Posts by Abaddon

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

Abaddon

Hi Julie! Abaddon Towers in Tilburg, The Netherlands, would be graced by your presence.

D wiltshire;

8-)

I think we both probably prefer it this way; it's more constructive.

At the end, yes, something, be it the stuff of the big bang or god, comes from nothing. Although the theories that show the Universe, or at least A Universe was inevitable are facsinating, I am not one of the few tens of thousands of people who actually understand the maths. And I still think it's something from nothing, as if there was something that was nothing there was still something.

Physics and good pot are quite simliar.

That, as we both seem to realise means that we are both screwed.

So, having dealt with the Evolution vs. Creation debate in a reasonable fashion and equatedit a draw, we can move on to the real fun stuff. Logic.

It doesn't make sense that god would be a question of anything as insubstancial as belief. Now, you seem to have greater faith in the ineffable than I; "if someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability" one would think they would cut us a break.

I'm being reasonable. I've asked Satan and God for signs, and, well, I must smell or something. I was not able to sell my soul for fame and fortune, or summon dark forces, not was I able to get one sign, not even a little one like there being one more beer in the fridge than I put there, from god. I have a logical mind, which god gave me, apparently, and this logical mind essentially says "YOOOHOOO!!! COME OUT COME OUT WHERE EVER YOU ARE!!!" and gets no answer.

Now if what we do with our lives is a big deal and shapes our future, I think god being all ineffable and hiding his existence from the world and making it look, to even a detailed look, like the Universe was just this wonderful fantastic glittering machine of coldness and maths and beauty with no god, well, I just don't think that's reasonable.

If god really wants us to do what he knows is best for us, we wouldn't doubt his existence.

But we can and we do, and all quite reasonably.

So, this leaves three choices.

1/ God exists, is an asshole, and is playing games. The devil is actaully a freedom fighter. The Bible is a propoganda tract.

2/ Something rather removed from the concerned loving god we all like to conceptualise exists. There is a creator, but, so to speak, if you bumped into him at a party he wouldn't recognise you. Or the entire planet we live. There is a god, but we are a sideshow that might never be seen, as it is NOT about us.

3/ There is no god.

As 1/ and 2/ seem like Kevin Smith, Bacon what's his name, the guy who made Clerks, and Mall Rats and Chasing Amy and Dogma (love that movie) screenplays, at this time I go for 3/.

Of course, you don't have to agree with me!! But for the record, I would love it if there were a god and if there were an afterlife. If the Universe is as I suspect it is, that means I will cease to exist at some point. Without sounding self-centred, the idea sucks. Even if option 1/ was true, it would kind of be fun, as all of the sudden you are part of a mythic battle. So, option 3/ is my least favourate, but it's the one I have to believe in at the moment.

So, me not believing in god is against my natural inclinations.

8-)

Keep on rocking in the free world...

30

Positive Name For ExJWs...?

by ISP in

jw
friends

i don't like the word apostate.......because it simply is not the case in so many cases.

i think the term 'truthseeker' would be better and quite annoying to jws who think they are!.

come on you truthseekers!.

Abaddon

xJW is a description. It is what we are. To attach any other word to it, other than semantic equivalents, like x-Borg, x-Witless, etc., is to risk, as other posters have pointed out, putting us in box which might not suit all of us.

I mean, look at us; we have science geeks, still-in-the-borg-for-family-reasons, assorted Christians, pagans, people who don't give a shit about what they believe, you name it...

We are all xJW's, or will be. But some name will imply we share things other than our former religious beliefs, which is not neccesarily true.

Anyway, xJW is only negative if you think of it as negative. I think it's positive to escape from a cult!

Keep on rocking in the free world...

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

Abaddon

D wiltshire

I am rather flabbergasted that you could find an apology in my last post. I pointed out that if you thought I was being rude, you were wrong. No apology there. I did say that I was sorry if you thought I was haughty; again, no apology as I have nothing to apologise for, I was just sorry that we obviously had misconceptions about each other. But if it makes you happy, I’m more than glad to move on.

You say ‘I hope you enjoyed our little sparring’. How can I have enjoyed it when you fail to engage in the debate?

This is the entire point people have been trying to make to you. What you think are clever questions and good answers are not. You have some knowledge, but the fact you ‘bait and switch’, never actually answering the responses to you properly, means it is impossible to have an enjoyable debate with you.

You bait and switch for one of two reasons. You might not want to engage in a debate, and just want attention (thus my suspicions over you being a troll). I hope not, but can you see why I have suspicions?

The other reason behind your actions might be that you get answers to your questions you don’t properly understand or think are ‘far out assumptions’ (because of lack of knowledge). At the same time these answers challenge your core beliefs. You don’t like that, it makes you feel insecure to know that not only did the Borg lie about god, but that god might be a lie.

So, rather than actually staying on that topic until it is fully discussed, you jump topics. You don’t like having your core beliefs challenged but cannot really engage in a meaningful debate about the science topics you raise, yet wish to convince yourself of your core belief’s rightness, so cannot stay on a topic and admit real lack of knowledge.

I touched on this in my last post to you, and as with many points made by several people, you just ignored on it.

I think you are being a little two faced doubting the sincerity of thousands of scientists. Why? Because you admit yourself you would rather think there was a god, but at the same time kid yourself that you are being fair and objective in your analysis of facts.

You are not. Anything that attacks your core beliefs is put under far greater scrutiny than things that conform to your core beliefs. Now, to an extent that is human, but I think you are not even allowing yourself to be remotely fair.

I don’t blame you questioning anything. But don’t pretend to be objective and interested in science if you already know the answer you want; it makes you look silly. Example;

What about the most common equation known to man: 0=0 or 0+0=0 or nothing from nothing is nothing. The theory of a singularity with no God as creator is the same as saying 0=1 or from nothing came something.

Hasn’t it occurred to you that the pre-existence of god is the assumption that something always existed or came from the nothing? You are criticising people for doing what YOU do.

So, let’s put the boot on the other foot.

What proof is there of the theory of god? For all your attack of scientific theories you seem to have an almost complacent acceptance of the theory of god, as you do not seem to seek the same proofs of that as you seek of scientific theories. In your answer please explain, if you are supporting the existence of a loving and concerned creator, why it is even possible to have a debate about IF there is a god and WHAT god wants.

In a Universe with a loving concerned creator these things should not be subject to the vagaries of belief, but should be as certain as the sunrise. They are not. Why? If you support the existence of a creator who is not concerned with us, please explain what this has to do with anything.

Keep on rocking in the free world...

2

Information about the Beast 666 - Who is Ruddy...

by Celtic in

jw
friends

sending through this twaddle?

for your information, i do not appreciate spam and unsolicited email coming through to my works address, please refrain immediately from sending through this garbage to me with immediate effect.. i do not appreciate either receiving the email addresses of others here without their personal invitation.. therefore, please stop sending through this crap.. peace.

celtic

Abaddon

I got it too; inconsiderate wankers... I got subscribed to som ghastly 'prayer-for-the-day' email too, by some person...

Just block the sod's email or email his ISP and complain about SPAM.

SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM

Keep on rocking in the free world...

40

Hi, newbie here

by ChimpGirl in

jw
friends

hi y'all from chimpgirl in the uk.

have been posting on support board for exjws for a year or so now and someone there pointed me in your direction.

glad i found ya!.

Abaddon

Hi Chimpy, good to see ya on Simon's board!

Glad thing are better for you; Mark2 is here as Celtic, and other from Tishie's board drop by.

Catch you soon...

Keep on rocking in the free world...

9

Chuckling at Simon's thread.

by LoneWolf in

jw
friends

"little things that annoy.

now, you sweet innocent ones aren't supposed to read this now, okay?.

simon wrote as one of those things that annoy:.

Abaddon

I have to say I approach this from another angle (one which my girlfriend shares).

What the hell does it matter if I look at another woman?

Obviously, if someone is gawking and leering, this could be offensive - to the woman being leered at if not anyone else. But a casual glance or look? If there is history of being unfaithfull, it might be reasonable for someone to be offended.

My dad might still be a dub, but he gave me two good pieces of advice about women. One was 'You can look at the flowers but don't eat them'. The other one was 'Look at the mothers'.

The first one is the point really. For all this talk about how a woman might feel insecure if her man looks at another woman, how about the man feeling as though he isn't trusted enough to look at another woman? We are talking about looking at something pretty. Wow! Major crime!

If a guy's faithfull and loving and attentive, what the HELL does it matter if he looks at a woman he finds attractive? Does any woman seriously think that turning ones' head as an attractive girl walks by means the man will copulate with her given the chance?

I'm not saying some guys wouldn't, given the opportunity. But if a woman is with a guy like that, what about when you are NOT there? Why are you with him ANYWAY?

I think it's a double standard. Maybe it is because many men are unsubtle; I don't think any woman will claim never to look at attractive men, it's just they are more subtle.

Keep on rocking in the free world...

23

Men Get 'Bulge' Jeans to Enhance Their Assets

by closer2fine in

jw
friends

http://news.excite.com/news/r/011110/07/odd-jeans-dc.

london (reuters) - women have been faking it for years thanks to the wondrous properties of the booster bra.

now men are getting in on the act with a new pair of jeans designed to maximize their "upfront" appeal.. jeans maker lee cooper says it has re-released its subtly named 1970s "packit" jeans -- redesigned to give every man the kind of eye-popping trouser frontage normally associated with mustachioed porn stars or a well-placed pair of socks.. "the bulge has become the fashion statement of the season," a spokeswoman for the company said.. "the (jeans) are designed for the ultimate in bulge enhancement...so men can put their assets on display.".

Abaddon

Personally speaking, I don't need them.

Not that I am that well endowed or anything.

I just have MASSIVE balls.

;-)

Lowering the tone boldly where no man has lowered the tone before...

Keep on rocking in the free world...

16

I would like some advice please!

by AmazingProgeny in

jw
friends

i have this situation with my husband that is really bugging me.

his parents are still jws.

they are the not-very-active-but-still-hard-liners type, especially his dad.

Abaddon

Howabout;

Sweetheart, I love you, but I hate lying for you. I also think its bad for you. JW's have this idea it's okay to lie for the right reasons... and maybe a little of that is still with you... I would love it if we could figure out another way. If you can't face them knowing, could YOU call them before you go out of town; it's your right to let them know or not, I wouldn't dream of disputing that, but if you'd tell them you were out of town for this reason or that reason, you wouldn't be getting me to lie for you.

Just an idea... even better if you can make him think he thought of it.

I know this because the ideas my girlfriend make me think I have are always good ones.

;-)

Keep on rocking in the free world...

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

Abaddon

D wiltshire;

I do not want to get into a arguement with you. You were rude, you said I had no solid facts, you CAPS LOCKED, so either you have poor social skills netwise and were rude by mistake (I notice you don't apologise... ), or you were deliberately being rude. Please save your proverbs about finger pointing; you claim you thought I was rude, pity you didn't bother calling me on it and just decided to be rude back.

When I said 'High School or sophomore', I was not indicating any doubt as to you finishing High School, but rather indicating I did not know where they cover this stuff in the US education system, whether it is covered in High Schools, or whether it is stuff covered in First Year at College. You obviously made some assumptions there that were wrong, and what's more seem to imply I am two-faced (saying 'without being rude' and then being rude would be two-faced).

Sorry if you think I am haughty, but hell, I think you're rude, so we'll just have to live with what we both think are the others misconceptions. The minute I thought you were being rude, I called you on it. Maybe that demonstrates the fact I wasn't being rude, or do you think I am that big a hypocrite?

You then take my description of a singularity and say I'm being dogmatic. You ask questions and snipe at the replies. How... well, words fail me... Sorry if an answer to a question sounds dogmatic to you, we don't all go round saying 'BUT WHY' or 'WHAT DOES THAT MEAN', some of us FIND OUT WHY. That way we can answer questions rather than asking them, or ask (BIG HINT HERE) better questions. Ooops. CAPS LOCK keeps slipping on. Funny how rudeness is catching, isn't it?

Then you completely twist this sentence;

Now, my level of understanding of the above physics is slightly better than your understanding of evolution I'd say, but I fully admit that's a vert layperson explination, so any one who can do better I salute and open the floor to, but, matter is ALL from the big bang, and that can be dated, so matter did not exist for ever.

You say this "Sound pretty dogmatic and self acrediting." I said, based on the fact you know virtually nothing about evolution, that I know slightly more about physics than you do about evolution. Wow, I am SO vain, saying I know slightly more than someone who knows virtually nothing.

Oh by-the-way, that was SARCASM. Ooops... more CAPS LOCK, see how annoying it is?

I also say that my explaination was a very layperson explination, as I am not a graduate in Physics, and that anyone who can do better can feel free. More of my vanity I suppose. I thought I was saying 'I can't explain this that brilliantly, jump in if you can do better'. Yet again you doubt me and cast aspertions upon my character without cause.

And yet agin, more accusations about being 'pretty dogmatic'. What IS your problem? You seem incapable of accepting that it is possible to know things with a high degree of certainty. If stating something with certainty because of what you know about that thing is dogmatic, well excuse me. Shit smells bad; dogmatic! Some people must like it. Horses have four legs; dogmatic! Some lose legs.

Maybe you'd rather we preface EVERY sentence with 'the current theories are' or some such. Well, some small scale DNA surveys have revealed that maybe upto 30% of people are actaully not fathered by their father, but by someone else. That might be just those surveys as it's not like they've done all the population. But maybe everyone should start saying 'this is probably my father' when they introduce him, unless they have had a DNA test to prove it, just so YOU DON'T CALL THEM DOGMATIC!

ARGH!

Notice you have not at any point accepted loads of well-intentioned people (that includes me despite your bad-mouthing me) pointing out that, maybe, just maybe, you need to read a book or two so you have a better basic understanding of the Sciences. You just repeat the uncontested fact you have a right to ask questions.

No one ever said you didn't. What some people have said is that maybe you'd be asking better, different questions if you knew more. And I suppose it is everyone elses' fault you are so intransigent? Or that some of your questions are pretty basic?

You say elsewhere that you are not trying to upset anyone, yet, as I said before, you smell more like a troll everyday. You are like someone who has never cut a piece of wood with a saw attacking the finer details of cabinet making.

In England we have a comedy program with a bumptious old fool who says 'You don't want to do it like that, you want to do it like this', before making it abundently clear he doesn't know what he's talking about. You are dangerously close to being that man.

I think maybe the problem here is that you have read enough to realise sub-conciously that god probably doesn't exist. But you are so pre-disposed to belief in god that you are fighting tooth and nail despite the facts that are already in your head. It's called cognotive dissonance, but I am sure you will just think I am being dogmatic and haughty by saying that.

I don't expect you to apologise for being rude; if you sincerely thought I was being rude, then you being rude back is no big thing. But, now I have explained myself, maybe we can get on better. If you don't doubt my motives, maybe I won't doubt yours.

If someone knew more about something than you, wouldn't you look stupid if you accused them of being dogmatic everytime they tried to teach you something?

edited for a major typo, but sod the little ones, I'm off home

88

If evolution is true ?

by D wiltshire in

jw
friends

if evolution is true and god doesnt exist, and all matter always existed, and life keeps adapting and getting more and more advanced, conquering all problems set before its existence.. then life should have already filled the entire universe and advanced to the point of never dying.. am i being presumptuous?.

.

if someone lived a trillion x longer than you, and had a billion x more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?.

Abaddon

D Wiltshire;

No you rude THING (I am so tempted to be as rude to you as you were to me, but I will not treat you that way even if you deserve it), I just have better things to do than spoon-feed physics to you. Maybe I don't obsessively follow the progres of posts I reply to at some point. Maybe I work, and post when I can during the working day. MAybe my life doesn't revolve around you, and the fact I don't get round to answering your questions is not an indication of the weakness of my arguement.

So, I suppose, having disrespected me, you still expect to be treated with respect and taken seriously? You smell more like a troll every day...

Well, I'll answer your question, but for the life of me I don't know why I bother as your attitude sucks. To reiterate; GO AND READ SOME BOOKS. YOU ARE NOT STUPID, BUT YOU ARE ASKING QUESTIONS THAT ARE BETTER ANSWERED BY YOU GETTING OFF YOUR FAT ASS AND DOING SOME WORK YOURSELF AND FILLING IN THE GAPS IN YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AS YOU NO LONGER HAVE 'SPIRITUAL FOOD' DELlVERED EACH FORTNIGHT IN THE WTACHTOWER AND AWAKE, YOU HAVE TO DO IT YOURSELF...

Oh, yeah, your question;

FACT; The Universe is expanding. I could explain red-shift, blue-shift, radio telescopes and doppler, but I refuse to as if you can't be bothered finding out I can't be bothered telling you. If you dispute this fact, you do so from the same level as a Neolithic hunter gather refusing to accept an scientific explaination of electricity as he didn't understand it.

FACT; This indicates it started at a certain point and time. Deductive knowledge, you have a brain, you don't need a book for that one.

FACT; The maths of the equations that explain this process of expansion has been tested in particle accelerators to duplicate the very high temperature present at that time (as the Universe was smaller, but still contained the same amount of energy, so it was hotter as the energy was less spread out). So, I wasn't there, but some guys have made it like it was then, and their sums work. You wanna challenge them? GO TO COLLEGE.

FACT; We cannot duplicate the first second or so as we don't have powerful enough particle accelerators, so, yes, there is theory involved. But not a lot of unsubstanciated theory.

FACT; Even IF the Universe contains enough mass to collapse in on itself (want me to explain gravity? NO! Go buy a book!), it will contract to a singularity (explained by other people... if you even bother to read the difficult parts of the answers to your posts) and probably do it all again, so at this stage whether the universe expands or contacts is irrelevant, as it started the same way either way if this is a expanding only Universe or one where the Universe expands and contracts.

FACT; Once everything is scrunched together, matter ceases to exist, as it is too hot; solids become liquids, yeah? And liquids become gases, yeah? And a gas when heated will become a plasma, like a gas, but with all the atoms so hot and excited they begin to break up into their constituent parts. These constituent parts (electrons, protons, neutrons) can in turn breakdown. This process is all part of the wonderful chain connecting matter to energy.

Thus, when this Universe exploded, it had no matter. The matter appeared as the explosion cooled as it expanded. Want proof things get hot when compressed? Put your finger over the hole of a bicycle pump and pump it. First elementary particles (want a definition, buy a book), then hydrogen and helium (heavier elements come from solar fusion; we are star dust, billion year-old carbon, all the heavy elements in your body were once in the hearts of stars).

It doesn't matter if the Universe was exploding having contracted or whether it was the first time. The matter came into being after the explosion;

THEREFORE MATTER DIDN'T ALWAYS EXIST

Whether or not there are other Universes is utterly irrelevent to your original question. I think you are better of understanding this one before you worry about that.

Sorry if I sound pissed off, but your manners SUCK. Act like a pig, get treated like one, be nice get treated nice, very simple, works in real life and on line.

Be happy

Keep on rocking in the free world...