Posts by kaik

24

Watchtower Changes. Why

by new hope and happiness in

following on from a recent post that asked for a list of the watchtower changers since you left, it would be intetesting to compile the list with why the changes were made.. .

kaik

I do remember some of them like:

Sodom and Gomorrah will never be resurrected ? yes no yes no no no!
Adam and Eve will not be resurrected
Judas Iscariot will not be resurrected
DF woman who during rape did not screem = yes no yes no
Small group bible study at home banned
Two generations that overlap
Women should not wear pearls
Husband and wife can engage only in missionary position
Exercise is worthless as it takes you from valuable field service
Men should never had long hair, bolding men are superior leaders

74

Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly in

wtbts published a new article on jw.org (http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/) entitled "what does bible chronology indicate about the year 1914?

" in it, it points to daniel 4 as the prophecy and uses the same leaps of insane logic to get from the first and only fulfillment of that prophecy to 1914, using 607 as the starting point and 2,520 years as doubling the 1,260 years in revelation.

of course, there is no accounting for the difference in our solar years and the bible's lunar years, which makes the math have a very different outcome.

kaik

I am trying to decipher the diagrams regarding to 1881 nonsense. Russell wrotes:

The harvesting of the wheat of the Jewish age lasted for several years, beginning with our Lord's ministry, though all the special favor ceased three and a half years after the death of Christ.
And the three and a half years following the Spring of A.D. 1878, which ended October, A.D. 1881, correspond to the three and a half years of continued favor to individual Jews in the last half of their seventieth week of favor.
That "seventieth week," with all the particulars of the testing of Fleshly Israel, not only accomplished the purpose of testing that system, but it also and specially furnished a typical representation of a similar testing of the nominal Gospel Church or Spiritual Israel, called "Christendom" and "Babylon," during seven corresponding years, which began the harvest of the Gospel age--the period from October 1874 to October 1881.
The last half of Israel's covenant week (3 1/2 years, from A.D. 33 to 36) was not a period of national or sectarian favor, but of individual favor, granting the Israelites (not as formerly through the channels of the nominal Church, but individually, if they would receive it) all the favors and special privileges of the Abrahamic covenant, down to the end of those seventy symbolic weeks, the limit of their favor, marked by the sending of favor to Cornelius and Gentiles in general. So in the parallel, here: the 3 1/2 years from April, 1878, where so-called Christendom, or "Babylon," was rejected from favor, to October, 1881, was the closing period of the favor of the high calling to individual believers. Thus, the general "call" (the favor of this Gospel age) ceased with October, A.D. 1881, just as the corresponding date, October, A.D. 36, witnessed the end of Jewish favor.
Prof. Smyth found the first of these measures (a) to be 1874 Pyramid inches, the second (b), 1881 Pyramid inches, and the third (c), 1910 Pyramid inches ... The Pyramid thus says to us, "Seven years before the close of the high calling [before October, 1881] the great One from the heavens will enter."

So, I have read several dozen pages, but I have not seen anywhere in Russells writting that would derive 1881 from biblical scriptures, as there is no any reference to biblical text. On the end he mentions that he came to this conclusion from his pyramid measure.

33

Today I Da'd -Twenty-five years ago. Regrets -some.

by Xanthippe in

yes twenty-five years ago today we sent in our da letter.

some regrets, not about leaving the cult obviously, but sometimes when i read about people slowly fading and keeping in touch with family and friends i wonder if we should have done that.

of course it was before the internet in 1989 so we didn't know about people fading.. one day we were driving along and we had been talking about moving congregations because we knew something was wrong but of course we thought it was local.

kaik

JW religion breaks families appart as a proof of their choosen status. They pride themselves for choosing religion over having strong family bonds
JW does not prepare individuals for usefull skills for the community. There is no support for education, trade, skills, and hobbies. How would JW manage running Jesus kingdom when half of them are illiterate, do not know calculus or physics, cannot operate machinery?
The entire effort and free time is dedicated in distributing their publication. This does not leave any money, effort, desires, and needs for charity, social services, and welfare of their members
JW religion never accepts responsibility for anything, for their failed prophecies, pedophile scandals, stealing funds, and misuse of the KH property for personal use
JW does care about well being of its members, as the community and WT needs supercedes the needs of individuals.

LongHairGal

In Czech Republic JW and Bethel was engaged in illegal money laundering, stealing of funds, taking loans without paying them back, running brothels, etc. It was investigated and prosecuted by Czech police, and Brooklyn only shuffled couple elders around and DFs two or three. It was also published in the Czech media. The JW community instead cleaning their barn and pig stay roared that they being attacked by Satan and that the end was in the hands as a proof of the Tribulation. Yet everyone in the KH knew that the elders were stealing money. My cousins borrowed money from the banks and engaged in tax and banking fraud until police were after them. They though that the Armageddon will come sooner before their loans would be due. They are still elders because they produces bunch of children who made with their inlaws half of the KH in the city. My former KH has tax lien on it, it is virtually bancrupted, yet the elders and the DO drives Audi, Mercedez-Benz, and other expensive cars. They ask members for duing their laundry, cleaning, and cooking or taking them into expensive restaurants; and they justify that the elders are busy to do field work and need quality services for their missionary work. Thanks Lord I walked away from this fraud 20 years ago and they have not get any more money out of me.

48

Do you pray over your meals? If so why? If not, when did you stop and why?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

to answer my question, no i do not pray over meals anymore exept for when i am with other jws i do a 15 second head bow for appearances sake.

i just came to the realization god had nothing to do with whether i ate or not.

many believers are starving right now whilst many non-believers are eating like kings.. also why should god give me food while he lets little children in dprk concentration camps starve to death.

kaik

I do not pray and I think it is nonsense. The food I have is not for free. I had to work to earn money to get the food and sometimes I must cook for hours to make great meal for my family. It did not fall from the sky, nobody helped me to get it into pot and table. I am annoyed when people pray around food as it was a gift yet they paid for it. It was not free. I had evangelical coworker and we went to lunch together. His CC was declined and I paid for his lunch. Instead thanking me and offering me to pay next lunch or reimburse me (I would not really care as the amount would not break me), he started to make rain dances around the table and thanking Jesus that he got lunch from him. When I pointed to him that I paid for it as a gesture of good will, he said that it was will of Jesus. He never thanked me and never invited me for lunch as payback. If you pray for food that you paid and made for, there is old Czech saying "Lets hope God knocks it out of your mouth".

22

Where can I get a copy of the finished mystery without paying an arm and leg.

by dogon in

where do you guys find old tower books and material other than flea bay and their outragous prices?

looking for some of the old books..

kaik

I have electronic version that I had downloaded from the web. I was looking for some hard copy originals. From time to time I see them on Amazon where people will sell them if their relatives died and had collection of all the publications. Some people sell entire libraries under 50.

45

I am having trouble believing in God...

by thedepressedsoul in

i was raised a jw and i am still one but recently i have been having trouble believing in a god.

this is not meant to offend anyone who does, i am just curious to see if i am the only one who thinks this..... to start, i am a very black and white person.

if 1+1=2 it makes sense to me and i can agree with it.

kaik

I still believe in the existence of Higher Being, but not in the existence of Christian God or nor I believe that Bible is true word of God. I think it is normal to doubt. I agree with Marcus Aurelius reasoning:

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”

33

Today I Da'd -Twenty-five years ago. Regrets -some.

by Xanthippe in

yes twenty-five years ago today we sent in our da letter.

some regrets, not about leaving the cult obviously, but sometimes when i read about people slowly fading and keeping in touch with family and friends i wonder if we should have done that.

of course it was before the internet in 1989 so we didn't know about people fading.. one day we were driving along and we had been talking about moving congregations because we knew something was wrong but of course we thought it was local.

kaik

In April it will be 20 years what I walked away. I was born into it, so I did not had much choice. My father studied for JW but backed off around 1975, but my mother continued under influence of my aunt and her extensive family. My father went into opposition as a bigoted catholic and eventually moved to his mother without ever divorcing. My father died without much us around and I regret that I was not there in the last years of his life. My JW aunt attempted to distrupt funeral of my father and made scene and other improper gestures that we had to leave the service. Someone also stole my father posessions during the funeral including his engaging ring that was taken from his corpse. When she died, I did not went to her funeral. My aunt was scheming and dishonest person who produced several of her sons into elders that lead KH in my native country. They borrowed money from banks and engaged in tax fraud in hope that big "A" will rescue them from the debt. Eventually the law caught up with them, yet they still are elders.

My other parent remarried in faith, but the bitterness stayed in me since nobody in KH cared about our struggle. Everything was just formality, asking for money and donations while elders live in life of relative luxury in Eastern Europe, driving expensive cars, while we did not have enough to bring on dinner table. After memorial in 1994, I just had enough of all this hypocrisy, lies, and spiritual nonsense; and I had left and never look back. I moved accross the globe and started my own life and family. My JW family disappeared from my life for several years without no contact or interest in me until financial troubles started to hunt them. Without having doctrinal, totalitarian aunt controlling their life, their views bit liberated, but we had not discussed faith for almost 20 years until last summer. I do not think my parents would leave as they are too old, around 80 and afraid to lose access to grandchildren as my siblings are in and still supportive.

I regret that my father did not had more influence over the event when we were small and was not smart enough to outmanevour my aunt from influencing us and enticing us to KH. As a child I did not had choice. I regret that I could not pursue competitive sports as I was extremely talented and athletic and had excellent coaches that would make it worth a while. While other kids played hockey, were winning swimming or running competition, I was going with elders into field service. There are things that they cannot be ever fixed and taken back. My father is dead, and I barely remember his voice. I live thousands miles aways from where I was born, had to start from nothing when I arrived into new country with just one bag.

Nobody should see their family fall apart for the sake of religious publishing house. Nobody should see their family to slip into poverty while dedicating income into KH where elders drive Audi and MB, while they do not have money for prescription. Nobody should be spiritually raped as JW did to me, when they damaged spiritual attachment to God.

74

Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly in

wtbts published a new article on jw.org (http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/) entitled "what does bible chronology indicate about the year 1914?

" in it, it points to daniel 4 as the prophecy and uses the same leaps of insane logic to get from the first and only fulfillment of that prophecy to 1914, using 607 as the starting point and 2,520 years as doubling the 1,260 years in revelation.

of course, there is no accounting for the difference in our solar years and the bible's lunar years, which makes the math have a very different outcome.

kaik

I am not sure where Russell came to 1881 based on the biblical text. He mentions that the general calling of God is seven years and was closed in 1881. He mention that Jews had seven years of calling during the life of Chris, but I cannot deduct was it seven years including Jesus ministry or seven years after his death. When I finish reading his crazy nonsense, I will post my finding. The guy was definitely in need of some professional help.

74

Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly in

wtbts published a new article on jw.org (http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/daniel-4-bible-chronology-1914/) entitled "what does bible chronology indicate about the year 1914?

" in it, it points to daniel 4 as the prophecy and uses the same leaps of insane logic to get from the first and only fulfillment of that prophecy to 1914, using 607 as the starting point and 2,520 years as doubling the 1,260 years in revelation.

of course, there is no accounting for the difference in our solar years and the bible's lunar years, which makes the math have a very different outcome.

kaik

Russell in his The Time is at the Hand writes:

As shown in the accompanying diagram, the period of their favor, from the commencement of their national existence at the death of Jacob, down to the end of that favor at the death of Christ, A.D. 33, was eighteen hundred and forty-five (1845) years; and there their "double" (mishneh)--the repetition or duplication of the same length of time, eighteen hundred and forty-five (1845) years, without favor--began. Eighteen hundred and forty-five years since A.D. 33 shows A.D. 1878 to be the end of their period of disfavor. A.D. 33 plus 1845 = A.D. 1878.

He came to 1845 years as twice the age of dispersions:

"And first [before the favor will come] I will recompense their iniquity and their sin double." The Hebrew word here rendered "double" is mishneh, and signifies a second portion, a repetition. Thus understood, the Prophet's declaration is, that from the time of their being cast off from all favor until the time of their return to favor would be a repetition, or duplication in time, of their previous history, during which time they had enjoyed divine favor.

Israel's dispersion among all nations since the close of their 1845 years of favor, and no other of their captivities, fits this pointed expression--a land which ye and your fathers have not known. So then this, together with the no favor, positively marks this prophecy as relating to Israel's present dispersion among all nations.

ISRAEL AFTER THE FLESH:
From the Death of Jacob to the Cross, the Period of Favor to the Nominal House of Servants, 1845 Years, Followed by the Exaltation of a Faithful Few,
and by Casting off, Trouble and Judgments upon the Others

ISRAEL AFTER THE SPIRIT:
From the Death of Jesus to A.D. 1878, the Period of Favor to the Nominal House of Sons, 1845 Years Followed by the Exaltation of a Faithful Few,
and by Casting off, Trouble and Judgments upon the Others

Russell believed that the dispersions started:

with Length of Favor 1845 Years, from Jacob's Death to Israel's Rejection and the Beginning of Spiritual Israel, A.D. 33

Length of Favor, 1845 Years, from Jesus' Death to the Beginning of Christ's Reign and the Rejection of Babylon, A.D. 1878

137

3 years of study, Just found out!

by impala63rag in

jw
friends

hello friends, .

i would like some advice from those that are inpartial, and are familiar with the teachings of jw.

i studied with a wonderful jw couple weekly for 3 years.

kaik

JW do not believe that person can read bible on his own and develop a personal relationship with God and Creator. They see higher priority in developing relationship with WT as their imaginary arc in the sea of Satan. They expect that everything will be served to you by the GB and the laiks will accept whatever spiritual food is served regardless what the conciense says. It becomes much easier as JW do not need a critical thinking and analytical skills. Since the time of the ancient Israel, Jews were not unified on interpretation of the Old Testament, and Christianity is struggling with the same issues for 2000 years. Yet JW thinks that they can and will answer any problems and issues using Scriptures regardless what hundreds of years of studies by others was not accomplished. Once anyone question the spiritual food even in good faith, he or she will be labeled as apostate and will be isolated or DF's. This makes critical analysis of OT and NT difficult as many are afraid to find something that is against JW teaching. As I child we had home based bible studies, we had only one copy of WT and we had to share it. JW was illegal, and we had to use scriptures. Later in the 1980's, home based bible studies were forbidden. I am actually amazed that my parents that could find anything in the bible 30 years ago could not recollect today even common passages like Jesus and Samaritan woman by the well. Yet they know almost any WT theme between then and last Sunday.