my wife expresssd to me as we watched a movie that she really loves how those in christianity dont have to meet requirements to become baptised.
she stated the it seems morenin line with the scriptures.
i agreed with her and brought up the story of cornelius and his family baptised the night he saw paul in the prison cell.
My wife expresssd to me as we watched a movie that she really loves how those in Christianity dont have to meet requirements to become baptised. She stated the it seems morenin line with the scriptures. I agreed with her and brought up the story of cornelius and his family baptised the night he saw Paul in the prison cell. She agreed.
Progress? Seems so but we will see.
well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.
i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.
i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.
Adamah--the article wouldnt load :-/
well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.
i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.
i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.
He kond of gave me the spiel adamah but he was genuinely confised by it....just like he said the one thng he doesnt get is why God allows suffering
well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.
i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.
i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.
Adamah--Good point...you always remind me to think of what the history shows people believed back in the good ole days.
Gen 2: 7 And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person. 8 Further, Jehovah God planted a garden in E′den, toward the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree that was pleasing to look at and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad.
So the tree was already called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil/bad.....So the serpent didnt lie when it "spoke" about what its prospects were....not only that werent himans created "in gods image"? So he didnt lie when he said wed be like God.......He knew we were imperfect...This free will gave us the ability to appreciate and long for, love, have passion for our environment and yet all suffering (except natural disasters o course) is inflicted by free will right? Cause the demons cant read our thoughts....
the more i spin the the more crazy i feel.
i need to take this opportunity to plant a seed of truth to my wufe.
remember subtlety is key!
her part is was jesus raised a spirit body?.
My wifes on the chair playing chess and im on JWN.....of course she doesnt knooooow that lol
well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.
i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.
i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.
Doesnt make much sense unless it is symbolic...For example the GB tells us that basically the serpent was cursed to slide on the earth and eat dirt (evidenced by the flickering of the snakes tongue for guidance) because it represents Satans Fall from high stature to lowly dickhead.....and yet they STILL claim the event is literal.....i have a feeling there are one or two things going on...the elder has doubts and is a deeper thinker than i thought (hes super smart) OR hes MOST likely baitinge to disclose my own doubts since i e missed so many meetings....
well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.
i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.
i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.
Well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how Adam sinned if he was perfect. I said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to CHOOSE. I then told him that i thought if God wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:
Why is it independent thinking is the Devil if God was the one who created us with freew will in the first place.
Next we discussed why God punished the serpent.....if Satan just utilized the snake to deceive Evie....So after many jumps through hoops and what the Society offers as speculation we canned it....i felt as though he was baiting me so i refrained from asking him if it was possible that it was symbolic. The. In conversation about Satans Plan for eves deception i added: Well he did tell the truth in that she would know Good and Bad and Be just like God....
he agreed but said it was how he made her doubt and go against God that was the deception. I let it Go at that.
Overall i felt good after, although throughout i had to hold my tongue as he standardized everyone as Deceived by Satan and blah blah While i connected the dots on how the org is very similar to pharisees and all that.
Last thing: at one point the elder said "We all need control of some kind in order to fight against Satan"......i couldnt help but smile at this rationale for why the org controls us....Oh Jehovahs visible organization is great indeed.
i need to take this opportunity to plant a seed of truth to my wufe.
remember subtlety is key!
her part is was jesus raised a spirit body?.
I think apog might be a shrink or marriage cult exit counselor.
steve im reading the God Delusion actually lol. I read that when im getting eye fatigued from "Why Evolution Is True".
i need to take this opportunity to plant a seed of truth to my wufe.
remember subtlety is key!
her part is was jesus raised a spirit body?.
Jgnat- good idea! I forgot about that rapture thing.
apog said: See, you're making an assumption that "the Bible" says one thing clearly, and frankly that's not the case when we look critically at the collected writings that make up the Bible.
I see your point definitely....im taking something and utilizing it to contradict them without first thinking ahead at how they may also use other scriptures.
apog then said: That being said, personally I see a lot of marital troubles start when one mate starts to do lots of independent research, comes to their own conclusions, and then one day drops everything on their other mate. It seems that very few mates maintain open lines of communication during this period of learning TTATT because they feel they have to hide it. The end result is that one mate ends up alienating the other, and either the marriage breaks down over several years, or it takes several years for the other mate to come to share their beliefs.
i have to say youve hits about 99% of my situation and thoughts with this post. I DO feel i have to hide things which i feel already makes me a target not to be trusted...i look guilty already. I dont want to drop the bomb...but im so far into it i find it difficult to just drop little hints. I also blame and am angry at the WT for this because they dont allow you to have freedom of speech without the possibility or fear of extreme negative response. This, i find is the foundation of why it is the awaken mate sees need to hide. I DO NOT want to live my life that way so i see why it is you brought out caution about listening to others on the forum too much.
Like you, i also find it miserable to do talks because of what i know. I dont want to feel the need to hide but i also cant drop the bomb. So i have to find a common ground for where i can maintain my sanity but be unselfish and try to understand more about how my wife feels.
With that i come back to Hassan techniques and jwfacts...and the need to compartmentalize my thoughts and set priorities.
And i understand what you mean now about knowing myself and knowing what direction i need to go....if im Lost why would i invite her to be lost also.
i need to take this opportunity to plant a seed of truth to my wufe.
remember subtlety is key!
her part is was jesus raised a spirit body?.
Steve lol.
Apog-- First- im exploring what my beliefs are. Im actually researching for once and also getting pointers from people on this forum who have been through similar experience. I find different viewpoints not only interesting, but helpful.
I dont believe they have everything wrong, i wish it were that simple.
Second--i believe ive stated what i found wrong with the above idea. However this is something that came up last minute, i see a chance and decide to ask for advice so i can get something together--not to necessarily prove the WT wrong i guess but to get my wife to open her mind to explore the idea that something else might be there.
Fir example: Kate/Sam suggested i use it as a fiekd service thing---which luck will have it my wife already thought was a good idea. (Thanks Katewild).
Third- I respect your candor and criticism (constructive no doubt). And i appreciate it because, and im sure many lurkers here will attest to, i have been a prisoner for years....So i also have to learn how to think critically again. So yea at this moment i found a strange circumstance in which my wife doesnt understand something and i jump on it. I have a goal--get my famIly out. A belief system? Im not sure, but my goal is to exercise my right to learn from as many perspectives as i can to help decide for myself. And i owe it to my wife and children to give them that right also.
Atheist, agnostic, muslim, whatever--it doesnt matter because Based on the Bible (the book she studies from) did Jesus get raised as a "physical" body or "spiritual" body? Not based on what you think but whats the Bible say vs the WT? If theyre right theyre right and i move onto another topic. But if not and i can offer my wife the chance to think outside the bubble im gonna take it....
i apologize if this isnt a solid answer for ya Apog but thats all ive got so far.
What is it you suggest? I form my own belief system then get my wife to adhere to that?
