. Buttheads.