Posts by TTATTelder

35

Critical Differences: JW's Today Vs The Past

by metatron in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses have always been a fringe, anti-intellectual movement, almost by definition.

there is nothing new about faddish health concerns, attitudes that ignore history and science or even beliefs that defy common sense ( false prophecy for what, 130+ years?).

however, there are two differences with jw's of the past that will prove critical for the survival of the organization today.. 1) poor financial conditions - in the past, it was possible to hold all sorts of nonsensical beliefs and still be a functional member of the human race, generally.

TTATTelder

I agree wholeheartedly. The org attracts the lower rung individual that need a community.

I have been shocked at how much money is a constant issue in our hall.

Some poor (no money) friends go out in service all the time. They don't work so have plenty of free time, but they also only have transportation good enough to get to the hall.

The publishers or pioneers with decent means and/or transportation are then obligated to cart these rejects around for free. (don't expect any gas money).

There's nothing going in the contribution box from these types - you can bet on it.

The org has painted themselves into a corner. They sacrificed people of financial means to keep an uneducated throng under their control.

Even with that said, it's shocking to me that they are still doing all these downsizing measures after raking in a cool billion off of real estate. The financial problems must be much bigger than I realize. Either that or this current GB is paranoid about preserving their gravy train till they die.

Intellectual honesty demands acknowledging that financial problems do not equal God's blessing.

40

Letter to Governing Body .Recorded conversations with Elders

by Watchtower-Free in

i found this on youtube...very good example of twisted reasoning by elders.. .

recorded conversations with elders by a former pioneer....a series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw8amuphqis.

TTATTelder

really good stuff - worth a listen

the accused brother really keeps his head and, in a respectful way, makes the brothers and the organization look absolutey laughable.

Elders should just say - "the governing body demands conformity - are you in or out?" When they try to go down this long road of predictable scriptures in a meager attempt to justify it all, it just becomes an embarrassing mess.

26

Critical Thinking from the Wife !!

by TTATTelder in

the other day i had a couple of drinks and went off on the gb (again), about how they are just posturing and have no clue.

i said if they knew what they were talking about we would already be in the new world, but we're not ..so they dont...the end.. well i got some push back as would be expected, but what surprised me was what she said a little later.

firstly she didn't pay attention to the public talk this past sunday and instead read an article in a watchtower on stress.

TTATTelder

Ask her why skunks have smells, turtles have shells, porcupines have quills, and snakes have venom? - Comatose

Good points.

Why would God make animals with poisonous venom that can kill other animals and even humans if the original intent was to be in a peaceful vegetarian paradise?

Fairy tales don't explain it, that's for sure.

34

Pondering Noah account

by problemaddict in

jw
friends

i see my wife being pulled into the org a little again, by some good people and kindness.

she grew up a very happy jw, and to leave is very hard for her.

but she has opened the pandoras box of her brain and can't shut it.. we were discussing blood a couple days ago.

TTATTelder

There are so many holes in that story it's mind-boggling it is believed by anybody.

Good point though.

I guess the logic went something like this:

"Since we have the only initial stock for all animals of the planet.... LET'S HAVE A BBQ!!!!!!!

26

Critical Thinking from the Wife !!

by TTATTelder in

the other day i had a couple of drinks and went off on the gb (again), about how they are just posturing and have no clue.

i said if they knew what they were talking about we would already be in the new world, but we're not ..so they dont...the end.. well i got some push back as would be expected, but what surprised me was what she said a little later.

firstly she didn't pay attention to the public talk this past sunday and instead read an article in a watchtower on stress.

TTATTelder

Wow Villagegirl ... sorry for your past abuse from men.

We aren't all like that.

My comments in the OP weren't from being surprised my wife's comments came from a woman (that feels stupid even typing that) but because they were critical and completely free of my influence.

Everyone else got it.

Its a good thing. .... Looking forward to future observations from her.

I agree with BU2B all the way.

Thanks for the comments everybody.

26

Critical Thinking from the Wife !!

by TTATTelder in

the other day i had a couple of drinks and went off on the gb (again), about how they are just posturing and have no clue.

i said if they knew what they were talking about we would already be in the new world, but we're not ..so they dont...the end.. well i got some push back as would be expected, but what surprised me was what she said a little later.

firstly she didn't pay attention to the public talk this past sunday and instead read an article in a watchtower on stress.

TTATTelder

The other day I had a couple of drinks and went off on the GB (again), about how they are just posturing and have no clue. I said if they knew what they were talking about we would already be in the new world, but we're not ..so they dont...the end.

Well I got some push back as would be expected, but what surprised me was what she said a little later. Firstly she didn't pay attention to the public talk this past Sunday and instead read an article in a watchtower on stress.

I commended her. The talk was a bit of a snooze and I said "better to make good use of the time in some way"

This is what blew me away though... She was reading in the article about how our brain has particular funtions that kick in during stressful, dangerous, or emergency situations and how that is a helpful, practical part of how our minds were created. The malfunction, as explained, comes in when our body/mind stay in this state unnecessarily for prolonged periods of time. This leads to health issues involving stress and anxiety.

But here's the kicker... she said "Why would Jehovah create us this way if we were supposed to live in a paradise?"

WTH !!!!!!! .... In other words - Why would we have brain functions to handle danger and distress - even life threatening emergencies - if we were supposed to be skipping around pettiing pandas?

I tried to play it cool, but I was screaming inside. I just said, "That is a very good question."

Honestly it shocked the hell out of me. Not only does it speak to critical thinking and doubt on her part, but it is a thought I seriously have never had before! She'd poking her own holes in the theology! Un -freaking-believable (in my world).

What do you guy's think? Have you ever had that thought or similiar? I found it quite a good point especially coming from my uber dub wife.

I just had to share and any thoughts would be appreciated.

107

Will firing the DOs be the first step to a new Watchtower?

by Juan Viejo2 in

against my better judgement, i've decided to share the following as a response to guy pierce passing and the announcement of the elimination of district overseers later this year.. late in january (2014) i got an email from one of my contacts (a fader) who served at bethel for several years, but is no longer at wt hq.

he still has a lot of close contacts within the service department and in other departments at patterson and knows people in all of the ny offices.

i kept this email set aside on a flash drive and haven't shared it with anyone - figuring i'd publish an article about it later this year when i had more time to do it right.

TTATTelder

Thanks Juan and thanks to Brother X.

Interesting stuff. I think the 144,000 thing is slowly being tested/implemented IMO. You can see it in the language being used now and the absence of statements about the number being filled that were so common before. I think if the number of partakers had dropped this past year, they would have been ok to ignore the subject. With it continuing to grow as a marked trend, they have to address it in some way.

I recently pointed out the larger 'partaker' number in 2013 to my wife and another elder's wife.

The other sister defended it as, "Maybe there are spots reserved for those who live right before the end and maybe this actually means we are just that close!"

But after hearing herself, she simply said with a sigh, "But who knows, that's just all I've got"

We didn't say much - I was just floating it out there. Interesting to see people when they are forced to actually think about these things. The meetings are such robotic rah- rah sessions that never allow actual personal thought.

It is surprising about the DO's. I just found the letter on the site myself. It's funny... I'm an elder and I hear about things on this site before I see it on jw.org or hear about it from anyone on the body. Obvious the downsizing is continuing. Closed branches all over the world. Selling off of property. Retiring CO's and possibly others at 70. Now eliminating a level of management with by canning DO's. Again plainly cost-cutting, efficiency measures.

I think more will wake up from these changes. The org will prob begin shrinking in the western countries. The GB must already know that. That would be one logical explanation for all the downsizing.

I am reminded of Bono's line - The God I believe in isn't short on cash.

Hard to claim God's backing when downsizing is such an obvious priority.

13

"Jehovah's Witnesses" among most controversial articles on Wikipedia

by ILoveTTATT in

jw
friends

here's an interesting article:.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/08/daily-chart-1.

among the french-language wikipedia articles, at least, "jehovah's witnesses" is among the most-changed articles on wikipedia.

TTATTelder

interesting

27

For those who still attend- When was the last time you had a Congregation Picnic or Get together?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

it seems that in my neck of the woods there is no social interaction between jws outisde of fs and the kh.

the last get together was 3 summers ago.

other than that there is no bond.

TTATTelder

BU2B,

No real rules that I can think of. Everybody was just wearing the normal ultra conservative attire. Also it was a windy, overcast day and had just recently rained, so the normal fun-in-the-sun wasn't in play.

My experience overall has been a reduction in these congregation events though. I think Blondie made some good points about why that may be.

I observe a general zombie-like feel to the friends overall. People are just going through the motions. The old confidence of the Franz 80's that I remember as a kid is long gone.

The cong is also such a mixed bag of education, financial means, personalities, and even mental/ emotional health. People usually find those they can deal with and associate occasionally with them.

27

For those who still attend- When was the last time you had a Congregation Picnic or Get together?

by BU2B in

jw
friends

it seems that in my neck of the woods there is no social interaction between jws outisde of fs and the kh.

the last get together was 3 summers ago.

other than that there is no bond.

TTATTelder

We actually had one late last summer. We are by a beach so beach volleyball was main activity.