Posts by 24k

19

Feeling Discouraged About The Future Of My Marraige

by 24k in

jw
friends

for those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna.

i was raised as one of jehovah's witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty.

a few years ago, i began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the watchtower.

24k

Sorry for the double post, but I couldn't find it when I first tried to post, so I did it again. I stiil can't get it to come up under "friends", oh well.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

my wife and i both agree that there is just nothing of significance for an apostate and a jw to have together; my love for her transcends jehovah, her love for jehovah transcends me; it's not a two-way relationship

Well said tetrapod. I guess one of the hardest things to come to terms with, is the idea that we really may no longer have anything in common. When all this first starts to transpire, you try to rationalize that you can pull some common interests out of the fire, and build a relationship on those. It's like your still, in a sense, blinded by the propaganda of the Watchtower, thinking that you have a normal life and a normal relationship with your spouse. Once outside, you realize that almost every aspect of your lives, and marriage, and future plans, is wrapped up in the teachings and activities of the society. If you're no longer going to participate in those activities, or adhere to those teachings, the very foundation upon which you built your relationship is undermined. It's like you have to start from scratch, but maybe your partner doesn't want to be married to a non-witness. And so, maybe without even knowing it, they build an insurmountable wall, and shut you out of whole sections of their lives. Again, not a partnership.

Anyway their first marriage to a minesterial servant will go tits up, and you can be there at the second mariage to a really decent 'worldly' man who will bring true happiness. ; (experience)

Thanks kattiekitten, LOL! It would be a lot funnier if it wasn't so true.

I'd say, with your new status, it might be a good idea to lay out ground rules. This idea that it your daughters will grow up and not invite you to their wedding needs to be addressed now. If you let wife think that is an okay idea, you will have no place in their life very soon, because she will groom them to think of her father as a dead assyrian strapped to their backs.

This is a problem I struggle with all the time. How do you impart balance to your children in such an intolerant enviroment? I don't know if it is even possible. It goes back to the idea of marriage, and parenthood, being a partnership, and it can't be just one person doing the compromising. If I am the enemy, than all is truly lost. No relationship can have that as its basis. I don't mean to sound so pessimistic, but it's been a long journey.

6

Feeling discouraged about the future of my marriage

by 24k in

jw
friends

for those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna.

i was raised as one of jehovah's witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty.

a few years ago, i began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the watchtower.

24k

Sorry for the double post, but I couldn't find it when I first tried to post, so I did it again. I stiil can't get it to come up under "friends", oh well.

Thanks everyone for your replies.

my wife and i both agree that there is just nothing of significance for an apostate and a jw to have together; my love for her transcends jehovah, her love for jehovah transcends me; it's not a two-way relationship

Well said tetrapod. I guess one of the hardest things to come to terms with, is the idea that we really may no longer have anything in common. When all this first starts to transpire, you try to rationalize that you can pull some common interests out of the fire, and build a relationship on those. It's like your still, in a sense, blinded by the propaganda of the Watchtower, thinking that you have a normal life and a normal relationship with your spouse. Once outside, you realize that almost every aspect of your lives, and marriage, and future plans, is wrapped up in the teachings and activities of the society. If you're no longer going to participate in those activities, or adhere to those teachings, the very foundation upon which you built your relationship is undermined. It's like you have to start from scratch, but maybe your partner doesn't want to be married to a non-witness. And so, maybe without even knowing it, they build an insurmountable wall, and shut you out of whole sections of their lives. Again, not a partnership.

19

Feeling Discouraged About The Future Of My Marraige

by 24k in

jw
friends

for those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna.

i was raised as one of jehovah's witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty.

a few years ago, i began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the watchtower.

24k

For those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna. I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty. A few years ago, I began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the Watchtower. So began a long process of study and withdraw from, first service, then assemblies, and finally meetings. Along the way, I stepped down as an elder of course. I was doing my best to fade, but was finally officially disassociated a few weeks ago. I knew the announcement would bring added strain to an already strained marriage. Well, this morning, my wife's parents came over to pick my wife and our two children up for the assembly. I was getting ready to grab one of the kids to take them downstairs, when my wife said that there was no need for me to go down, as she could take care of it. I knew she didn't want me to go down and make her parents feel awkward, but it still hurt when she said it. After a few minutes of sitting at the computer, I thought, this is my house too! If they don't want to eat with me, or go on vacation with me, fine, but I will not allow them to come into my home and pretend I don't exist. So, I went downstairs only to be ignored by my wife's sister and father, not even a hello. To her mom's credit, she at least aknowledged me.

The truly difficult part of all this, is that my wife basically agrees with this behavior. In fact, when we were discussing the repercussions of my disassociation, my wife was in agreement with the idea that, should I remain in my present status, it would be perfectly proper that my daughters not have me attend their wedding. I know I'm rambling a bit here, but I'm not sure how a person can have a marriage under these circumstances. How can two people share a life together, where one of them is the enemy, worthy of such shunning by even close family? How can you have a partnership when one person refuses to have anything to do with the other persons life, beyond the practical necessities of living under the same roof? I love my wife very much, and I certainly don't want to throw our marriage away. I just can't see anyway to build a life together under these circumstances.

I know many of you have faced a similar situation. What, if anything, were you able to do? Are there any success stories out there? Is my marriage doomed?

Feeling blue,

Kirk

6

Feeling discouraged about the future of my marriage

by 24k in

jw
friends

for those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna.

i was raised as one of jehovah's witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty.

a few years ago, i began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the watchtower.

24k

For those of you who may not be familiar with my story, a little history may help clarify my dilemna. I was raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, pioneered, became a ministerial servant, married a pioneer, and then became an elder, all before the age of thirty. A few years ago, I began to have serious doubts about the teachings and religious system established by the Watchtower. So began a long process of study and withdraw from, first service, then assemblies, and finally meetings. Along the way, I stepped down as an elder of course. I was doing my best to fade, but was finally officially disassociated a few weeks ago. I knew the announcement would bring added strain to an already strained marriage. Well, this morning, my wife's parents came over to pick my wife and our two children up for the assembly. I was getting ready to grab one of the kids to take them downstairs, when my wife said that there was no need for me to go down, as she could take care of it. I knew she didn't want me to go down and make her parents feel awkward, but it still hurt when she said it. After a few minutes of sitting at the computer, I thought, this is my house too! If they don't want to eat with me, or go on vacation with me, fine, but I will not allow them to come into my home and pretend I don't exist. So, I went downstairs only to be ignored by my wife's sister and father, not even a hello. To her mom's credit, she at least aknowledged me.

The truly difficult part of all this, is that my wife basically agrees with this behavior. In fact, when we were discussing the repercussions of my disassociation, my wife was in agreement with the idea that, should I remain in my present status, it would be perfectly proper that my daughters not have me attend their wedding. I know I'm rambling a bit here, but I'm not sure how a person can have a marriage under these circumstances. How can two people share a life together, where one of them is the enemy, worthy of such shunning by even close family? How can you have a partnership when one person refuses to have anything to do with the other persons life, beyond the practical necessities of living under the same roof? I love my wife very much, and I certainly don't want to throw our marriage away. I just can't see anyway to build a life together under these circumstances.

I know many of you have faced a similar situation. What, if anything, were you able to do? Are there any success stories out there? Is my marriage doomed?

Feeling blue,

Kirk

28

How are your marriages fairing after leaving?

by 24k in

jw
friends

just a little bit about myself before you answer:

i was raised a jehovah's witness by my mother, who got "the truth" by studying with inlaws who were already members.

my father had been disfellewshipped for joining the army a few years before i was born, and has nevered returned to the organization.

24k

Just a little bit about myself before you answer:

I was raised a Jehovah's Witness by my mother, who got "the truth" by studying with inlaws who were already members. My father had been disfellewshipped for joining the army a few years before I was born, and has nevered returned to the organization. I never took the religion seriously until my late teen years, when I began searching for some stability and acceptance in my life. My dad and mom were divorced when I was sixteen, and needless to say, things were pretty hectic in a single mother household. My mom and dad were so busy trying to survive their own lives, they didn't have much energy left for guiding the lives of myself or my sibilings. My mom did her best, and the one thing she did impart to me, was a real love for God. Unfortunately, she also exposed me to her new found faith as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Since I loved God, and since I knew I wanted to please him, it seemed to make sense that the only way to do that, was to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses. After all, my mother and most of my family were saying so. Even my father would comment that, while he couldn't live that way, if any religion had the truth, it was Jehovah's Witnesses. So, I began my career as a member.

I served for several years as a pioneer, ministerial servant, and finally for seven years as an elder. At 19, I married my wife, who along with her family, continue to serve as devout Jehovah's Witnesses. After almost two decades of marriage, we brought into the world, two beautiful daughters. My wife and I love each other very much, and of course we adore our children.

Now, the problem. A little over five years ago, while I was still serving as an elder, I began to have serious reservations about some of the teachings and policies of the organization. I won't go into detail now, but suffice to say, I struggled with these doubts and concerns for almost two years. Finally, one late night, after a particularly difficult judicial case, I was so distraught and emotionally exhausted by, not only the case, but my own crisis of faith, that I got down on my knees and begged God to help me understand what was happening to me. For the first time, I prayed for him to reveal himself to me regardless of where it lead. I began to read the bible, trying hard to let it speak without any preconceived notions about what it should say. What I found, was that it didn't always agree with what I had been taught, and what I had been teaching myself. I found that many doctrinal issues that I thought were slam dunks, were not so easy to explain in context. I found apparent contradictions and passages which seemed hard to reconcile with a God of love. I found that, in some areas, the bible is quite vague, no matter how hard you try to find definitive answers. Now that I was determined to read the scriptures without bias, I was no longer satisfied with answering these difficult issues by playing them off as misunderstandings, or points needing further clarification. I began reading everything I could find about the bible, faith, and religion. The latter included material from former Jehovah's Witnesses.

Needless to say, my faith in the watchtower was shaken to the core, and finally dashed. It was like Dorothy finding out the Wizard of Oz was just an old man behind a curtain. I didn't come to hate the organization, but I did come to resent all the wasted years and the continued ill treatment of those who would disagree with its teachings.

Which finally brings me to the subject of this post. Have those of you who are married to JW's, been able to find happiness in your relationships in spite of your religious differences. Have you been able to overcome the feeling that you are the enemy, tolerated and humored, but never accepted for who you really are? How about how you raise your children? Will your wife attend dinners or events with you at the homes of your worldly friends? I guess I'm asking, can you ever have a real partnership with one in and one out?

Sorry if this post seems ranting. I've left so much out, but I didn't want to bore you to tears.

Thanks for your help...

3

How do you deal with the constant strain?

by 24k in

jw
friends

just last night, i had a jw relative visit from out of town.

while dropping him off at his nightly accomadations, a drive of only about five minutes, he, of course, took the time to inquire about my lack of meeting attendance, my use of the niv bible, and my recent trip to a promise keepers convention.

with such a short drive ahead, i didn't really want to get into a long discussion, so i tried to keep it brief and non-confrontational.

24k

Just last night, I had a JW relative visit from out of town. While dropping him off at his nightly accomadations, a drive of only about five minutes, he, of course, took the time to inquire about my lack of meeting attendance, my use of the NIV bible, and my recent trip to a Promise Keepers convention. With such a short drive ahead, I didn't really want to get into a long discussion, so I tried to keep it brief and non-confrontational. I simply explained that I did not share the Watchtower view, that most members of other religions cannot possibly have God's approval and blessing. That my personal experience lead me to appreciate the deep spiritual devotion that many people of varying religions possess. It was shortly after this that we arrived at our destination, and my relative exited the car. As he was leaving, he seemed as though he had more to say, so I invited him to give me a call later that evening if he wanted to talk. His exact words were, "I've heard all I need to know, that's the problem." I don't know if it was the way he said it, or the fact that I have been dealing with being a second class citizen among my family for so long, but his statment really hurt me. It was an emotional slam dunk!

6

Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New

by 24k in

has anyone heard of the gentleman who wrote the above titled book.

among other things, he claims the new world translation is the most accurate translation available today.

the author is jason david beduhn, an associate professor of religious studies.

24k

Has anyone heard of the gentleman who wrote the above titled book. Among other things, he claims the New World Translation is the most accurate translation available today. The author is Jason David BeDuhn, an associate professor of religious studies. His credentials are sound (among them, an M.T.S. in New Testament and Christian Origins from Harvard Divinity School and a Ph.D. in the Comparative Study of Religions--his first book won the "Best First Book" prize from the American Academy of Religion). I had some one send me a link to the book. I find his conclusion hard to believe in lite of the statements of many other scholars.

18

Well... I'm busted this time

by 24k in

jw
friends

i think i may have just precipitated my exit from the watchtower a little sooner than i expected.

i was really looking forward to attending easter services at a local church today, and so made arrangements to ride with a friend of mine and his wife.

my friend is a recently disfellowshiped former fellow elder.

24k

Thanks again everyone for the encouragement.

I gave you suggestions based on your concern for her happines and for the love you stated your had for her, "I love my wife more than anything..." After reading your 2nd post I can see you obviously don't love her more than anything. That's your choice.

Flash, I'm not sure what in my second post would lead you to conclude I do not love my wife more than anything.

18

Well... I'm busted this time

by 24k in

jw
friends

i think i may have just precipitated my exit from the watchtower a little sooner than i expected.

i was really looking forward to attending easter services at a local church today, and so made arrangements to ride with a friend of mine and his wife.

my friend is a recently disfellowshiped former fellow elder.

24k

Thanks for the quick responses everyone.

Since this is the case. I would 'Play the game.' Yes, they'll be a JC on this, so be repentent, take your lumps and be 'good boy' for awhile (for her sake) then fade again. And since your love for her is this deep...stay away from those who are DF'd and other religions.

The cost to "play the game" is far to high. It is a relinquishing of all that makes you an individual. Think of what you are asking me to do Flash. Your saying that I should meet with a judicail commitee whoes authority I do not recognize. That I should lie to said committee and pretend to have feelings of remorse for sins I have not committed. All "for the sake" of showing my wife that I am willing to be dishonest to avoid the consequences of my sincerely held beliefs. This, of course, would call into question those beliefs. Than "fade again", constantly in fear of someone else catching me attending church, or associating with dear friends who are no longer JW's. And let's not forget curtailing association with anyone not a JW.

18

Well... I'm busted this time

by 24k in

jw
friends

i think i may have just precipitated my exit from the watchtower a little sooner than i expected.

i was really looking forward to attending easter services at a local church today, and so made arrangements to ride with a friend of mine and his wife.

my friend is a recently disfellowshiped former fellow elder.

24k

I think I may have just precipitated my exit from the Watchtower a little sooner than I expected. I was really looking forward to attending Easter services at a local church today, and so made arrangements to ride with a friend of mine and his wife. My friend is a recently disfellowshiped former fellow elder. My wife's parents (both devout JW's, the father is an elder) were coming to pick her up for the meeting this morning to help with our two little ones. They usually arrive around 10 minutes to 9:00 or there abouts, so I had my friend come to pick me up around 8:30. Of course, my inlaws were earlier, and saw me, bible in hand and dressed in my Sunday best, get in the car to go to church. Needless to say, it was a very awkward moment. My family and inlaws have known about my feelings regarding the Watchtower for quite some time, but I don't see how my father-in-law will be able to overlook this one. I'm certain he will feel compelled to inform the rest of the body about what happened this morning.

I feel really bad for my wife, as this whole disagreement with the Watchtower, stepping down as an elder, and not attending meetings has been very difficult for her to deal with already. Now add the social strain of no more family gatherings, vacations, or dinners, and it becomes rather overwhelming to bear. Our spiritual life, which was always a big part of our relationship, is almost nonexistent, save for the more and more infrequent fights over doctrines and JW teachings. Take away the social contact with our family, and what's left? I love my wife more than anything, and this constant anguish and uncertainty about the future is a crushing weight. I wish those who want to claim that the Watchtower is nothing more than another misguided religion, harmless and benign, would consider the overwhelming damage it does to families like mine. All because I can no longer adhere to their sectarian dogma.

This is the most discouraged I have felt in a long time. Sory if this post is a little disjointed. I can provide details later.