There is a site which anyone should visit it can be very interesting.
In that site you'll find information on history related to the book of revelation. You'll notice that there is an interpretation that much suits to the people of the early Christian times, than to the people of our time. The logic is that when John wrote the Apocalypse book, it had to be understood by the people of his time, with terms and symbolics that the early Christians and others (like historians) would understand. So go see by yourself, give your impression, and I will comment on it too later.
607BCisAbigLIE
JoinedPosts by 607BCisAbigLIE
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Who is babylon the great?
by 607BCisAbigLIE inthere is a site which anyone should visit it can be very interesting.. in that site you'll find information on history related to the book of revelation.
you'll notice that there is an interpretation that much suits to the people of the early christian times, than to the people of our time.
the logic is that when john wrote the apocalypse book, it had to be understood by the people of his time, with terms and symbolics that the early christians and others (like historians) would understand.
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607BCisAbigLIE
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Good news for modern OBVEServers
by unclebruce inhey obves,.
goodnews - i just crunched your numbers with biblemans numbers and broke the mathmatical equations down to iir2 .. let me double check the algebra ... x2 + x + 41 = prime number - xerxies x nabonidus + daniel 360 = jesus pies are squared.
.. yep works every time .. break an equation down far enough and out pops old iir2.
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607BCisAbigLIE
LOL
its all I've come up with... Sorry!!
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Christmas and birthdays...
by Celia inthis thought came to me this morning, as i was lying in bed, trying to figure out which end is up.... the jws dont celebrate christmas, the birth of christ their savior.... because in earlier times, the same date was used to celebrate the return of the sun, the winter solstice.... (by the way, celebrating the return of the sun makes a lot of sense... no sun - no life..... we know the sun is there, we know what it does, no such thing about a god...) .
but i regress.. so, because on this date, pagans used to celebrate the sun, the jws dont want to celebrate christs birth..... its a little bit like not wanting to celebrate the birthday of a loved one, because he/she was born on the same day as a bad guy in history, like hitler, or napoleon, or slobodan milosevic, or saddam hussein, or osama bin laden... etc.... hmmm... my thinking is flawed, because, of course, the jws dont celebrate birthdays either.... question : did they first decide that christmas was evil or birthday celebrating was ?.
edited because the emoticon does not work.... :) :?
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607BCisAbigLIE
Yerusalyim:
Scripture is silent on the matter of whether or not Jesus celebrated his birthday. Scripture, however, is not silent about the angels. The ANGELS DID INDEED celebrate his birthday.
Very interesting point: I should investigate further on it.
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Christmas and birthdays...
by Celia inthis thought came to me this morning, as i was lying in bed, trying to figure out which end is up.... the jws dont celebrate christmas, the birth of christ their savior.... because in earlier times, the same date was used to celebrate the return of the sun, the winter solstice.... (by the way, celebrating the return of the sun makes a lot of sense... no sun - no life..... we know the sun is there, we know what it does, no such thing about a god...) .
but i regress.. so, because on this date, pagans used to celebrate the sun, the jws dont want to celebrate christs birth..... its a little bit like not wanting to celebrate the birthday of a loved one, because he/she was born on the same day as a bad guy in history, like hitler, or napoleon, or slobodan milosevic, or saddam hussein, or osama bin laden... etc.... hmmm... my thinking is flawed, because, of course, the jws dont celebrate birthdays either.... question : did they first decide that christmas was evil or birthday celebrating was ?.
edited because the emoticon does not work.... :) :?
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607BCisAbigLIE
Frenchy:
Indeed, I agree with you again. That's making me think that unconditionnal love is impossible. Period. But I can give it a try, it doesn't hurt ( however, due to my poor human condition, and with reason, I WILL NEVER be able to have love for people who are child molesters (put it in first), murderers, women battlers, and the list of Evil-doing humans go on and on and on...). And you also say true when you say that we don't have the same kind of love for close ones than the one we have for starngers. But fortunately, despite a lack of uncoditonnal, I can say that love can be relative among people we know. That's not conditional, though; it's only because we don't know every one as well as our closed friends and loved ones. But for Evil-doers, all I see in them will always be Evil. And Evil is the only ennemy. And I will never have even love for them, cause they don't really deserve any small bit of consideration by me. God must be very kindfull in a way unimaginable to even have one small interest among Evil-doers.
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Are we in Jesus's Reign?
by ballistic insorry, to ask a basic question.
(and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.
but i just want to get this straight:.
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607BCisAbigLIE
BTW, Erich, don't quote my post partially. You have cut the first sentence in half, as the last one in your quote. But I must apologize . It would have make sense to quote the first part of the sentence, 'cause that was all I was talking about in the first place.
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Are we in Jesus's Reign?
by ballistic insorry, to ask a basic question.
(and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.
but i just want to get this straight:.
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607BCisAbigLIE
To Erich:
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Ok. First of all, I think there is a mistake in you Bible reference, cause that verse tells nothing about it. I think it should have been Mat. 19:27 but correct me if i'm wrong. Beside, I read Mat. 19:27-30, and I want to comment on it.
...Lord, Christ and Saviour. He DOESN'T need ANY organization on earth to operate under God's will; nowhere in the Bible you'll see that an earthly organization was ever needed by God to accomplish
His will...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Nonsense. How could Jesus' instruction in Mat.27:19 become fulfilled without having an earthly organization?
First, I can see that in those verses that there is a purpose to quit everything to follow Jesus. Emphasize on the last word: JESUS. Not an organization. Those verses mean, for me, more than an organization. It is a call for all mankind to walk in the path of Christ. Nowhere in those line we should see an "earthly organization", cause Jesus speaks about an heavenly one, oubviously. And we dont see, indeed, the word "organization" in those verses. Sorry to tell you, but i take those lines for what they are: a call for all mankind to follow his path. Maybe some will need help to accomplish it, but not all. And surely not from ones who claim to be in the Truth, but cannot really be sure of it. No one can be sure, even JWs. God will not judge humans on what organization or religion one follows, but on the condition of heart of that person. And believe me, outside of the WT there is more than you can count (refers to Rev. 7:9, maybe?). Maybe there is an organization, but one that no one can see. Maybe it is in our heart, under our commitment into the Blood of Christ.
But I should wait for your comment on those verses, not only a statement out of explanation.
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Are we in Jesus's Reign?
by ballistic insorry, to ask a basic question.
(and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.
but i just want to get this straight:.
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607BCisAbigLIE
YK,
At least you gave attention to my post, and I read very carefully those you write yourself. And it is very interesting, but I cannot return to those WT teachings. I've been trough that.
The first time I begun to wonder about the JWs beliefs, as I were a bible student, I was pretty much thinking like you do now. I couldn't see the evidences, cause there are (and you have maybe notice some by yourself, as I can see in your post, without beeing precise about those), because I couldn't really prove by myself that the WT was wrong. But be carefull here: I don't say that the WT is ALL wrong, but they are in many important issues.
So after a while, and not long ago, I got myself a computer and the Internet. At the beginning, I was affraid to go on the net searching for Jehovah Witnesses web sites. But after a while I took my courage and typed "jehovah witnesses" in my search engine. Oh boy!!! I couldn't have been aware of so much information I was looking for in years!!!!!! But when it became obvious that there was very good web sites about the subject, showing proof with what they say about the WT teachings, I use caution. Though I know that good information is helpfull to clarify an issue, it is oubvious that some sites are only WT-bashing crap. Intelligent criticizm on a subject can be very usefull to demistify the WT teaching; otherwise some of them that you call "apostate" are very faithfull heartly poeple. But when they can prove when an organization is telling lies to its follower, they cannot continue to teach lies to the population who is not aware.
I know that the WT hasn't to be "true" all the time, that's impossible. And maybe there is something good in it, but I doubt it. Sorry. But when it become oubvious that their teaching is somewhat going far in the wrong direction, how can you say that it is the Truth anymore?
Beside, if it feels good for you to stay in those beliefs, that your affair. I won't even try to get you out of it. But if someday you come with about the same conclusions that there is something wrong with those beliefs, as I do, I will be the first to help you understand your doubts (I am sure you already have some, but I can be wrong), cause doubting is in a way a good sign of intelligence. Anyone should have the right to discuss, give his opinion (and I even invite you to continue to post about your position) on an issue, every one is welcome.
So may you continue your work, but beware that someday you could come on same conclusion as mine or others.
With regards,
607BCisAbigLIE
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Are we in Jesus's Reign?
by ballistic insorry, to ask a basic question.
(and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.
but i just want to get this straight:.
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607BCisAbigLIE
YouKnow:
BTW, the only One that interceeds between God and mankind, is Jesus, our Lord, Christ and Saviour. He DOESN'T need ANY organization on earth to operate under God's will; nowhere in the Bible you'll see that an earthly organization was ever needed by God to accomplish
His will. -
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Are we in Jesus's Reign?
by ballistic insorry, to ask a basic question.
(and i have been accused of requiring spiritual milk in an email),.
but i just want to get this straight:.
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607BCisAbigLIE
YouKnow:
let me put it to you this way: when WTS teachings, compared to real evidence doesnt pass the test of being the Truth (WTS teachings), is still called the Truth (WTS teachings), it is hypocrisy.
In the minds of our apostate enemies it is either all or nothing. That is to say: Satan would have the incredulous mind believe that if certain aspects of our teaching are in error then that means that we are not Jehovah's people
Certain aspects? open your eyes man!! there's a lot more than you think. Of course, some are maybe questionable, but some are very well documented and attested. Get information that is not filtered through the WT litterature. Go and verify all those quotes taken from profane books that invades WT litterature: many are misquoted out of their real context only to trick your mind that the person who is quoted say the same thing as the Organization's teaching.
I wont argue anymore 'cause Ithink it will be a waste of time unless you are an openminded soul, although it is oubviuos here that you are not.Sorry for that post YouKnow, I din't meant no harm. All I want to say to you however, that is your opinion, and i should respect it. But don't call us apostate. Maybe we are maybe we aren't. ONLY GOD Has the right to judge. If you open your eyes, you will see that a lot of people, if not the majority, are very good people.
Beside, what is to believe in God, if it is without love for anyone? I mean true love, not the one conducted by prozelitizing?
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"Nephilim" and the WTBS
by MacHislopp ini would like to give , on the subject,.
the actual wtbs teaching v the.
1940s rutherford teaching.. i actual teaching.
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607BCisAbigLIE
i agree with you D Wittshire
How can someone cope with that kind of teaching? That's pretty much amazing!!