Posts by rawdata

nu 31:17-18 moses, following the lord's command, orders the israelites to kill all the midianite male children and "... every woman who has known man ...." (note: how would it be determined which women had known men?

one can only speculate.

dt 21:10-13 with the lord's approval, the israelites are allowed to take "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their captive wives.

rawdata

The very exsistance of this discussion makes me question any supernatural source. The Bible is not self-contained. It doesn't explain things that "seem" to be inconsistancies/contradictions within itself. It always leaves these explinations to some persons or other with "special" insight into the meaning. To me that points as much to it's origins as anything else. Extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. If Advertisers can come up with compelling enough language so as not to leave people confused as to their meaning and intent, How much more so the Omniscient, Omnipotent God of Christianity?

31

Remember how great the get-togethers were in the 1980's??

by PaNiCAtTaCk in

jw
friends

i remembers skating parties at least once a month, volleyball at the park, get-togethers where everyone would play bible charades and sing kingdoms songs, going to the river to swim with the whole congregation after the sunday meeting, spending the afternoon at the lake eating watermelon and water skiing.

it was a great upbringing!

also, i dont want to leave out the strong feelings of eliteness that i had even as a child, of having the truth.

rawdata

Then I guess the Bastards of Brooklyn got wind that it's "slaves" were smiling and laughing and learning to interact with others of the human race

Oh man, when I was at bethel ('89 to '94) it was that way all the way to the top. Where I worked was on a main visitors tour route. We could get "counseled" if we were similing too broadly and didn't look serious enough while we were working. And god forbid if we laughed. There were certain overseers that would, if they heard any laughing, yank whoever was laughing off to the side and tell them to quit goofing off and to get serious. It didn't matter if we were working as hard as humanly possible. They would always quote Timothy or Titus or some other scripture and tell us we had to be serious minded.

In conversations with one of my overseers (who is now one of the Gooberning Body), he admitted that there is a faction in the WT leadership that doesn't believe that anyone who laughs and shows other expressions of hapiness can also be a serious person. Thought the place isn't swarming with these kind of folks, there is enough (and in the right positions of the hierarchy) to take out their issues on everyone else.

32

Insurance news letter from January 2004 re:hiring JW's

by schne_belly in

i hope this is ok to post this news article.

its an insurance/news letter that i purchased online.

i am thinking of distributing to local hospital human resource departments to inform them of their need to ask questions when hiring people with religious views that may affect their work.

rawdata

>>>Shelly thinks: Many who have been at Bethel or served on judicial committees or served as a overseer of some sort WOULD have access to such information having been a part of the ORGANIZATION,

Nope, sorry Shelly, it doesn't get around. After 28 years in the org. and serving in all three positions you list, this type of info is not shared in any form. In fact, my father was on a HLC since thier inception until about 4 years ago. I once asked him about this very thing and he said this is a subject (one of many) that they don't talk about unless you are directly involved. This type of information is, ironically, kept confidential. Also, this is one of those topics that the information is compartmentalized (with extreme prejudice) and even not all of the GB would be familiar.

75

Were YOU Gossiped About In The Congregation?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you know who the worst offenders were??

the elders.

the elders, because they were "shepherds and overseers" believed they had the right to talk about you, your family, your job, your personality and so forth.....they pick apart any male in the hall under the guise of seeing whther someone "might qualify for privileges".

rawdata

A couple of y'all said "if you're alive" you get gossiped about. Heck, some of the Witnesses I knew, even that wasn't a requirement. There was some people who had died years before, that they still gossiped about. Granted, people are going to talk about people, it's just part of human nature. It's not like they have a sense of decorum, but choose to ignore it. It's like the entire concept of appropriateness is lost on them.

@ tigerman: You were warned what would happen if you took the red pill.

Paul

28

It's Official - Yoga is EVIL!

by Incense_and_Peppermints in

yoga?just an exercise or something more?

can yoga be practiced without any religious overtones?

is yoga suitable for christians?

rawdata

OK, So I suppose it's natural to be skeptical of anyone who says they can do telepathy or turn invisible. I have yet to see anyone do that, however ... don't you just love it when they say stuff like this:

The image of a yogi sleeping on a bed of nails or walking on hot coals may appear to be a hoax to some and a joke to others. But these are common occurrences in India, as is the practice of standing on one leg while staring directly at the sun for hours and breath control that allows a person to be buried in sand for long periods of time. In June 1995, The Times of India reported that a three-and-a-half-year-old girl lay in a trance as a car weighing more than 1,600 pounds [750 kg] was allowed to run over her abdomen. To the amazement of the crowd, when she awoke she was totally unharmed. The report added: "It was sheer yogic power."

Without a doubt, no normal human is capable of performing any of these tasks.

I think that's an awful big assumption. Since when did they become experts on what the human body can or can't do? I guess I've seen enough Discovery Channel type shows to believe the human body is capable of far more than what some consider "normal". There was this one show where this guy who had the front wheel of a 10 passenger Gulfstream (or LearJet) executive jet drive over his belly just to show off his muscle control. (Scale wise that would be about the same as the small car over the little girl.) While I don't remember the details, they showed how he did it, and there was no supernatural or spiritual connection whatsoever. While I'm no expert, It seems from what I have learned about yoga, like so many other exercise regimens, the primary focus is on controling your emotions along with your mind over body connection. (whew, that was a mouthful. i hope that makes sense)

Instead of sorting the good, the bad, and the ugly out for people let's just take the easy way out and scrap the whole thing. Nothing like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak, eh? Or even better yet, why not present the subject in an objective or at least nonjudgmental way so people might actually learn something. Ahh well, isn't superstitious paranoia grand?

"Doublethink ... is a vast system of mental cheating"

(George Orwell).

17

June 15th Watchtower -- A critque

by TD in

there is an ancient artist?s saying that states, "if you do not know your materials, all you do is express your inability to express yourself.

" an artist must know his materials and the ideal of a true artist is to know those materials so well that using them is as natural as breathing.

in the two companion articles, "rightly value your gift of life" and "be guided by the living god," the june 15th, 2004 issue of the watchtower proves beyond any doubt that its writers have attained that ideal with their chosen medium.

rawdata

Hey TD, great post!

I love this kind of examination of all kinds of argumentation, especially the JW fluff they put out. But hey, here is a bit of my experience. A while back when I was in ~~Bethel~~ the "Big House" a guy who sat at my lunch table was in the writing department. He liked to boast how great the writing was even though they had only high school educations and that some had not even graduated high school. Also, after conversations with several different people from there, I noticed that quite a few did not have a very good grasp of the English language they speak. Having taken accelerated English classes in high school I thought; "Now that explains a lot." Then it occurred to me that most of them had been immersed that insular society for decades as well. I have noticed a marked improvement, even in the grammar, compared to writing prior to their use of computers. I wonder if spell check had anything to do with that? I have had quite a few conversations along these lines, some including the use of a first year logic (college) text book. I have learned that this kind of examination of JW writing is called nit-picking. Twice I have had Colossians 2:8 quoted to me regarding ?the philosophy and empty deceptions? of men when it came to what I thought was pretty straight forward logic. I came to the conclusion that most JW?s are not really interested in whether their explanations are logical or not. It still is a worthwhile effort for reaching those few who are truly concerned with this type of fundamental. Plus, it is great for helping everyone here on the board to exercise those mental muscles. I rarely have time for such thorough examination of JW stuff anymore, being a stay at home dad with three small children. So, thanks for the effort!

rawdata

1

Anyone from Midland, MI?

by rawdata in

i grewup in midland and hated every minute of it.

i'm free now and couldn't be happier.

the hardest part is not having any family/friends to talk to, since i was df'd.

rawdata

I grewup in Midland and hated every minute of it. I'm free now and couldn't be happier. The hardest part is not having any family/friends to talk to, since I was df'd. So I was wondering if there was anyone out there to chat with. Drop me a [email protected]

38

Went To The Quick Build

by Undecided in

jw
friends

i just returned from the building site of the new kh.

i had never seen a quick build.

it kind of made me sad, i saw so many old friends that i used to know.

rawdata

Seems everyone's got a little bit different take on this. This is what you get when dealing with an organization that thrives on the legalistic. While it's been about six years since I've been to one, I was heavily involved with the local quick-builds for about ten years. Over the years it appeared to me that nearly every one was different. I'm talking about how their financed and ownership and all that. It seemed like they changed the rules every year. In order to even build a KH, the congregation had to be incorporated as a nonprofit organization. Once the loan was paid off, MOST congregations corporations owned the KH and property free and clear. While I don't understand the legalities (when it comes to the Borg who can?) there are SOME KH's that the the society did own, but that was the exception. HOWEVER, It still seemed like the Society made out with some cash one way or another.

I generally had a good time at those quick-builds. However, the gross lack of safety really bugged me. They changed rules to try to improve safety (I think some non-witnesses complained) but it didn't really help much. This really grated after working in the big house for years and the stress they put on saftey there. Of course they only did that cause they had to, those pesky OSHA rules. O.K. I think I'll stop there before I get off topic.grr..