This is a key ingredient in the Watchtower hold on members. You are pressured to give up friendships with those outside the organization, precisely so you will feel immense pressure to stay in and remain silent, should you ever develope serious doubts or misgivings. It's funny though, how those old friends and relatives that you have abandoned, accept you back with open arms even after years of little or no contact. I guess that's the definition of "true" love.
Posts by 24k
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2WTBTS=relationship thief
by stopthepain in.
how many of you out there have ever wondered "how many people did i never get to meet because of being a witness".. i for one,being raised ina ultra conservative jw family ask myself that.. everytime you missed out on various activities{outside the org},you miss out the chance of meeting great, interesting people.i for one don't have 1 friend left from the religion.so even if i met just 1 person that made a difference in my life,it would have been worth more than all that wasted time.. the wtbts knows what strings to pull to keep you from thinking outside the jw box.they destroy relationships before you could ever imagine begginning one..
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counsel from elders
by bonnzo inhow many have had elder give u this counsel(or if /were an elder given this counsel):
"its come to our attention that u were(fill in space with anything that is up to your own conscience that is ok in wt world such as pg-13 movie, certain music, or choice of entertainmen).
this has offended the conscience of others" then proceeds to counsel u to cease and desist so as to appease the other persons conscience.. isn't this a case of the sensitive conscience forcing me to abide their concience even more so than they claim im offending theirs?
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24k
It allows them to deem some things as conscience decisions that the WTS has not particular stance on. joenobody
I wasn't aware that there was anything that the Watchtower doesn't have a particular stance on.
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Was it worth meeting with the judicial committee?
by 24k infor those of you who met with a judicial committee and were subsequently da'd or df'd, was it worth the time and effort?
did the elders let you speak your piece, or were they only interested in hearing that key word or phrase that would allow them to act?
was there genuine interest shown, proboing questions asked, did they really want to know how you felt?
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24k
For those of you who met with a judicial committee and were subsequently DA'd or DF'd, was it worth the time and effort? Did the elders let you speak your piece, or were they only interested in hearing that key word or phrase that would allow them to act? Was there genuine interest shown, proboing questions asked, did they really want to know how you felt? Did you get any satisfaction out of openly expressing your true feelings to representatives of the orginazation?
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need to vent - just got off phone with mom
by jaredg inman i hate the predicament that this religion has put me in.
i love my mom so much and to hear her cry is the worst thing in the world.
it's so frustrating when she thinks that things are so bad b/c i'm dfd.
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24k
Hang in there jardg!
I'm not saying that your mother is a manipulator, I'm sure she loves you deeply, but this is classic manipulation behavior. Trying to change a person's actions and beliefs through guilt and the withholding of affection is the definition of manipulation. It is also how the Watchtower portrays God, and so it is no surprise that Watchtower adherents have no qualms about treating those they love in this fashion. It will be an uphill battle for you, but one worth fighting. With God's help, and your continued love and kindness, you might be surprised at what transpires. Just seeing you lead a happy, fulfilling life outside the Watchtower says more than any amount of arguing or reasoning could.
Christian Love,
Kirk
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Do you find any value in attending the occaisonal meeting?
by 24k indo you still attend the occaisonal meeting with your believing family members?
if so, do you find any value in what's presented?
i still attend the occaisonal sunday meeting with my believing wife in an effort to show my respect for her feelings and my willingness to be tolerant.
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24k
24K -- How long as your spouse been a JW? Did you come from a JW background? Is your spouse aware that there is a wealth of information about the Society that's on the Web? Have you shared any of that with her? Java
My wife and I were both raised Jehovah's Witnesses, and she is aware of the information that's available out here. Unfortunately, she's unwilling to open up and examine it with an open mind. Watchtower indoctrination runs deep, and she feels much of the information that is available is heavily biased or flat out false.
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Do you find any value in attending the occaisonal meeting?
by 24k indo you still attend the occaisonal meeting with your believing family members?
if so, do you find any value in what's presented?
i still attend the occaisonal sunday meeting with my believing wife in an effort to show my respect for her feelings and my willingness to be tolerant.
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24k
I hope that's helpful. Java
This is something I struggle with every day and a good point to contemplate. I do wonder if going is actually counterproductive.
but wonder what does your JW spouse do to show respect for YOUR feelings? Java
Really, nothing. As you know, no compromise can ever be made unless I'm the one making it. This is, of course, very unhealthy for a relationship. But, I'm sure most everyone here has struggled with this issue.
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Do you find any value in attending the occaisonal meeting?
by 24k indo you still attend the occaisonal meeting with your believing family members?
if so, do you find any value in what's presented?
i still attend the occaisonal sunday meeting with my believing wife in an effort to show my respect for her feelings and my willingness to be tolerant.
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24k
If anything, you come away knowing less than you went in with. It would be like attending a regular series of science seminars by the Young Earth Society. AlmostAtheist
I'm still laughing at that one! It's so true it's scary.
Maybe you could get a bit of value by noting a particularly egregious point made and asking your wife to explain it? AlmostAtheist
We've had some pretty wild conversations during the meetings. I often wonder what everyone around us is thinking when they see this very intense and animated whispering going on, both of us pointing at our bibles and clearly arguing. Of course, I'm pointing things out in my pagan NIV version, the use of which raises eyebrows anyway.
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Do you find any value in attending the occaisonal meeting?
by 24k indo you still attend the occaisonal meeting with your believing family members?
if so, do you find any value in what's presented?
i still attend the occaisonal sunday meeting with my believing wife in an effort to show my respect for her feelings and my willingness to be tolerant.
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24k
Do you still attend the occaisonal meeting with your believing family members? If so, do you find any value in what's presented?
I still attend the occaisonal Sunday meeting with my believing wife in an effort to show my respect for her feelings and my willingness to be tolerant. I have to admit though, I find absolutely no spiritual value in going. The focus is constantly on what works you need to perform to be saved, and how the Watchtower is the only source of information on these works. Salvation is, by extension, through Christ Jesus, but only after one has embarked on the Watchtower bible study plan. Even the NWT translation of John 17:3 is indicative of this mind set, "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you..." Actually, the phrasing here in the original greek donates "knowing" God, not "taking in knowledge", as in studying scriptures or some sectarian publications. Most other translations make this clear. But, I digress. The point I'm trying to make is, if you are not a practicing JW, the meetings are very difficult to get any comfort or solice from. It's like attending a "how to" meeting on getting back into God's good graces without the grace. Not to mention the constant self aggrandizing the Watchtower does. It's hard for me to get passed all of this and squeeze some tidbit of value from attending. I guess the old expression that "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip" is appropriate here... I wonder about blood fractions though?
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How long can you be a non-person?
by 24k into shed some light on the above question, i will need to give some backround.
3 years ago, i stopped serving as an elder in my local congregation.
i have not regularly attended meetings for more than 2 years and i have not participated in the door to door work for about the same length of time.
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24k
Thank you all for your kind words. Sometimes I think that being in this state of limbo, out of the Watchtower mentally but not openly, makes matters worse. Instead of seeing a person move on to a good and healthy life outside of the Organization, they see a spiritually weak person barely making any meetings, not studying (at least Watchtower material), and not preaching to others. They see the seeming selfishness of a man who won't attend meetings with his wife and children. They see the constant family tension brought on by deep spiritual disagreements. They see everything but the man they used to know, because that man cannot tell them why he feels the way he does and why he can no longer do the things mentioned above in good conscience. The most frustrating part is that they don't seem to want to know. Not one elder that I served with on the local body has ever sat down or invited me to sit down to discuss how I feel. Maybe no one ever will.
That's why I think it's probably time to close this chapter on my life and move on. Maybe then, I will be able to say with my life what I am unable to say with my lips.
I just re-read what I wrote, WHAT A RANT!! Sorry. I'll try to be more coherent in the future.
XBEHERE: I'd love to chat some time. Just let me know when and where.
Thanks so much guys :-)
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How long can you be a non-person?
by 24k into shed some light on the above question, i will need to give some backround.
3 years ago, i stopped serving as an elder in my local congregation.
i have not regularly attended meetings for more than 2 years and i have not participated in the door to door work for about the same length of time.
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24k
To shed some light on the above question, I will need to give some backround. 3 years ago, I stopped serving as an elder in my local congregation. I have not regularly attended meetings for more than 2 years and I have not participated in the door to door work for about the same length of time. My family, including my wife, are all still devout members of the Watchtower. I do have several family members, including my brother and father, who are disfellowshipped.
My reasons for doubting, and in essence leaving, the Watchtower are many. I won't bore you with the details, suffice to say that they are deeply felt, well researched, and sincere. I do not try to hinder my wife or other family members in performing what they feel to be their God assigned work (attending meetings, going in field service, etc). And I try to respect their feelings by not constantly bringing up objections to their faith and to the teachings of the Watchtower. I have even attended a few Sunday meetings in an effort to show appreciation for my wife's feelings. However, this effort is not reciprocated in any way. My feelings are not respected and no compromise is ever, or will ever, be made with me. No thought is given to the fact that my feelings are sincere, or that I have done any real research on these matters. When my wife and I discuss religious issues, she speaks to me as if I had never been a Witness and am unfamiliar with their teachings.
I'm just wondering how long I can keep this up. How long can I continue to be a non-person, hiding my real feelings and never getting on with my life? I don't wish to play the role of the "weak witness" for the rest of my days. By the same token, I truly love my wife and her family and don't wish to alienate them by getting disfellowshipped. I guess there is no easy answer.
Thanks for listening to my rant. I would appreciate your thoughts and comments, especially those of you in the same boat.