Posts by 2bfound

33

144 thousand

by jody in

hey i need help.

i am stuck trying to explain when the 144 thousand without any refference material.

i am stuck in a remote lacal debating a couple of things and this topice came up.

Very well said SJ, spoken(written) like a true Christian. I don't see why some people still find a way to dismiss a literal translation where the text demands it.
I've followed your threads, elsewhere. In a sentence, (2 cor 13:5) good to have you here brother.
May we all find ourselves slaves of the Almighty.
In His name
Rb.

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

Zep, I know what you are saying but you have to be specific. Are you saying that bats, as a species cannot interbreed? Give an example.
Micro-evolution speaks of adaptability of say virus’ developing immunity or defenses.
Macro-evolution speaks of (in a nut shell) a lizard suddenly giving way to a winged semi-bird.
Macro-evolution is a jump of major mutations without any gradual steps or transitional ancestry. Very convenient for the dogmatic evolutionist, since it would free him/her from having to produce an ancestral line of descendants or any kind of transitional intermediate.
It’s at best wishful thinking at worst no science at all.
Good book, J.Wells “icons of evolution”. “Darwin on trial” is authored by Phillip E. Johnson, Berkeley professor of law.
Zep, I do respect the fact that you have taken the time to research and know what you believe and or are looking for answers. I have great respect for people like that, even if we disagree. Many times I will meet a person on both sides of the debate that cannot tell you what they believe or why.
I like taking the time to research not only the theory of beginnings, but also all aspects of Christianity, reliability, so-called contradictions, cults and religions, etc. I can only conclude that Christianity answers all these questions and more.
I commend your search and hope you find answers.
I personally do not subscribe to a creator that employed evolution (macro) as his agent of creation, because it goes against the biblical account of creation.

Appendages that seem useless to us now, does not mean they have no purpose. Such was the case with the earlobe according to Darwin, and has been also the case for some of our organs, which we recently found functionality.

I just can’t get away from the fact Zep, that evolution as it stands provides no reasonable answers for some of the greater questions.
Think of this Zep, single cell life forms start replicating themselves and then, all move to a sexual reproductive system. Now, how was it possible that chance coordinated this as to have two single cell life forms simultaneously produce sexual organs that would not only produce life but that would seem tailor- made to fit each other. This sounds more like a miracle than chance. You have you see what Professor Brandon Carter of Cambridge U. proposed the “anthropic principle” or the “just so universe”. A universe to precise to be chance.
Evolution violates a number of physical laws that just cannot be ignored.
Please Zep, check out those web sites.
Regards
Rb.

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

Zep, sure thing, I recommend three books #1 Denton’s “Evolution a theory in crisis” microbiologist Lehigh University. #2 Behe’s “Darwins black box” also a microbiologist, this book is good if you have a technical bent. #3 Johnson’s “Darwin on trial”.

Like design does not mean a common ancestor, that points out to a single designer.
But again we creationist do not reject micro-evolution a evolution within kind for variety and adoptability. Micro-evolution of kinds giving way to other kinds is what we reject.

Stephen J. Gould in Natural History magazine said:
“The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our text books have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; The rest is inference, however reasonable, not evidence of fossils.

There are many books out there and new ones in review.
Sites check out: www.origins.org www.probe.org and www.answersingenesis.org just to name a few.

If you made up your mind Zep, I’m afraid you won’t find answers. Conversion happens in the heart and not in the mind, and in as much as Christianity is a logical belief, if you reluctant then nothing will persuade you.

Yes God created all in the order and let me underscore order that you see, a precise order and design that chance cannot produce.
We know that time, space and matter had a beginning. We know that cause has an agent and that would point to a creator.
Or so it would say: “In the beginning God created”; otherwise it would say: In the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded!!!…???

P.S. there is no junk DNA check out last weeks USA today

Regards
Rb

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

Well guys, it is true that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and while I've read Richard Dawkins' Blind watchmaker and Gould's many evolutionary expose'. It just happends that they leave more doubts than answers. Still to this day NO evolutionist will give a working model of just how evolution began. You get fragments of the story. While problems like genders and ancestral trees af say insects are void. Transitional forms are an even greater problem; Not just the lack there of but you have an animal in transition that at one point in its generational transition is neither fit for the environment it is entering or the one it is leaving, making it then the weakest in a species and thus easy prey. That throws natural selection out the window.
I guess we can agree to disagree, but I just can't avoid the obvious. Evolution is defunct.
But aside from all those objections, I'd say evolution is the most viable answer.
Regards
Rb.

32

I'm a new study, unsure a little uncertain. Help??

by Meow921 in

i recently started doing some studying of jehovahs witnesses, and i find most everything so logical, and the people involved have been so nice to me.

i'm 30, and currently am not associated with any denomination.. what i don't understand is how the word "cross" got translated into the bible if it's not right.

aren't we supposed to believe the bible?.

2bfound

Theo, I like your last comment:

"Why then do they still celebrate the Lord's supper every year? Surely if he returned in 1914 then they should have stopped then?"

I doubt you will get a reply here? I like your site very much too.
Are you a former JW?
God bless

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

Steve, hey I’m not insulted or angry. Did I come across that way? No man, I guess I’m a little emotional (time for my medication).
I’m not so cynical to believe that if I was taught one thing that later in life I found to be incorrect then all is to be doubted.
I was also a dogmatic evolutionist and as I studied it more in depth, probed, collected papers, articles, etc; I saw the limits of a defunct theory.
I’ve sat in on scientific debates between respected creationist and evolutionist. I know that the paleontology community is funded by grants, and grants are given by corporations with images to keep.
I’m not saying that there is a conspiracy out there, but certainly an agenda.
I can’t help and see the teleological nature of all things. I can’t help but see some dissention in the scientific community. The voices of some top scientist questioning the Darwinian theory of biogenesis. I personally know a college professor in the Illinois area who before becoming a Christian wrote two college text books on evolution that are in use to this day.
I quote some heavy weights in the scientific community:
Dr Arno Penzias, PhD Physics Columbia University
1962 and 1978 Nobel Prize for Physics
“The majority of Physicist doesn’t want to accept the observational evidence that the universe was created despite the fact that the creation of the universe is supported by all observable data astronomy has produced so far”.

Like him are many more, and many before him have been Christian Scientist:
Scientists who were Christians:
Deceased:
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Blaise Pascal
Isaac Newton
Michael Faraday
James Clerk Maxwell
William Henry Perkin
George Stokes
Lord Kelvin
J. J. Thomson
Charles Coulson
Living:
Norman March
Robert Griffiths
Richard Bube
Donald Page
Allan Sandage
David Cole
Francis Collins
John Polkinghorne
S. William Pelletier
Andrew Bocarsly
James Tour
Egotistical to believe in the product of a creator? On the contrary to think we are not is the height of arrogance and egotism.

Your site? Interesting but I’ve seen many so called missing links come and go. I will wait and see. I can’t help but remember the breaking news of the missing link a few years ago between the dinosaurs and birds. Was that not a slap in the face!
Steve I just got to ask, all these men many leaders in their field, some Nobel Prize winners. All bible believing creationist. What do you know that these men ignore?
Regards
Rb

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

A most interesting website. the horse family tree web site, how most convincing. that pretty much cleared up the controversy, I'm sold I'm burning my bible as you read!
Steve, I was wondering though before I abandoned myself to the doctrine of macro-evolution, the site you pointed to made reference to a geological column. Where in our globe is this example of the geological column layers displayed?
Speak to us about dating methods, steve. I would point you to an article in "scientific america" about the problematic events in the dating of the "lucy" find; under the title "The problem with dating an older woman".
How about those aluding transitional forms? Including those of man? Wher are they?
Reasons magazine in July of 1997 published a eye-opening article that claimed that a number of sophisticated scientist are now chellenging the views of evolution.
Francis crick, Nobel prize winner and co-discoverer of the double-helical shape of DNA wrote of the complexity of DNA and so concluded that evolution never happened, instead we were seeded by an alien race(directed panspermia).
Do I believe in a Creator, namely God who created adam and Eve? YES.
I cannot believe in evolution because:
1- no fossil record of transitional forms
2-irreducibly complex life forms, with no mechanism to construct them
3- Cambrean period shows almost all vertibrate ammals suddenly with no ancestral tree
4- DNA
Steve you say you believe in non mater becoming matter then matter becoming living matter, becoming a cell then a frog then a man.
That sound so familiar, ah yes... a princess kisses a frog and it turns into a prince. You are right it is toooooo funny.
steve in short I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution.
Regards
Rb

50

Evolution Anyone???

by Steve Josef in

i read alot of posts and it seems that though you all (or most) have left the kh, you still believe in a "father" or a "jesus" that created everything.

since i too and one that left the kh, i have delved into science and have come the conculsion that god does not exist in a spirit form, but is life itself.

the "creator" of all things is evolution.

2bfound

Evolution is the greatest farse there is man.
You jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire.
get saved man

2

Daniel chapter 4 "Dishonest interpretati...

by 2bfound in

what is wrong with this picture?

there are a few verses in the bible that speak of an earthly kingdom with an earthly king that comes into judgment by god but later is restored.

this is what the text says and this is all that it says.. to infer more is to ask for trouble, confusion, and disharmony of the whole of scripture.. what verses am i referring to?

2bfound

Jhawk,
Yes in many respects Daniel is a book that applied to that particular time, then you also have many prophetic properties that parallel the book of revelation and do apply to us today.
The scriptures are clear and are not written in code or for private interpretation(2pet 1:20-21). The bible is written in a language that is simple to understand, hard to follow, and life giving if and that is a big if, you receive(John 1:12). But as scripture says, we can know what is truth (1John 2:27).
As to unfufilled prophecies? Deut 18:22.
Dates, advents I think scripture is clear, and no need to go beyond that. All eye shall see Him coming (Lk 21:27, Mrk 13:26, Zech 12:10, Rev 1:7).
Jhawk, I think that you might agree that scripture is in fact clear.
Blessings

2

Daniel chapter 4 "Dishonest interpretati...

by 2bfound in

what is wrong with this picture?

there are a few verses in the bible that speak of an earthly kingdom with an earthly king that comes into judgment by god but later is restored.

this is what the text says and this is all that it says.. to infer more is to ask for trouble, confusion, and disharmony of the whole of scripture.. what verses am i referring to?

2bfound

What is wrong with this picture? There are a few verses in the bible that speak of an earthly kingdom with an earthly king that comes into judgment by God but later is restored. This is what the text says and this is all that it says.
To infer more is to ask for trouble, confusion, and disharmony of the whole of scripture.
What verses am I referring to? (Dan 4:1-37). Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the tree.
The writer gives us the meaning of the dream and only mentions an earthly kingdom. No mention of a celestial kingdom. Why does Daniel not say that the dream also speaks of a celestial kingdom? Because it is NOT what the dream means. Then there is the interpretations of times and half times, which refers to years. One time equals one year.
Every time the bible mentions times as a measure of time, it means a year.
If I’m not mistaken there are 8 verses that refer to times as a measurement of time. 7 in Daniel, namely Dan 3:19, 4:16, 4:23, 4:25, 4:32, 7:25, 12:7 and Rev12:7. All meaning one year equal to one time.
I would warn against manipulating the scriptures to fit our own theology, namely to fit a date that has no support in scripture.
Blessings