Posts by Myxomatosis

15

Existing in the nature of God

by ClassAvenger in

i preached to a jw and they used the following verse against me:

phi 2:6

"who existing in the nature of god, did not consider being equal to god something to be held onto," he said that this was one of the texts that disproved the trinity because it does not state that he was god, but that he existed in the nature of god: divine.

Myxomatosis

Myxomatosis,

I was interested to read your last post that Jesus went round telling people that he was the ego eimi ho ohn.

Can you tell me where in scripture Jesus said he was or described himself as ' ego eimi ho ohn' ?

Dean.

What was he crucified for?

Jesus' case is unique because it wasn't because of His actions that he was being tried, but His identity, it'd be like trying an androgynous looking person as to whether they were a girl or a guy, not if they had vandalized property, or robbed a bank or something.

But to answer the question directly...the MOST explicit (if you don't mind if I also tell you that He said day by day that He was "Ego Eimi" with regards to His relation to the Father...)

Ok, so, the record in Scripture is this..

John 8:48

"The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?"

"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

"At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"

"Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

"You are not yet fifty years old," The Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM" (Ego Eimi [ho ohn]) or the Hebrew "Ani Hu" which is a surrogate for the Divine name in the OT YHWH.

ei\pen aujtoi'ß #Ihsou'ß, #Amh;n ajmh;n levgw uJmi'n, pri;n #Abraa;m genevsqai ejgw; eijmiv.
ego

1. I, me, my

eimi

1. to be, to exist, to happen, to be present

before Abraham was, I exist, I happen, I am pressent, I AM.

"at this they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds."

Why did they want to stone Him?

There are only five reasons for STONING in old Jewish law, though there are many more capital forms of punishment.

Jesus was not admitting adultery, which is one.

The only one that Jesus could be found guilty of the penalty for stoning at this stage is: BLASPHEMY

Not only was He claiming to know and if you will, succeed in age that of Abraham, He was claiming the name of God, and the self existence that name carries.

That is among the most explicit of Jesus claims.

Everything must be looked at from an understanding of the Jewish law and perspective. For example, another time Jesus claimed deity, which was immediately recognised by the JEWS, for there were certain things that God had laid down to Him that they should not do, and He was permitted.

John 5: 16

"So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working." For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself

EQUAL WITH GOD."

How many times did Jesus call YHWH "My Father"?

This was understood by the Jews perfectly.

He was making Himself equal with God by His words, actions, and claims.

Now, there is another of Jesus claims as explicit as found in John 8.

"If you do not believe that I Am, you will indeed die in your sins" (John 8:24).

Again Jesus claims the name for Himself. He doesn't say I am a Hebrew, or I am the Christ, He uses the name God gave to Moses, name of self existence.

"When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I Am and that I do nothing on my own..." (John 8:28).

Check out all the times He says "I Am" in John 8.

And last. Jesus claimed equality with God in less explicit ways quite often.

For example

say there was an emporer that was in charge of the earth

What If I said that if you did not honor ME, you did not honor Him? What If I said that everything He did I did? What If I were to say to the people standing in front of me that "everyone who sees me has seen the emporer" and that the "emporer and I are ONE" ?

What would I be saying about myself in relation to the emporer?

Ok, that's what I know anyways. Did that answer your question a bit?

love

Myxomatosis

15

Existing in the nature of God

by ClassAvenger in

i preached to a jw and they used the following verse against me:

phi 2:6

"who existing in the nature of god, did not consider being equal to god something to be held onto," he said that this was one of the texts that disproved the trinity because it does not state that he was god, but that he existed in the nature of god: divine.

Myxomatosis

(Analytical Literal Translation) who existing in the nature of God, did not consider being equal to God something to be held onto,

(American Standard Version) who, existing in the form of God, counted not the being on an equality with God a thing to be grasped,

(Bible in Basic English) To whom, though himself in the form of God, it did not seem that to take for oneself was to be like God;

(Contemporary English Version) Christ was truly God. But he did not try to remain equal with God.

(King James Version) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Myx: Ok, here's my idea on what it means.

It means Jesus who in NATURE is G-d (who existing in the nature/form/of G-d)

He thought it was not something to be grasped or comprehended on a fundamental intellectual level... (ok?) remember G-d in Hebrew means "being OUTSIDE the World" and here was this little nondescript Hebrew man who spoke the common language Armaic (in the form of a servant) telling people that Ego Eimi Ho Ohn, Or I am the L-RD I am G-d in nature, but before you, you see this man, it is not something for you to understand, and it is not robbery (does not take away from ) the Father. It is something for you to TRUST (Who do you say I am?)

This is basically right there the Orthodox Christian description of Jesus "dual nature" being a man but fully G-d. Immanuel: G-d in the flesh.

He humbled Himself taking upon FLESH but in NATURE He remained G-d...

This is one of those things Class, for example when the JW's or someone brings up the bit where Jesus says "My Father is greater than I" not "I am" He is saying that in position, as He was in the form of a servant, that He was subject to the Father. Notice the Greek word does not denote nature, if it did and Christ said "My Father is BETTER than I" then we'd have a problem.

Ok...was that too long?

sorry! ehhh not so good, but I hope it helped anyways,

love

Myxomatosis

32

The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - Part 1

by Lady Lee in

the subtle power of spiritual abuse .

david johnson & jeff vanvonderen .

1991 bethany house publishers

Myxomatosis

4. Idolatry

The dynamic: The "god" served by the shame-based relationship system is an impossible-to-please judge, obsessing on people's behaviors from a distance, whose mood is dependent on them. It is a god invented to enforce the performance standard and to keep the system intact. This is a false god, or idol. Anything you serve besides God, or anything from which you derive your sense of life, value and acceptance, is an idol. The false gods of the shame-based system are: appearance, or how things look; what people think; power-orientation.

The effects: Distorted image of God; high level of anxiety based on other people or external circumstances; people-pleasing; high need to control thoughts, feelings and behaviors of others in order to gain a sense of well-being."

Wow. I had never thought of it like that....and they say clapping too much for a speaker is idolatry?

It makes me so sad. In fact, this is one of the things that was addressed at this conference my Mum went too. They were saying that any 'god' that seems preoccupied with looking for your faults, petty, and sternly waiting to knock you over the head with his gigantic sceptor if you did something "displeasing" was in fact (satan) or the opposite of the characteristics of G-d. That's what it means in the Hebrew isn't it? Accuser? Always out to accuse and belittle?

I've been talking to my JW friend...and the things that she says...how you need to do what G-d "requires" of you, you need to do this and this...and shame on you from G-d if you do not.

Well, it certainly has had its affect. She's been depressed for many years. She's a self-injurer (cuts herself) She actually told me something that made my heart ache the other day she said after groping for words for sometime "I want to be a different person"

where is the love? where is the joy? where is the peace? This person follows the rules, and accordingly, she should feel she's appeased her judge. apparently not. it's like that (poppytastic) Amy Grant song that I always had playing when I was young "is this all there is? just the letter of the law, somethings wrong..somethings gone in heaven tonight, you can almost hear them cry, angels to the left and the right, saying what about the love, what about the love?"

Do you think she would freak out or become suspiscious if I were to recommend this book to her?

I was thinking of recommending Steve Hassan's "combatting cult mind control" but thought she'd be all defensive "so you think I'm in a cult???"

anyways, I feel such empathy for those who have gone through spiritual abuse on account of a "loving" god.

thanks Lady Lee

Myxomatosis

15

Existing in the nature of God

by ClassAvenger in

i preached to a jw and they used the following verse against me:

phi 2:6

"who existing in the nature of god, did not consider being equal to god something to be held onto," he said that this was one of the texts that disproved the trinity because it does not state that he was god, but that he existed in the nature of god: divine.

Myxomatosis

Class: I preached to a JW and they used the following verse against me: Phi 2:6 "who existing in the nature of God, did not consider being equal to God something to be held onto," He said that this was one of the texts that disproved the Trinity because it does not state that he was God, but that he existed in the nature of God: divine. I was like "???".

haha

ok

thats NWT for sure

Phil 2: 6

"Who, being in VERY NATURE G-D (um the verse he quoted speaks only TO Christ's deity)

did not consider equality with G-d something

TO BE GRASPED,

but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant
being made in human likeness."

Class, ask him about Christ's NAME?

First ask him what a name meant to the Hebrews (hint: the full embodiment of their person)

Then ask Him which name we should be preaching...

Then direct him two verses down to Phil 2:9-11 which even in the NWT tells us what name is above all names, and what NAME Jesus (inherited)

Phil. 2:9-11

"Therefore G-d exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the NAME that IS ABOVE EVERY NAME,

that at the NAME of JESUS every knee should BOW
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the GLORY of G-d the Father."

( G-d does NOT share His glory with another)

Isaiah 48:11

"For my OWN sake, for my own sake, I do this,
How can I let myself be defamed?

I WILL NOT yield my GLORY to ANOTHER."

Psalm 29: 2

"Ascribe to the L-RD the GLORY due his NAME;
worship the L-RD in the splendor of his holiness."

Ask him where the Bible says that MICHAEL was the first creation by God?

Ask him why Jesus could tell off Satan without invoking any name other than his own, but in Jude 1:9

"But EVEN the Archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, Did NOT DARE to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said,

"The L-rd rebuke you!"

Michael doesn't have the stuff? But Jesus does?

Ask Him why after Christ's ascension and taking of power, after the resurrection, we once again find MICHAEL in revelation as a SEPARATE BEING? After being given all authority, after inheriting the name of His FATHER, He is back to Michael in 12:7?

Rev 12:7

"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back."

as with their proofs for michael such as 1 Thess. 4:16

"For the L-rd himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of G-d..."

Ask him if the Bible ever uses descriptives (duh!)

Ask him if this means that Jesus literally also is a "trumpet call of G-d"

or a trumpet ....

Ask him if he knows anything about Biblical exegesis (cos otherwise he could give you alot of crap with the verses that speak of Jesus' humanity)

(explicit interpets implicit)

30

Is the Koran an Inspired Book?

by Happythoughts in

from what i gather--in my opinion--here i go again the book is very negative; it's obsessed with the punishment in the hereafter for the "unbelievers" (an oft cited word in the book) and speaks of them being : chastised in the fire.

" i lost count of the number of times this phrase is used.

the book does not present a loving god--but a vindictive harsh one, more concerned with punishment than life and forgiveness.

Myxomatosis

shit. nothing.

looks like I'm stuck with this plain format *pouts*

thanks though,

Myxomatosis

2

BLISSISIGNORANCE and everyone...

by Myxomatosis in

jw
friends

bliss, hi.

i've read your heartwrenching story on how your children were abused and i'm so sorry for them and yourself!

i wished to share this with you, so that you could come over and give this twat on another mb a piece of your mind (and your story) .

Myxomatosis

Thank you thank you thank you Bliss!!!

But I won't be able to do it in the next few days because, as I posted the other day, I am taking my son to Sydney for the Marylin Manson concert.

Myx: spooky! hope you have a blast!!!

This is a very sensitive issue for myself and MANY others here, so I will take time to think about it and how to respond to these idiots you mention.

Myx: exactly, and that's what pained me when I read his response. I wanted to hang him by his entrails. I must admit I got extremely worked up with my posts on that thread...basically it's a rainbow of caps because I am so outraged by this topic. I was hesitant to ask cos I can't understand the depth of the pain you and your children have suffered, it breaks my heart!! and he as a "christian" just blatantly dismissing the victims over his precious WT was too much for me! If he can't see the suffering and damage inflicted by a story such as yours then he has a heart of solid stone.

So keep an eye on the MB for my post. It will be in the next week or so.

Myx: I definitely will! Looking forward to it! There are a lot of kind people on there, and they won't treat your story lightly.

Until then cheers and thanks again. And wish me luck, driving through Sydney is probably more frightening than any Marylin Manson concert! LMAO

Myx: LOL! good luck!

Myxomatosis

*I wanna fly and and run til it hurts
sleep for a while and speak no words

in Australia*

-Manic street preachers

'Australia'

30

Is the Koran an Inspired Book?

by Happythoughts in

from what i gather--in my opinion--here i go again the book is very negative; it's obsessed with the punishment in the hereafter for the "unbelievers" (an oft cited word in the book) and speaks of them being : chastised in the fire.

" i lost count of the number of times this phrase is used.

the book does not present a loving god--but a vindictive harsh one, more concerned with punishment than life and forgiveness.

Myxomatosis

Guten abend,

True. And, because of that, I avoided the Muslims like the plague only to find out, after I met a few, that they are nice people. The oppression of women (the dress, veil, etc) is a cultural thing. There are many practicing Muslims, particularly in western countries, who do not go in for that nonsense. During prayer, the female and the male Muslims that I have worshiped with wore head coverings.

People forget that there are moderate Muslims as well as the fundies who interpret everything the prophet said in a literal sense. Same as Christians.

Myx: ok

I feel it is more a board for exes to get together, and I'm a bit out of place in that.

All are welcome. What's your background?

Myx: background? erm. I'm only nineteen, female if you didn't know,,,, there's not much of one. Was raised Christian, like never went to church though we lived 20 feet from one. Really really boring...that's pretty much it. I've been studying religion basically egged on by looking up JW's 11 mos. ago on the internet. pretty fascinating. sorry,,,told you it was boring. and what about those smilie faces, Robyn? where do I get em???

luv

Myxomatosis

2

BLISSISIGNORANCE and everyone...

by Myxomatosis in

jw
friends

bliss, hi.

i've read your heartwrenching story on how your children were abused and i'm so sorry for them and yourself!

i wished to share this with you, so that you could come over and give this twat on another mb a piece of your mind (and your story) .

Myxomatosis

Hi there,

Bliss, hi. I've read your heartwrenching story on how your children were abused and I'm so sorry for them and yourself!

I wished to share this with you, so that you could come over and give this twat on another MB a piece of your mind (and your story)

A topic was started on the covering up of abuse scandal in the Watch Tower, and this dumbass had this to say:

"Is this condemnation a little premature?

Why not wait till after the court case, eh?"

and here's something that pissed me off to no end, he ACTUALLY said this:

"It would seem that you have already judged the WT higherups and give the "victims" a free pass."

Myx: gave the "victims" in quotations, as if it's highly suspect when children speak out about their abuse.

"I on the otherhand prefer to hear all of the facts in the case before making a judgement."

Myx: right, he saw the facts, and the judgement one would come to is not in keeping with his idealistic view of a 'spiritual paradise'

I would so appreciate it, as I have aired my thoughts (my UN is 'Myxamatosis') quite extensively on this, if you would share your personal tragedy with him. oohhh gosh I hate him. His username is '1pennyone' and the link to this topic is: http://forums.delphiforums.com/alldebates/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E

if you feel uncomfortable with this please don't.

Oh, and any other exes who want to put a little piss in their vinegar, the two JW's on that board are 'AnotherPaul and 1Pennyone' you should give them a shout out.

the link for this debate forum is; http://forums.delphiforums.com/alldebates/

thanks everyone,

Myxomatosis

30

Is the Koran an Inspired Book?

by Happythoughts in

from what i gather--in my opinion--here i go again the book is very negative; it's obsessed with the punishment in the hereafter for the "unbelievers" (an oft cited word in the book) and speaks of them being : chastised in the fire.

" i lost count of the number of times this phrase is used.

the book does not present a loving god--but a vindictive harsh one, more concerned with punishment than life and forgiveness.

Myxomatosis

Myx,

Why don't you read the Quran first, then talk to a Muslim and then decide? I have.

luvyaback,

Robyn

holy crap that was a fast reply. As to this. Unfortunately, there is not many Moslems (read 0) that I've had the pleasure of running into in person. Though, just recently I've gotten the chance to read on this other MB where I debate knucklehead Jehovah's Witnesses (one who was tracked down, turned in, and lectured in a JC for her internet involvement, one who I just quit talking to after calling him swine, and another who's been one all his life, and simply just won't be moved) but ANYWAYS, there were three who just appeared out of the blue and were quite fiesty, learnt alot from there posts. As to reading the Qu'ran to decide if it is inspired? Trust me, I've learned not to take just the negative side of things.... Though, I don't think in all things one must necessarily read the source to reckon if it is inspired or not. For a good example the Book of Mormon, um, JS was a nutter, he wrote in 16th century english when he was a 19th century american, and everything I know of it, I know is nonsense (no archaeological evidence for the Nephite civilation, the bogus translation of the Egyptian papyrus, etc). Anyways, I don't think I need to go to a kingdom hall and meet practicing Witnesses and read their WT and AWAKE! to know that it's false. And yes, that is from reading "negative" material (aka direct historical quotes). I think sometimes you know when you see the affect it has on peoples lives, like how the Muslim women are oppressed so often times in Moslem countries. Or how the JW parents of an eight year old refused to take her back stating that "she wasn't the same child" after a life saving blood transfusion. Both together kinda seal the punch.

I like to think sort of in philosophical terms about things, it's not the three sound legs that lames the ass, but the broken one, an all that.

btw, how the hell does one get those nifty smilies on this blivvin MB? I can't seem to find them! Oh, and, I would love it if you'd go visit my JW friend on the MB where I'm having a hell of a time talking to him, just to scare him. Just post your experience would be awesome! haha that'd so freak him out. When I first started talking to him, he had to make sure I wasn't a "disgruntled ex" donchaknow in order to protect his spiritual wellbeing (blindness)

Anyways, sorry, I do go on a bit don't I? I don't post as much as I'd like to, cos I don't have time, but mostly because I feel it is more a board for exes to get together, and I'm a bit out of place in that.

30

Is the Koran an Inspired Book?

by Happythoughts in

from what i gather--in my opinion--here i go again the book is very negative; it's obsessed with the punishment in the hereafter for the "unbelievers" (an oft cited word in the book) and speaks of them being : chastised in the fire.

" i lost count of the number of times this phrase is used.

the book does not present a loving god--but a vindictive harsh one, more concerned with punishment than life and forgiveness.

Myxomatosis

Rodbar: This website is just as ignorant of Islam as the JWs are of the Catholics. And just as biased.

Myx: perhaps your right. I myself supplied this because it seems only to me from what I've read in a positive, pro-Muslim light, that this was accurate.

Indeed it does have a Christian slant...so does this site : www.macgregorministries.com have a Christian slant on the teachings of the Watch Tower, can you tell me if what they state about the Watch Tower is inaccurate? As long as it is in context, complete, and what is really stated in their publications, and the personal experiences on islamreview are not fabricated there is no reason to attack it by calling it ignorant.

luv,

Myxomatosis