Sounds kind of like the Bush administration.....
kelsey007
JoinedPosts by kelsey007
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Keeping an open mind about different religions
by Elsewhere in.
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sometimes i find myself struggling to keep an open mind about different religions... this one is really pushing it for me..
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Anyone taken legal action in DF'ing?
by startingover ina close friend of mine, in fact a lurker here, got a call last night inviting him to a jc meeting, accused of apostasy.
he would like to avoid this because of the things it would complicate, and would like to just be left alone.
i know in the past i have read comments of some who have threatened legal action in this situation.
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kelsey007
I hope that you were hungry to begin with! Hate to think this subject gave you that great a hunger-
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Anyone taken legal action in DF'ing?
by startingover ina close friend of mine, in fact a lurker here, got a call last night inviting him to a jc meeting, accused of apostasy.
he would like to avoid this because of the things it would complicate, and would like to just be left alone.
i know in the past i have read comments of some who have threatened legal action in this situation.
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kelsey007
Way back when I was going through my original issues with the WT I consulted with a lawyer who was also a close family friend. After all was said and done he simply asked- "Why would you fight so hard to remain in an organization that you do not agree with and one that no longer wants you as a member?"
When I expressed my concern over the shunning practice and losing family and friends he responded that the best bet was to hold my opinions silent so as to remain in good standing with the WT in order to maintain my relationships. He stated that if my feelings about the org were so strong that given the legal circumstances of religious orgs that shunning would be part of the sacrifice I must suffer in taking my stand. No law can force a organization or an individual to associate with anyone. You may be allowed in the building but no one can force anyone to talk to you or invite you to their party.
Edited by - kelsey007 on 22 November 2002 12:52:9
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Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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kelsey007
Trauma Hound- I never mentioned your name- I do not recall you having been part of the things that were said. As a supporter of abuse victims who has not lied about others you should not take offense. There are many good hearted people- well meaning- that show great support for the silent lambs program. It is too bad that some who are taking the lead in the program have chosen to use the silent lambs vehicle to spread untruths about others. It is equally of no value to use a positive effort to throw out accusations that are false or unprovable.
I have noted that the national press in this country has stood clear of broadcasting stories about the silent lambs WT abuse victims while they nationally broadcast catholics picketing- given that earlier on the momentum was gaining- I have to wonder if the movement (silent lambs) has suffered a credibility crisis with the american press. Could it be that, like many here, the well trained, experienced news media shyed away because of the freely thrown accusations- that if provable and vaild would have drawn great continued media attention? The media does their own investigations as they cover stories. Just because a handful of people stand up and make statements does not mean that it is taken as fact at face value. Though pediphile issues exist in the WT and the two witness rule is applied by thier judicial committees- Silent Lambs founder and spokeman Bill Bowen with supporters has thrown out figures, accusations and charges against individual GB members as well as local congregation elders and ex-jws in such a way that has diminished the credibility of himself and his cause. In other words IMHO things have been thrown out a bit to freely- The circumstances of abuse are very serious- the charges are very serious and the feelings of abuse victims- both sexual and emotional- suffered by all ex-jws- is very real and equally serious. Many spend much time on this board and others like it because they suffered abuse of all sorts from the WT and their policies. Lost family members, lost friends and in the case of Mr Franz- lost careers- wasted lives. To not be empathetic toward ALL who have suffered WT abuse and to not be forgiving toward ALL for the actions and and support they gave the WT for many years of their lives is hypocritical. To put oneself in a leadership capacity and not have these qualities and have this understanding makes one as bad as the WT itself. How many here suffered from lies and rumors within the congregations? How many here had motives imputed and were marked due to unfounded gossip? Is such talk now- outside the organization- any less damaging than it was within the organization? Especially for those with tender hearts who are still recovering from the WT abuse? Many find needed fellowship and a certain amount of solice here and within silent lambs.org. Do any of us need lies and wild accusations to make us heal or to make us hate the WT even more? Though I am certain that sexual abuse occurs within the WT, life has taught me not to get caught up in fervor without facts. I am deeply saddened about the things that have happened and the policies of the WT that we all here suffered from. Likewise I do not want to become like those that we would condemn for bad practice. I am sure that many here sat in front of three elders and begged and cried and poured thier hearts out only to be shunned by all that they loved. We felt betrayed because rumor and false accusations took precedence over truth or heartfelt expressions of self defense.
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Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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kelsey007
To trauma hound and hawkeye- the lies I referred to that were told about me were told on this board and exposed as lies on this board.
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Thinking about Bill Bowen...
by Pathofthorns ini was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".
i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.
it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.
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kelsey007
Haven't been around here much lately- Just came by this morning to see if anything "new" or interesting was happening. Just a bunch more Bill Bowen garbage LOL. Lies have been told by his group- about myself and others. Mr Bowen and Silent Lambs has about zero credibility in my book. Just what I always wanted- to see abuse victims turn to a bunch of liars for assistance.
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Ray Franz And Things That Are Too Hard To Handle.
by Englishman ini see that ray franz is coming in for a fair bit of criticism due to his apparrant unwillingness to accept that jw's had a problem with the existence of child abuse when he was a member of the gb.
also, it would appear that ray is being chided for his belief in the rule of 2 witnesses before action can be taken against an abuser.
it seems to me that it is quite likely that ray wasn't aware that there was a serious abuse problem within the society when he was a member of the gb, if only for the reason that ray would find such an activity so detestable that he would believe it to be a virtually impossible act for anyone to perpetrate.
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kelsey007
I feel that Mr Franz did well in stating how he, like most here, did things in support of the org that we really did not feel comfortable with.
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" We Saw his Star in the East"
by Robdar ina question from realist on another thread prompted me to want to ask the board if our members believe in astrology.
here is my response on the subject and your comments are welcome, as always.. robdar, .
plaese tell me you don't believe in astrology!
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kelsey007
The WT taught me to be closed minded- life has taught me to be more oprn minded. I remember how history teaches that most of the world at one time thought the world was flat. They lived in fear of falling off the edge of the planet. Therefore exploration of the planet was hindered for hundreds of years because of closed minds.
I have never seen a ghost or a flying saucer. Many claim they have. I keep my mind open to such beliefs. It is said that down in the Florida keyes a man built a coral house (mansion) single handedly. It is also said that he moved the enitre structure in one night to a new location. Though he died without ever explaining his feat to anyone claims have been made that he depended on astrology. That when the stars and planets are aligned in a certain way gravety can be defeated??? All I know is that these events are claimed to have happened. In life amazing unexplanable things happen.
Though I never read horiscopes I do wonder with amazement at the vastness of the universe and wonder how how well organized this vastness seems to be. Then one must wonder what influence all these stars and planets have on each other and our lives.
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Ozzie's Weekend Poll #25
by ozziepost intoday marks our 25th weekend poll and so we're celebrating our very own silver anniversary!
so settle back and join with our round the world fraternity in polling yourself!
today's 'silver' topic is: .
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kelsey007
AHhh but oxxie I refuse to leave or write a letter of da- so wouldnt you have to df me to get rid of me for fear I would apostate others from the board?
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How Did You Handle Spiritual Snobs?
by minimus inmy wife was speaking negatively about a sister, an elder's wife, because since i resigned as an elder, she does not give her the time of day.
she said to me that sister-------- is a "spiritual snob.
" i never heard this expression before.
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kelsey007
But minimus- are we not now apostate snobs? Now that we know that we are better than the JW's.