Posts by RobCrompton

25

When was the significance of the year 1919 first stated?

by jwfacts in

.

when was it first introduced that the watchtower organisation was chosen in 1919?

i expect this was something first published under rutherford, as a way of making his leadership more important than that of russell, but would like some evidence to back that claim up.. .

RobCrompton

As far as I can tell, this was fairly blurred for a long period - and probably still is. Rutherford's book, Riches, (1936) introduced the idea (using the principle of types and antitypes) of an "Elisha" work beginning in 1919 following on from the "Elijah" work of the preceding period.

So when was the "faithful and discreet slave" appointed? That was never clarified - this was my summary in 1996:

"The doctrine of the "faithful and discreet slave" allows room for the view that the Watch Tower movement, as constituted under Russell's leadership, was already Jehovah's organisation, and that its commissioning for the prophetic role of the antitypical Ezekiel did not amount to its first becoming Jehovah's organisation." (Counting the days to Armageddon, p121.)

The trouble was that every item in Russell's end-time calendar had been reassigned a date in a new calendar beginning (instead of ending) in 1914. But Russell's understanding of his movement's place in the divine plan could not similarly be transferred to the new era without throwing away the foundation on which Rutherford had built. So this problem was left unresolved. And it looks like the Wise Old Men are only now getting around to tidying things up. To get away with it they will need Russell to be completely erased from their history.

27

Do you give thanks for every meal?

by bruh in

do you give thanks for every meal or do you thank god once for the whole day of meals???

is thanking god for every meal scriptural or something that came along in early christianity ?

?.

RobCrompton

At home we would never "give thanks" "say grace", "ask a blessing" or whatever. But when I was in theological college grace was always said prior to tucking into our meal in the dining hall. For the evening meal there would be about fifty or more diners (other colleges joined us) and when we were ready to start, the catering manager who had prepared the meal would walk up to one of the seated diners and place a small handbell in front of them. That meant you were the one who would say grace. So, if you get the bell, you stand, ring the bell to bring the chattering crowd to order and then say grace in whatever style you preferred. And then we all tucked in to the food.

Then, at the end of the meal, we had another acknowledgment to the almighty. The person who had been picked by the catering manager would stand and give thanks once again, but this time it always followed the same pattern. You would say, "Let us bless the Lord," to which the satisfied diners would respond with, "Thanks be to God." And then we would all rush off to whatever we we planning to do next.

I really loved that routine. Even now as barely any sort of believer, I miss that. (It's a bit different from JW style prayers though - which I don't miss at all!)

1

Matthew 11:12

by RobCrompton in

a days or so ago, never a jw posted a question about the translation of matthew 11:12. that set me off thinking as a result of which i've posted some notes on my blog:.

http://cromptonsmule.blogspot.com.

thanks, nev, for raising the question!.

RobCrompton

A days or so ago, never a jw posted a question about the translation of Matthew 11:12. That set me off thinking as a result of which I've posted some notes on my blog:

http://cromptonsmule.blogspot.com

Thanks, Nev, for raising the question!

40

Blood sausage

by stillin in

while visiting our neighbors across the pond, i visited a butcher store to rustle up something for supper.

that was the first time i had ever seen blood sausage.

we just never see it over here in the states.. when a witness leaves the organization over there, do they all eat blood sausage once again?

RobCrompton

Lois, yes black pudding is fairly popular but you probably wouldn't get that full traditional breakfast in most homes, except perhaps at weekends as a special treat. If you stay in an English hotel and ask for a full English breakfast, that's what you will get. No need for a biglunch that day! Sunflower oil is usually used for frying though lard was used when I was a kid.

40

Blood sausage

by stillin in

while visiting our neighbors across the pond, i visited a butcher store to rustle up something for supper.

that was the first time i had ever seen blood sausage.

we just never see it over here in the states.. when a witness leaves the organization over there, do they all eat blood sausage once again?

RobCrompton

Black pudding (I don't think anyone ever actually calls it blood sausage) is served traditionally with an English breakfast - eggs, bacon, pork sausage, tomatoes, baked beans, black pudding and fried bread. It can be quite nice if it's properly fried and it's very peppery. Don't much like the texture, though, and the thought of the ingredients puts me off - nothing to do with biblical strictures. I would usually ask for extra beans instead.

7

Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT

by never a jw in

new world translation version ii:.

"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".

new international version:.

RobCrompton

It appears that the version you quoted from is the 2011 edtion. I'm not sure why the translators decided to go with this very different rendering in the new edition, which doesn't seem to me to fit with the idea of "from the days of John the Baptist..." Now if it had been "from the days of John Hyrcanus..." that would be different - Hyrcanus being the Maccabean leader who established the Hasmonean dynasty. That is, the kings following the restoration of the monarchy were not legitimate heirs of the Davidic dynasty.

Now you've set me off wondering whether there might have been an earlier, very different saying underlying what has come to us in Matthew 11:12 because the 2011 rendering would seem to reflect the attitude that the leaders of Judaism at the time of Jesus were illegitimate and due to give way to Messiah, the rightful king.

7

Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT

by never a jw in

new world translation version ii:.

"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".

new international version:.

RobCrompton

Interesting one. I can see that there could be some justification for using quotes around "Samuel" on the grouds that what is seen is a ghost, a disembodied spirit, or an apparition.

To the ancient mind, though, the ghost or whatever is genuinely Samuel himself, whereas to the JW reader it has to be a demon in the shape of Samuel. So the quotes which the NWT use nudge the JW reader towards an interpretation of the story which would not have been in the mind of the writer. Hmmm, this could open up a long discussion about how narratives convey meaning, and convey different meanings in different contexts and cultures.

7

Anyone knows why Matthew 11:12 is translated so differently in NWT

by never a jw in

new world translation version ii:.

"from the days of john the baptist until now, the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it".

new international version:.

RobCrompton

Which edition of NIV are you using? Mine (1985 study edition) has "... kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing and forceful men lay hold of it."

Zerwickand Grosvenor's "Grammatical Analysis of the Greek NT" (a must-have for wannabe translators) gives this note on the verse: "Biazomai... use force, force one's way... suffer violence, here as in (Luke 16:16) it isdisputed whether this force is to be understood as hostile or praiseworthy."

This is one of those instances where the translator has to make a judgement about the likely intended meaning. So I don't think the NWT can be criticised for their rendering. Other translations give the same sense to the verse.

406

ex-jw-uk

by bigmac in

jw
friends

i'm quite new to this site, & have realised some members have a union jack symbol under their avatar.

i don't.. could we have a "show of hands" from any uk members?

i've already found several by reading older posts..

RobCrompton

Stretford, Salford, Clydebank, Stretford - all way back in the 60s

Recently moved from Cardiff to Leominster, Herefordshire.

Coffee, anyone?

13

The epitome of narcissism

by Separation of Powers in

there are several disturbing things that were said in the latest annual meeting.

one of the most disturbing was a comment made by david splane.

he made reference to how the clergy "howled" when the first new world bible translation committee produced the first nwt.

RobCrompton

Before the NWT Committee could even begin work on their own version, a truly massive amount of scholarship had gone into the compiling of the master texts from the mind-bogglingly huge number of mss and fragments. The NWT is utterly dependent upon this textual scholarship. Any committee of translators ought to recognise their indebtedness to this scholarship and ought to be in a position to demonstrate that their own expertise is worthy of the task they have taken upon themselves. If they insist upon concealing their identity and their credentials they have no right to be taken seriously.