Posts by 607BCisAbigLIE

5

What the Black Sun and the red moon mean in Rev.?

by 607BCisAbigLIE in

in this tread, i will post comments about what is the meaning of the moon that becomes red as blood in the revelation, and the sun that becomes black.

are those phisical signs?

that is what we will discuss here.. first, is it possible that the moon could become phisicaly red as blood, in its litteral sense?

607BCisAbigLIE

Larsguy:

I think you are right on the button about both references being to an "eclipse" but also you must add that the stars fall out of the sky. This suggests this is symbolic.

Sure it could be symbolic, but as siegswife has said, the fallout of stars couls be a meteor shower. Let me explain. In the most "dark" phase of a moon eclipse, the sky is not lighten by the moon cause it doesn't receive sun's light anymore (see an analogy here?). So it would be very easy to see other things that are usualy fainted out (although we do see sometimes falling stars (meteors)), like a big shower of meteor. But you are right on on the button (to use your expression ) when you say that it could be figurative of something else.

I have another research after starting this thread. I have typed "jerusalem eclipse" in my search engine, because if it is to be a real sign in the heavens, it should be visible over jerusalem, not anywhere in the world. If it is said that every eye should see it, think of the wide distribution of information on the internet.

In my research, I have noticed that the Israel and precisely Jews give a great importance over moon eclipses. Let me tell you that when they see a moon red like blood they want to hide themselves!!!!lol. Cause there is two part in interpreting the signs of the heaven. When we'll see it, it will mean something.

5

What the Black Sun and the red moon mean in Rev.?

by 607BCisAbigLIE in

in this tread, i will post comments about what is the meaning of the moon that becomes red as blood in the revelation, and the sun that becomes black.

are those phisical signs?

that is what we will discuss here.. first, is it possible that the moon could become phisicaly red as blood, in its litteral sense?

607BCisAbigLIE

In this tread, I will post comments about what is the meaning of the moon that becomes red as blood in the Revelation, and the sun that becomes black. Are those phisical signs? That is what we will discuss here.

First, is it possible that the moon could become phisicaly red as blood, in its litteral sense? YES it can, and I am sure I won't teach anything new here.

In a moon eclipse, when it is total, at its most total time, the moon, contrary as you could believe, is still visble. It is indeed a very beautifull event, one which is magical. in its peak time of the total ecplise, the moon take a deep redish color very alike blood's color. In the revelation, it is said that it is tainted in red. In reality it is true.

But how can the moon be visible in a red color even when the eclipse is at its peak, and only then? The red color is obtain because of the filtering of the atmosphere of the earth reflecting to the moon. Go see this web site you will have a good look at how it looks: http://www.mreclipse.com/Store/TLE00/TLE00sequence.html

So for the other sign it is easy to figure it out. A black sun is a total eclipse of the sun. The only problem I had was with the moon, cause I have never seen a moon eclipse. So I thought that the moon was totally invisible when it is hidden from the sun by the earth globe.

For the interpretation of the revelation according to this, I will let full room to anyone who want to provide one, keeping in mind what I have already written concerning what is a red moon.

See you soon!

2

Life after death.

by ballistic in

since leaving my life as a jw, i have often wondered about life after death, and have come to the conclusion that it is highly improbable that man was given life in order to conemplate what happens after death.

also, i have never seen any evidence for life after death.

what i do see is that when one is severely brain damaged, it reduces a capable and dignifyed human into a block of chemical reactions within a combination of material substances.

607BCisAbigLIE

COMF:

You are correct. Indeed, drugs can alter drastically our behaviour, in changing the chemical reactions into our brain, or by destroying definitively our brain cells.

But that doesn't mean we don't have a spiritiual part in our body. I see the brain as a connection between the phisical and spiritual mind. Surely if you phisical mind is altered, you spirit will also be. They are not separated between each other. They work together in close collaboration. I believe that when we die, the connection between our spirit and our body is broken. So the brain has no more influence over our spiritual being.

In the Bible, it is said that the flesh is sinner. It corrupts the spirit because of that interconnection. And it said also that at our death, the spirit returns to God, and cannot be corrupted anymore by the flesh.

So for the afterlife, I believe that we all go to Heaven, cause the flesh cannot wear incorruptibilty, cannot enter the God Kingdom, which is in Heaven, cannot wear Perfection. Only the spirit can wear incorruptibility, perfection, and can enter the God's Kingdom. So the WT teaching of an afterlife on earth cannot be true according to scriptures, because the flesh cannot be disassociated from sins, and it is also said in the Scriptures that the wage of sin is death. That is why we have to resurect into a spirit to obtain eternity. But I'm not here to tell you what to believe in. No one will be forgotten at his death. Even the ones who do not believe in an afterlife.

Although I believe in a afterlife, I am among the ones who say: "anyway we'll see after our death what is to believe and what is not."

It is understandable that those who have left the WT and its teachings, can hardly still believe in a afterlife, no matter where we will live after our death. It is the fault of cults like this one, because of their false interpretation of the Scripture, that we are to believe that the Bible isn't the book that it was told that it was, God's Word. Don't blame the Bible, though, blame it on the ones who interpret it to make it say what it doesn't say, only to serve their purpose of controling the mind of their followers to make more adepts and more money, and not teaching the true message of the Bible.

But I feel it is ok to not believe in it, as long as your life is a good one, maybe even if it is a bad one.

14

Armageddon: Your Opinion Please

by teenyuck in

jw
friends

if you believe armageddon is coming, a few questions:.

armageddon: what is your belief of how your life will be immediatly following armageddon?

what is your belief of how your life will be within 1-5 years of armageddon?

607BCisAbigLIE

BTW, I believe that someday we will live on a paradise earth. But to say it will happen soon, let me maybe teach you something.

For the day or the month or the year, NO ONE KNOWS. Even for the apostles, they were teached by Jesus that it would come soon. But what is SOON for God? For God, a year could mean 1000, and 1000 one year. So to say it will be soon, if it take another 2000 years, it is pretty much soon compared to the eternity of God. It is why we have to be patient. Maybe we will all be dead long before that Day, but I still believe that we will resurect to live in a paradise, may it be on earth or in Heavens, only time will tell. I have a stronger belief in a Heavenly afterlife, but it is still a paradise in my beliefs, so it doesn't change anything.

How that life will be in the paradise (earthly or heavenly)? What will we eat? What the animals will eat? If it is an earthly life, we will propably eat more nourrishing food, but it will be pretty much the same as today for those who are eating well already. If it is a heavenly afterlife, which is more according to Scriptures, we will not be hungry or thirsty again. How could spiritual beings need food to maintain life?

So one way or the other, it will be a very rich and healthy eternal life.

14

Armageddon: Your Opinion Please

by teenyuck in

jw
friends

if you believe armageddon is coming, a few questions:.

armageddon: what is your belief of how your life will be immediatly following armageddon?

what is your belief of how your life will be within 1-5 years of armageddon?

607BCisAbigLIE

My belief for Armagedon is really simple:

Although in the Bibles it refers to the Almighty God's Great War, I think it refers to the victory of Good on Evil. This is not a destruction of the earth or its people on it. God is a loving God, not an avenger God. When He say He will destroy the wicked, I think that means the tendency to do evil, not the person itself. Unlike what the WT would like us to think, wars are a lot less frequent than in the past. Humanitarian actions taken in some developping countries have prooven succesfull over the past century. About a century ago, the average life expectancy in those countries was about 25 years of life span. It is now more than 50 years of life span. I agree that the difference between the richer and the poorer is increasing, but don't forget that the riches contribute a large part in the improvement of the life conditions of the poors. Cheap cost technologies is well affordable now for the poor, and it contributes to make a poor richer than it was because its life conditions are much better than before. I work in a manufactury, my salary is pretty good, I am considered a poor among the riches who are my bosses, but that doesn't make me a poor in the sense of life conditions. I can buy myself everything I want.

For someone living in developing countries, their needs are much different than ours, who live in well-idustrialized countries. They need medicine, food, clean houses for their family, hospitals, so the basic human needs that everyone in Canada or USA take for granted. Even in those countries they can now afford computers and other technologies. Ok maybe they will have a 486, with a poor connection to the WEB, but still they can connect on the Internet like everyone else. And for their basic needs, just see the improvements they got from over a century; it speaks by itself.

For the livng on a paradise earth, let me put it this way: as long as it is the Human race that have make the earth like it is today, it is the purpose of Humans to reverse that destructive way. And it has already begun; more and more now want to change things to make our mother earth a better place to live. Maybe we will at the proper time have the help of God to accomplish this, but in my thoughs God won't intervene in human things as long as we won't turn our heart toward His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Only our faith in Jesus and His sacrifice for the sin of humanity will save us, not in a hypotetic Armagedon like the one which is taught in the WT litterature. The faith in the Blood of Christ is what changes hearts for the better. It is what make us take action for the humanity cause. It should never be used to support any religion just for the sake of believing in something, even if we believe in something that is false. The only true religion is our personnal relation with Jesus Christ, and not with any religion, especially not the sectarian ones for which the only goal is making money, not your welfare.

I think that resumes my beliefs about Armagedon. Thanks for the tread

119

Validity of 607 BCE date

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of jerusalem.

i understand rolf furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site.

if no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

607BCisAbigLIE

Trevor wrote:

As it is clear that the real date for Jerusalem’s fall is 586 B.C.E. and not 607 B.C.E., all the other important Watchtower dates are without foundation. A rumour of this nature existed when I was a Witness and I had been to the library and checked every reference book available and confirmed that this was one more false date to add to the list.

You maybe have made the BEST MOVE of your life my friend. Where have you taken the power to resist the WTBTS teaching is a true MIRACLE!! That is the way all JWs must follow if they really want to know the real truth, and not following blindy the "custom made" truth of an organization like the WTBTS. Knowledge is the best weapon against false prophets.

For non-scholar:

When scholars researched for the dates of the Neo-Babylonian periods, they based their study on facts, not on presumption of telling the truth, and surely not trying to prove that the 607 BCE date was wrong. I'm sure that most of these scholars where unaware of the WT teaching on that issue. They were not writing their stuff just to harm the WT, cause it was surely not in their mind. Why have they done their research? Just because they wanted to know the facts, like for every period of human history we all have studied in school; for those who have studied long enough, of course (JW have been long and still discouraged of attending high degrees of scholarship, like college or university degrees).

And many scholars took those research and compared it with the Bible chronology. And most of the time the Bible is still in accordance with the facts. Even the WT doesn't deny it; the WT just distort the facts to make them tell what they want them to tell, nothing more. Why I say "most of the time"? That is just because some maybe arguing about a year here and there, which is not a big issue, since sometimes the Bible refers to the year of ascension of a king, and sometimes to the first full year of reign.

Some will say that the Bible is sometimes contradictory about some of the chrono issues; I think the fault is on the interpretation given by some theologians rather than real Bible contradiction. When the Bible is READ and not interpreted, and compared with the known facts, it is quite accurate about historical dates of the judah rulers and the babylonian period involving the Hebrews, as for other wolrd powers that have come to pass trough the Hebrew History.

All of this was to say that when all evidences point to the 587/586BCE as to be the date of the fall of Jerusalem in the hands of Babylon, why should anyone still presume the 607BCE date to be true? Because if the 607 is not true, then all the WT castle cumbles, and all the doctrine about the "parousia" (according to good sources from real ancient greek scholars, the greek term parousia should mean coming, and not presence) of the Lord in 1914 doesn't stand anymore.

And for the 2520 years for Gentile times, how could they took that from a prophecy that was oubviously only to be a warning to Nebuccadnezzar that the end of his reign was approching? Why the WT is always doing that "double-meaning prophecy" teaching? They call this prefiguration. I call this "appropriation of prophecy just to try to prove they are the ones by whom the Almighty God speaks" and nothing more than that. Just check the way they come to that interpretation of Daniel 4:10-25! By taking number in Revelation, the Numbers, and Deut., which are all prophecies or number that were attributed only to the events they firstly have been settled for, they have come up with a savant calculation to get the 2520 number. But how could someone explain that sometimes they take numbers litterally (144.000, the 3 1/2 years (used to calculate their 2520!)), sometimes figuratively (40 days in the desert for israel, with 1 day=1 year)? How can the WTBTS know when it is litteral, and when it is not? It's a mystery.... for those who are unaware of the fact that they indeed manipulate the Scriptures (to the extent of merely translate the Bible into its own WT jargon) to make them say what they want them to say.

But it all comes down when you take a Bible and read it from the beginning to the end (and don't laugh, I made it myself, and I must say that it is pretty harsh in some passages), anyone would come to the conclusion that the WT is way far from the original Gospel of the apostle, and anyone would see a lot of inconsistencies with the WT teachings.

37

JW Education Status

by Scully in

jw
friends

this was posted on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, just thought i'd share it with you:.

the following figures from an article in newsweek represent the number of college graduates within each religious group in america.

can this be used to relate the intelligence of the membership of each religion?

607BCisAbigLIE

Erich:

If any JW's have got other suggestions, then it is their own business. And if the society would go to df' me for "apostasy"-reasons, then it's their own business too. Not mine.

Don't worry Erich, if they DF you, you know now you can have very loving friends (true loving without any regard to your religious thoughs). The world is not as bad as others (JW, medias) would like us to think. It is full of goodness, despite all the badness in it. But it is up to you to see it by your own eyes, not the WT ones.

37

JW Education Status

by Scully in

jw
friends

this was posted on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, just thought i'd share it with you:.

the following figures from an article in newsweek represent the number of college graduates within each religious group in america.

can this be used to relate the intelligence of the membership of each religion?

607BCisAbigLIE

Erich:

Fact is: I am a JW, and I do not believe that everyone on the planet, except JW's, will be killed in armageddon. I further do believe that there will not happen a global slaughter which kills 99% of people

Very good thinking my friend! You're on your way to salvation !! Unfortunately, there is still a majority of JWs who do think otherwise. But don't tell the elders that you think like ex or non-JW do!!

Have a good night Erich

37

JW Education Status

by Scully in

jw
friends

this was posted on alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, just thought i'd share it with you:.

the following figures from an article in newsweek represent the number of college graduates within each religious group in america.

can this be used to relate the intelligence of the membership of each religion?

607BCisAbigLIE

Erich:

Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before the "great tribulation," and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. We look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. He has committed judgment into Jesus' hands, not ours.— Matthew 7:1-5; 24:21;<

Just old light reformulated otherwise. They surelly speak of those who ar studying but will not be "baptized" at Armagedon. Nothing new under the sun my friend.

207

IS THE WATCHTOWER A FALSE PROPHET?

by You Know in

when jesus was on earth the devil approached him quoting scripture in order to tempt and entrap him.

it is no wonder then that the apostate angel would be behind the effort to use the scriptures against jehovahs people today in order to mislead them.

one of the most cunning and effective uses of scripture against us by satans agents is the charge that we are false prophets.

607BCisAbigLIE

Utopian:

Basically, the underlying question for the individual is, "despite all of the evidence presented and its history", could or should you still continue devoting your personal faith and worship to the WTBS and obey its policies and procedures in order to please Almighty God?

My answer is definetely NO!!

Have a good night