Posts by Magnum

43

Remind re: The "Cult" Label

by Simon in

if you accuse people of being stuck in jw mindset or "cult-like" mentality simply because someone has a different view of politics than you, you'll be deleted.. it's insulting and a lazy substitute for having any real argument for a proper debate.. what next ... "you smell" ?.

Magnum

Jehalapeno:

all the same things can be said about the anti-Trump crowd

Very good point. Reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my mother. She would inevitably resort to "You always think you're right!", which is simply an ad hominem attack; it is not a logical substantive argument that could/should aid one in winning an argument or debate. And, similar to what you said, I could say the same thing about her, and I did.

Here's almost word for word what would result after she said such:

Magnum: [said slowly and deliberately] OK, well, let me see. We're arguing now, and in this argument, do you think you're right?

Mama Magnum: [said reluctantly] Yes.

Magnum: And in the last argument we had, did you think you were right?

Mama Magnum: Yeah

Magnum: In fact, in every argument we've ever had, you thought you were right, or we wouldn't have been arguing. Isn't that right?

Mama Magnum: [reluctantly] Yeah.

Magnum: Well, then, why do you state that I always think I'm right as if there's something wrong with that when the exact same thing can justifiably be said about you?

When it's obvious that she sees the point, she changes the subject and yells: "Quit playing lawyer with me!"

I respond with "First, what does "playing lawyer" mean and second, why is it wrong? [pause] If you mean that I'm being logical and demanding evidence, then why should I quit doing that? Do you want me to stop because I'm being logical and showing how wrong you are? Do you want us to just have a free-for-all, unstructured yelling match which leads nowhere and is not constructive?"

It is hopeless to argue with her. She actually lacks the intellect, the comprehension, the knowledge, the composure, the honesty, etc. to be able to argue in a logical, honest manner. She would be thrown out of a courtroom by any qualified judge.

I've read or heard the words of many of those who resort to the "Trump followers = cult" argument, but, as you wrote, the words could simply be reversed on them.

I could refer to the "anti-Trump cult". They are blindly rabid in their hate for Trump and simply want him removed from office. Ask them what their platform is, what their agenda is, what they're going to do, how they're going to fix things or make them better, and you get a deer-in-headlights look.

I could refer to "the Obama cult". I saw people literally crying over him, almost slobbering over him, and they had no clue as to what he was going to do, but they loved them some Obama.

I actually don't think I could honestly refer to a "Biden Cult" because I think that Dems don't really like Biden; I think a lot of them actually hate him. Do you think AOC loves the old white man Biden? Do you think all the blacks and far lefties who voted Dem love Biden? I don't; I think they detest him. I think they were voting anti-Trump, anti-conservative, pro-Biden handlers, pro-Kamala. I think they just want their foot in the door, hoping ole white man Joe will kick the bucket or go 100% senile (instead of just the 97% he already is) and be removed so Kamala can step in. [Actually, I don't really think it's senility; I think he's just an airhead and always has been.]

Main point: Referring to conservatives as "the cult of Trump" or similar is simply an ad hominem attack and the argument could be reversed on them. However, arguments in which such tactics are used are for weak people - people who lack intellect and/or knowledge.

13

Its not my fault

by incognito2014 in

assume for a minute that god created everything.

there was nothing before him and everything is because of him.

every single thing in the universe he is directly responsible for.. somehow the good stuff we should thank him for but the bad stuff is nothing to do with him, it is our fault.. this world that he created that was “good” has turned in to a right shitshow but despite being absolutely responsible for it from start to finish it is not his fault and in fact he has somehow turned this round so that instead of being to blame he is the person who is going to sort the problems and we should be thankful..

Magnum

Sea Breeze, I think the "problem of evil" is bigger than just the bad produced by the free will of humans. What about all the horror and suffering in the animal realm? I know there is a lot of it caused by humans, but I'm referring to that which has nothing to do with humans. What about all the horror and suffering that occurred in the animal realm before humans appeared on earth?

19

My new definition of cult.

by Yomama in

jw
friends

forcing someone to believe something that is untrure and shunning them if they do not believe it.

Magnum

pistolpete:

Why I didn't follow their course? I think it may have to do with the fact that I grew up with the internet.

Yeah, I hear you and that certainly seems reasonable. I think that would have been a gamechanger for me. It wasn't until my early twenties (early 1980s) that I really started questioning/challenging JWdom (the organization as a whole) and JWism (the religion or the doctrinal part of JWdom). I had no internet and couldn't at the time even conceive of such. It's really amazing how much technology has changed since then. I only had a physical World Book Encyclopedia set at my house. I lived in a rural area, and the closest library was about 25 minutes away. I did go there a few times and look up stuff, but it was such a slow process. I had to look in a physical card catalog for various published info, go find the referenced item on shelves, and them thumb through pages to find the info. I was limited to copies of books and other publications at that particular library.

I don't remember when I really started using the internet... maybe late 90's? I remember hearing warnings about apostate info and other anti-JW info maybe even as early as mid-90's. At any rate, I was scared at first to look up JW-related stuff. I think it was around 2005 or maybe a little later that I began to gradually peek at anti-JW stuff, and gradually the scales came off my eyes.

I believe that if I had had the internet when I was first challenging and before I got baptized, I would have felt that it was OK to explore what others had to say because I wasn't yet committed. And... with all the information that the internet would have made available to me, I would never have gotten baptized and would have been spared a life of misery.

JWdom loves the darkness just as criminals do. They love it because they can do things under cover and not be exposed. JWdom loved the dark days before the light of the internet. The internet brought a great light that shone brightly on JWdom and pointed out its wrongs, its deception, its weakness, its lunacy, its hypocrisy, etc. If JWdom were the truth-loving, superhuman-backed entity it claims to be, it would love the light and exposure.

I'm glad you had the internet and didn't lose your life. If only I had been born two decades later.....

19

My new definition of cult.

by Yomama in

jw
friends

forcing someone to believe something that is untrure and shunning them if they do not believe it.

Magnum

Drearyweather, I really appreciate your kind, humble words. Damn, I feel bad now for making you feel bad. Sorry. No problems at all. Wish you the best, too. I'm just really mad at JWdom, and sometimes I might get too forceful with my words. I'm really not a hard person. I'm reasonable and caring. It might seem otherwise at times; I realize that.

Again, thanks for your last post.

19

My new definition of cult.

by Yomama in

jw
friends

forcing someone to believe something that is untrure and shunning them if they do not believe it.

Magnum

Drearyweather:

I chose to become a JW (no one forced me)

If someone points a gun at you and tells you to leave a certain place. Were you forced to leave? Of course, you were. Well, nobody pointed a gun at me and told me to become a JW; JWs did worse than that. From the time I was a small child, they showed me graphic depictions of people being destroyed in violent ways in a supposed upcoming end of the world. I was taught that the death I would receive at that time due to not being a JW would be worse than death from a gunshot because it would be permanent. Where I grew up, we often had violent thunder/lightning/wind storms. My sister and I got scared and hid under tables during such because we thought Armageddon might have arrived.

When I got older, my motivation to become a JW broadened to include not only fear, but a genuine desire to see earthwide justice and an end to all suffering. I really cared about warning/helping others. I also was desperate to see an end to animal suffering.

So, I was taught (indoctrinated/brainwashed) from an early age that being a JW was the only way. I was taught that I would be killed (literally) if I didn't go that way. So, I think it's fair to say I was forced.

And another thing... I hate to hear people say, when I complain about the situation I'm in now due to having been a JW for decades, that I shouldn't complain because I chose my course in life. My own mother told me that. I was comparing my situation to a friend who was in my first grade class and that I've known ever since. He was not very smart book-wise (decent common sense, though). He went to college and got a degree with an easy major and then a master's degree in public administration at a small college (extremely easy).

He got a job as a state probation officer and then a year or two later, as a federal probation officer. He made really good money, had great government benefits, and retired at 54 with what he called "a great retirement". He never lifted a finger to help anybody and was very tight with money. His wife also has a great retirement; she was a specialist RN. They now live lives of leisure. My wife and I suffered and sacrificed for decades as JWs and will never be able to retire. We both work fulltime now and have low paying jobs with no retirement opportunities.

When I referred to this friend in complaining to my mother, she said "Well, he chose his life and you chose yours." That is LUDICROUS!!!. I DID NOT CHOOSE THE LIFE I HAVE NOW. I CHOSE THE LIFE THAT JWS PROMISED ME I WOULD HAVE BY NOW (actually that I should have been enjoying for at least 27 years now, considering that 1994 was the limit of the "generation" doctrine of the time).

It is stupid to say that I chose the life I have now as if when I was younger I sat around and thought "OK, let's see, when I get older, I want to have to work a low-paying, menial job; I don't want to be retired. I don't want to have any money. I don't want to be like my crazy friends who can wake up when they want and drink coffee and travel and never worry about finances or health insurance. Who would want that?"

Here's an illustration for illustration-loving JWs: You go to your doctor. He tells you that something is wrong with your right arm and that if you don't have it cut off, you will die soon. So you decide to have your arm cut off based on what you were told the future holds if you don't. After your arm is cut off, you find out that the doctor was wrong and that there was nothing wrong with your arm. You go to him and address the issue. He says "Hey, don't complain. You made the choice to have your arm cut off; I didn't force you."

Hopefully, the point is clear. Of course, you made the choice, but it wasn't just some easy, frivolous choice. It was a serious choice BASED ON WHAT HE (THE DOCTOR) TOLD YOU! You were given two options: Keep your arm and die soon or cut off your arm and live to old age. You weren't given the option to keep your arm and live to old age.

I was brainwashed and indoctrinated as a JW to choose between two options: Be a JW and live forever in paradise by, at the latest, 1994, or not be a JW and have a little while longer to live (maybe a few years or even a few months).

I did not choose the life I have now. I hate it and it slaps me in the face every damned day. I chose the life JWs promised me from infancy. JWs were wrong. I cut my damned arm off for nothing.

Rather than blaming the WT, it's just that I am reaping the results of my choices

I blame the shit out of JWdom, and I hate it. It took the prime of my life and has destroyed what would be my "golden years". I wish the worst for it, and if I find a way, I will contribute to its exposure and demise. I would like to literally open a can of whip-ass on the GB members, and I honestly believe that even at my age (60ish), I could take on all eight at one time.

I'm reaping the results of their falsehoods, their lies and deception, their evil, their lunacy.

3

I'm back

by Gma-return in

jw
friends

i haven't been around for a couple of years.

life got complicated but i'm still an ex-jw i lost my husband 2 years ago from cancer.

ill add more sometime.

Magnum

Oh, Wow! I remember gma-tired2. Glad you're back.

31

Why Is The Press Suddenly Exposing The Biden Family?

by minimus in

jw
friends

the new york post published how hunter biden was involved with many criminal activities.

they showed how big daddy biden was well aware of what was going on.

the post got called out for this “ non story “.

Magnum

I just heard last night on TV (don't know whom to trust anymore, though) that a significant percentage of those who voted for Biden wouldn't have if they had known about the Biden family bad stuff. The election was close, so their knowing probably would have changed the outcome.

14

Do not fellowship with greedy drunkards

by road to nowhere in

jw
friends

pounding the disfellowship crap this week.

that nnea3n we should avoid the drunk on the gb and ignore the pleas for money?.

Magnum

GreatTeacher, that was damn funny!

39

ExElder Friend Had To Go To His Former Kingdom Hall and this what he told me!

by minimus in

jw
friends

he was the secretary before he resigned years ago.

he has a business that kept him involved with the kingdom hall.

the hall was sold to another church.

Magnum

I wonder if their situation is more dire than we realize. They are ready to just drop everything and run away.

Interesting. They're probably inundated with stuff against them - lawsuits, potential lawsuits, disgruntled old-timers asking them tough questions, financial issues, etc. We might only be aware of a small sample of what they face. Maybe they do see the writing on the wall and are making preparations for some kind of exit strategy. Remember what was said during that recent broadcast about the lights being turned off, no more broadcasting, etc.?

I don't know, but it's interesting to watch. If they are planning to drop everything and run away, I wonder why they're working on new projects (Aren't they building new studios or something like that?).

28

I miss old posters!

by Biahi in

jw
friends

blondie, flipper, shirley w, where are you?

did this site get too republican for you?

i just take those threads with a grain of salt..

Magnum

Biahi:

I’m here to find out what’s latest in dubland, since my mom is still in. Also, I want to see them fall. When they inevitably will. I want to see the Governing Body in prison, for hiding pedos.

Me, too!

I think we don't see deeper discussions about JW stuff much anymore because JWdom is no longer deep. It has become less and less analytical because it got its butt kicked and is now playing it safe. As some have said, JWdom is morphing into a non-analytical mega church that focuses on feel-good stuff and lifestyle vs doctrine.

A lot of the discussions have focused on politics because, it seems, a lot of us are more affected by that now than we are JWdom. Also, the JW situation is sort of in the doldrums now - nothing really exciting going on - just slowly sailing along or dead in the water.

A few years ago, there were a lot deeper discussions here about JWdom because it was making changes and going places that we would never have thought possible a few years earlier. It was becoming something that those of us who were around in the 70's & 80's would have never imagined it would.

I think as the political situation dies down, the discussions will turn to JWdom again. Also, I believe the wind will pick back up. I believe we will see some interesting stuff related to JWdom in the near future. Is the pressure from disappointed/disgruntled JWs building up behind the scenes? Will it reach a point at which the pressure will become too high? Will JWdom become an exclusively e-religion? Will it collapse completely? We'll see.

There is actually still a lot to discuss about JWdom. I have a list of about ten interesting topics been wanting to post; just haven't been able to find time.

And, I miss the old posters, too.